Amazon Question
- Thread starter Kool69
- Start date
Zertuals_Ovrlrd
Diabloii.Net Member
Well, they're both excellent crowd controll skills, but strafe has the added advantage of being better versus single monsters.Kool69 said:
Z_O
LprMan
Diabloii.Net Member
I prefer Strafe. MS is maybe better for big crowds but Strafe isn't bad either. Against bosses MS sucks, Strafe is multiple times better. Strafe will do higher damage too and looks cooler
I wouldn't max both Strafe and MS, in my opinion it is waste of points. You don't really need 2 crowd-control skills. And that also means you will have 20 points less in other skills. For me Penetrate/Pierce/Critical Strike are not point wonders, people seem to underestimate how much they can improve your character. Remember too that you need a attack of another damage type too, it isn't smart to leave them on too low lvl, it will make your character significantly weaker
I wouldn't max both Strafe and MS, in my opinion it is waste of points. You don't really need 2 crowd-control skills. And that also means you will have 20 points less in other skills. For me Penetrate/Pierce/Critical Strike are not point wonders, people seem to underestimate how much they can improve your character. Remember too that you need a attack of another damage type too, it isn't smart to leave them on too low lvl, it will make your character significantly weaker
My personal choice is strafe. Correct me if I'm wrong, but strafe seems to fire about 2-3 arrows even against single opponents (like bosses) making it somewhat more deadly.
And I agree with Lpr. Watching my zon spin in circles with arrows flying everywhere is cool. :lol:
And I agree with Lpr. Watching my zon spin in circles with arrows flying everywhere is cool. :lol:
NSXdreamer
Diabloii.Net Member
It's really a personal preference, that being said, I prefer strafe.
farting bob
Banned
ive tried both, and went for frozen arrow (main skill) and strafe (CI backup). frozen arrow owns non-CI's, and strafe owns non-PI packs. so overall, the bowazon lives on, not jsut a 1.09 build that many people think.
Kinda like fend right? it hits all monsters in your reach 1 time for you, and then an extra time for each minion on screen.factotum said:
So lets see
Valk 20
Decoy 10~20
Strafe 20
Frozen Arrow (Well the level 30 one) 10~20
Critical 10~20 (isnt 17 the best level for it?)
Dodge/Evade/Avoid 2 (Or more?)
Pierce 10~20
Penetrate 1
and all pre-req 1
It might not all match up just yet, just an idea to the final skill selection. Please add comments about my skill selection. Oh and is "Endless Hail" a good bow? Gotta love the name for a strafezon
EDIT: Oh didnt see Lprman's post about strafe, thanks for the correction
ANother Question: Does "Fires Magic Arrows or Bolts" work with strafe?
LprMan
Diabloii.Net Member
I would suggest this:
Valk 17 (thats the minimun with +skills, slvl 17 is when Valk gets her final gear but you can invest more)
Strafe 20
Pierce 7 (with +skills, use Razortail belt and you will get 100% Pierce)
Critical Strike 12-13 (with +skills, more isn't really helpful because of diminishing returns)
Decoy 1-5 (mine has only 1 point in Decoy, Valk can tank really good without the life bonus from it and Decoy isn't a tank, just a little distraction and method to lure some monsters)
Dodge/Avoid lvl 5-8 with +skills, only one point in Evade
Penetrate 10-20 for AR, my zon has it on lvl 22 with +skills (8,7k Strafe AR) which gives ~85-90 chance to hit on lvl 91 with some AR gear (dual Raven Frost). Since bowazon hits very fast with low dmg it is good idea to have decent chance to hit
Frozen Arrow 20 (use Eye of Etlich ammy and/or cold dmg charms to increase freeze lenght)
"Fires magic/explosive arrows/bolts"-mod doesn't work with Strafe
Valk 17 (thats the minimun with +skills, slvl 17 is when Valk gets her final gear but you can invest more)
Strafe 20
Pierce 7 (with +skills, use Razortail belt and you will get 100% Pierce)
Critical Strike 12-13 (with +skills, more isn't really helpful because of diminishing returns)
Decoy 1-5 (mine has only 1 point in Decoy, Valk can tank really good without the life bonus from it and Decoy isn't a tank, just a little distraction and method to lure some monsters)
Dodge/Avoid lvl 5-8 with +skills, only one point in Evade
Penetrate 10-20 for AR, my zon has it on lvl 22 with +skills (8,7k Strafe AR) which gives ~85-90 chance to hit on lvl 91 with some AR gear (dual Raven Frost). Since bowazon hits very fast with low dmg it is good idea to have decent chance to hit
Frozen Arrow 20 (use Eye of Etlich ammy and/or cold dmg charms to increase freeze lenght)
"Fires magic/explosive arrows/bolts"-mod doesn't work with Strafe
Thanks a lot LprMan! :clap:
Just one more question and ill stop bothering you all
Act 2 NM Might Merc
~or~
Act 5 Zerker Barb Merc
Both can tank real well with LL
I get might for extra dmg from Act 2 merc,
but Act 5 merc is a great big meat shield with elemental dmg.
Which one would you chose?
Just one more question and ill stop bothering you all
Act 2 NM Might Merc
~or~
Act 5 Zerker Barb Merc
Both can tank real well with LL
I get might for extra dmg from Act 2 merc,
but Act 5 merc is a great big meat shield with elemental dmg.
Which one would you chose?
Zertuals_Ovrlrd
Diabloii.Net Member
Might all the way! :yep:
Z_O
Z_O
pharaoh
Diabloii.Net Member
That was the case in earlier patches, where the maximum shots Strafe got was the lower of the limit from your skill and the number of monsters/minions (even party members' minions) nearby.factotum said:
However, Strafe now works much like Zeal does, only with a bow. You fire x arrows, and if there's only one enemy nearby, it'll take all those arrows. This is why Strafe is so great for bosses, especially if you can slap on some Crushing Blow gear (crafted gloves, Goblin Toe, Gore Rider, Guillaume's Face, and Rattlecage are the examples I can think of). Slow works wonders too- my strafer just made it to Hell, and between her slow (total of 40% from Riphook and Nosferatu's Coil) and her Holy Freeze merc, bosses are pretty harmless in general.
In the Multishot vs. Strafe argument, another thing I'd like to point out is the mana cost. Strafe has a fixed cost, whereas Multishot scales with the skill level. With the leech penalties in Hell, Multishot can be very difficult to power at times, especially when dealing with smaller crowds and/or unleechable enemies. With base Energy and minimal +mana gear, my zon can still use Strafe a fair bit before she's got to quaff a potion.
Another factor in choosing one over the other is weapon speed. Remember that crossbows need more IAS to hit the same attack frame rates as a bow, and the maximum speed is slower. My strafer using Riphook needs just 30% more IAS (Riphook has 30 built-in) to hit a 2-frame Strafe, and even without any IAS would have a 3-frame Strafe. Crossbows (even the supposedly fast ones like repeating crossbows) need quite a bit of IAS to hit a 3-frame Strafe, and that's the fastest you'll ever get with them. Since you're rooted in place when firing, the faster you fire, the lower the chances are that you'll get mobbed or hit by projectiles. This is a big reason why many people using powerful crossbows (ie Buriza) opt for Multishot instead. Also, with the higher damage from crossbows, leeching is easier, so Multishot is more viable than with a bow. With bows, on the other hand, damage tends to be lower, and Strafe compliments this nicely, giving a damage bonus, whereas Multishot does not.
Whichever you choose to go for, try to get some knockback gear. A Windforce or some other bow with built-in knockback notwithstanding, you can get it from a) Nef rune in bow, b) crafted gloves (chain gloves/heavy bracers/vambraces + Ort rune + magic jewel + perfect sapphire), or c) Cleglaw's Pincers. The glove options are pretty good; Cleglaw's have slow, which prevents the baddies from reaching you as easily, and crafted gloves can get pretty much any mods that can appear on rares, like IAS, +bow skills, +passive/magic skills, magic find, and resists.
JohnnyBravo
Diabloii.Net Member
Kool69 do not listen to these people Magic Arrow is the way to go!!!
20 MA
20 Valk
20 Decoy
Here's the thing the biggest problem with multishot and strafe is you are still have to deal with PI's. MA takes care of this and with your Valk, (which should rarely die at lvl 20), Decoy, (yes decoy. extremely underated skill) and you HF Merc. you should not have to worry about crowd control. Immune to magic is the rarest immunity so you should not have (I know I didn't) killing mobs or single monsters.
20 MA
20 Valk
20 Decoy
Here's the thing the biggest problem with multishot and strafe is you are still have to deal with PI's. MA takes care of this and with your Valk, (which should rarely die at lvl 20), Decoy, (yes decoy. extremely underated skill) and you HF Merc. you should not have to worry about crowd control. Immune to magic is the rarest immunity so you should not have (I know I didn't) killing mobs or single monsters.
FrolfFreak
Diabloii.Net Member
JohnnyBravo, i followed the adventures of your MA 'zon (albeit loosely). If i recall correctly, you Mat'ed her, so the MA 'zon is definitely do-able. My question, though, is does it take a lot of patience and skill to do so? Because looking at the stats for the MA skill, i just don't see it being a fast killer in hell.
-FF
-FF
JohnnyBravo
Diabloii.Net Member
It wasn't Hammerdin fast, but it was not painfully slow either. As long as you keep Decoy, Valk and/or Merc in front of you most of the time you can stand there and fire. You need to want out for not all ranged targets, but only the ones that will "go through" if missed. All magic attacks are auto hit so they'll hit whatever is infront of you. What you need to watch out for are the slinger (javalins), gloams (chain lightening) and the normal archers (arrows). The archer mages seem to auto hit also.
I'll admit that i'm not the best D2 player and my patience is even thinner. I think I was able to play her even though she is medium pacer,or a little on the slow side, because she was just so darn fun to play. Most of the skill that is needed is in the begining when you do not have your valk and decoy maxed.
Also I played her basically untwinked. I did twink her a little to help me in the begining, but all the ending equipment was found. As if you look it was not uber gear either.
Sorry Kool69 for the little hijack, but I just love talking about this build. It was extremely fun to play and does not require uber gear to make it.
I'll admit that i'm not the best D2 player and my patience is even thinner. I think I was able to play her even though she is medium pacer,or a little on the slow side, because she was just so darn fun to play. Most of the skill that is needed is in the begining when you do not have your valk and decoy maxed.
Also I played her basically untwinked. I did twink her a little to help me in the begining, but all the ending equipment was found. As if you look it was not uber gear either.
Sorry Kool69 for the little hijack, but I just love talking about this build. It was extremely fun to play and does not require uber gear to make it.