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Am I an old fogie...

Discussion in 'Classic' started by GuinnessMike, Oct 29, 2006.

  1. GuinnessMike

    GuinnessMike Diabloii.Net Member

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    Am I an old fogie...

    This is sort of a vent and hopefully I am not the only person who feels this way but...... I feel it is very rude to hijack another persons game. Constantly I will create a game to work on a character and others will enter the game and want to join the party and then sit back and are content to let you kill everything and then suck up the loot. Still others come in and use your game to mule items - usually not a problem but when they enter when I am in the most difficult area for my character level it usually gets me killed because there are more monsters or they are stronger. Others enter the game and go hostile often without any communication and try to come kill me. What you can't find somebody who wants to duel? Do they get off killing a low level character. With several years of psychological training I have to wonder about thier mental stability and lack of real life. Of course it could be they are just children either mentaly or actual age. Is it unreasonable to expect to come battle.net and have a quiet enjoyable game - I can hear it now - USE PASSWORD YA DOLT - But I have met some enjoyable folks on bnet so I hate using a password. Thankfully for now the people who cooperate in killing monsters are more frequent than the jerks but that ratio appears to be falling.. Am I an old fogie or what?
     
  2. goomba

    goomba Diabloii.Net Member

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    yes, you can hear it now. use a password. or set a level/count restriction on the game

    I too have met some enjoyable folks on bnet, and have many /f listed. if they want to join me, they have no restriction from doing so, other than to /f msg me asking for it.

    another thought. make your game name something other than what you are working on.

    if a higher level knows you are perpetually stuck in act 1, then it's very tempting for a lvl 9x hammer din to raid it, since that's about the only way they can get decent xp, is by raiding.

    thank bnet for the elmination of the #players switch.

    perhaps a 4th mode of play is needed, even harder than hell?
     
  3. Creon

    Creon Diabloii.Net Member

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    Perhaps a more balanced 3rd mode of play is needed, with nerfed Hammerdins?



     
  4. dougolasjr

    dougolasjr Diabloii.Net Member

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    Everyone talks about nerfing hammerdins, why not just make the other chars stronger. I mean its hard enough when you go in a cs game where only hammerdins and blizz socr are killing what happens if they make hammerdins weaker no cs games at all.


    -Doug
     
  5. Monzee

    Monzee Diabloii.Net Member

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    Ill second that. While hammerdins are essential for fast cs runs, nerfing them would make the game more balancend. But then you have the problem with slow/no cs runs at all. So making the other classes stronger they would maybe open op for the rest of the classes to maybe even solo hell cs within reasonable time.



     
  6. Creon

    Creon Diabloii.Net Member

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    No, Hammerdins really do need nerfed. Blizz Sorceress's could use a nerf, too. The only reason those CS runs without one are a complete mess is because people do not work together. They are waiting for Hammerdins and Blizz Sorc's to leech off of while running around being stupid. No one character with BO on should be able to do almost all of the work in a 7-8 player game. I'm not saying nerf Hammerdins to the point of 1.09 quality. I'm saying that maybe taking away Blessed Aim or Vigor as a synergy would probably be about right. You lose some damage but get it back in skill points to spend elsewhere this way. Of course, some builds also need to be buffed.

    Let me put it like this. If I can solo clear 1 player CS with an Orb Sorc or Whirlwind Barbarian (although the rare IM death occurs), there is no excuse for a game of 7-8 people with reasonably balanced character builds to not be able to do the same when working as a team. Have two players taking out mages, which could be any two of nerfed Hammerdin, fire or lightning Sorc, bone spirit Necromancer, guided arrow Amazon (buffed to work with Pierce up to 2-3 times, or something along those lines), Berzerk Barbarian, or possibly more if the classes were properly balanced on Classic. Any Whirlwind Barbarian in the group could then go to town on the big groups while the Amazon, Necromancer, and Sorceress add in damage from afar. Corpse Explosion would be of huge benefit in this case. This is just a basic example.

    Another example would be a Chain Lightning Sorceress, poison nova/lower resist Necromancer, FOH or Vengeance/Conviction Paladin, Berzerk Barbarian, and Freezing Arrow Amazon. That's one of every class with an otherwise mediocre build working together. Admittedly, poison nova is a bit weak, but is something that could get a bit of a buff. I have no doubt a group like this could clear CS even in 1.11 if working together properly instead of running in 4 different directions and waiting for someone else to kill things.

    Another example is a Warcry Barbarian, Summon Necromancer with a basic curse selection, Cleric, Multishot Amazon, and Enchantress/Inferno Sorc (if they fixed Inferno). This is probably considered about the worst group you could end up with and I bet even it would clear CS fine if the players worked together instead of being retarded together. The problem most people have with this? It would take 10 minutes and killing things together one group at a time, instead of 2 minutes and 2 Hammerdins killing everything at once.

    Everyone relies on 1-3 Hammerdins to power through everything easily to get a CS run done and gives up otherwise. No one wants to communicate strategy or even try attacking a single group of monsters together. They want to see someone else (preferably a Hammerdin) run in and take care of everything. It's not because you have to have Hammerdins to clear CS, it's because most players suck or simply don't want to try and Hammerdins are "user friendly."

    If you're going to buff every class to be as strong as Hammerdins, why not just give them a God-mode button to make everything on the screen die instantly, while you're at it? Because that's what a CS run would become. If you've been in a CS run with 1 Barbarian, 2 Sorcies, and 4-5 Paladins, you know what I'm talking about.
     
  7. dougolasjr

    dougolasjr Diabloii.Net Member

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    Well we know that nerfs are never good ie Bowzons, furthermore getting people to work together is about as easy as finding a SOJ every andy mf run, not going to happpen. The only people who ever work together is if they a clan memebers. I get so tired of people going nerf pallies, nerf pallies.


    -Doug
     
  8. zaxien

    zaxien Diabloii.Net Member

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    well i bet you 100 of those mfed sojs every game this upcoming patch they WILL nerf down dins or they will and more synergies to make other chars feasible and bump up monster lvls/difficulty. But then again if they add synergies to more skills then there will be a new hammerdin next patch, ie. imagine nova with 3 synergies and 110fcr. I say just drop the din damage a bit OR add higher fcr bps for pallies, and maybe legthen the timer on blizzers. should equal out things then.



     
  9. GuinnessMike

    GuinnessMike Diabloii.Net Member

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    Ok now we hijack the thread?:soapbox:
     
  10. zaxien

    zaxien Diabloii.Net Member

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    better find a password protected forum now! :thumbsup:



     
  11. Sebbie

    Sebbie Diabloii.Net Member

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    Remember bountyfull staff of the Appocalypse in Diablo 1 ? I think people don't really like to play the game. If they would enjoy the game they would like it to be tough.

    And yeah CS is filled with so much bad players. It's when am questing in public games in some random quest with random people that I get to see good players. See good players take a bad build with so so gear and make it work. Well that's my take at least :smiley:

    And any spell that deals damage to a mass of targets should deal way less then single target attacks. It's just logical. I think Blessed hammer should deal 1K maximum. So people would level slower. Yeah so what? Make it fast and umbalanced and boring or make it slow and fair? I know where I put my vote.



     
  12. Creon

    Creon Diabloii.Net Member

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    My point exactly. Most people that play Classic on these forums claim one of the reasons is that it is harder than "EZ Mode" Expansion. And yet, when asking for something to be properly balanced to make the game require at least a bit of cooperation in CS groups, I see dissension.

    So which is it? Do you want a hard game, a middle ground game, or an easy game? Because right now, Hammerdins are an easy game, Blizz Sorc's are about the same, a few builds are a middle ground game, and a few builds are a hard game.



     
  13. goomba

    goomba Diabloii.Net Member

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    now that the thread is completely hijacked...

    a hammerdin using a simple shard and triple p dia kite shield can still make what 7500 hammers quite easily? My sceptre din makes 11k hammers right now, w/out a tarn, with zero soj's, and with a +1 ammy (that +2 priz I traded wasn't fcr) at what point do you nerf them? take away one of the synergies? with my gear, I'd probably still make over 5k hammers, more than the blizzers that ya'll say need nerfing as well. more than enough to clear a full CS, especially with a BO

    so, here's a thought, perhaps it's not the hammer din's damage that needs nerfing, but perhaps the effect of BO that needs nerfing? 4,500 life, naked? just as silly as 13-15k hammers?

    making the game harder to level than it already is, only increases the gap between the have's and the have nots. team chars/clans will rule.

    as it is right now, the game rewards a reasonable level of patience in my opinion, but at the very peak of the game, it encourages folks to walk away, or build/level new characters.

    I would love to have a mid 90s char in classic, but more than likely never will.

    I experienced a massive lagspike, Disconnect, FullDeath, then realm down over the weekend, resulting in a loss of 30 some odd spots on the ladder back to base level 91 exp. it sickened me enough, that I don't care to calculate the number of raids it will require to get 20+ million xp back at level 91. (in this particular game, no I wasn't raiding, there were only 3 of us in the game, and it was a nearly cleared CS. all seal bosses except vizier dead, and literally the entire cs nearly cleared., what, under these circumstances could, or would have killed me with a full BO and hammers flying is for speculation I guess)

    anyway, I can only imagine how much worse it is at higher levels... cause I likely won't ever have a char higher than my din.

    (how many flayer runs does it take to get a baba there? :p )

    and creon. I am not one of those people that claim it to be "harder". I have never played xpac, and from what little I have read, it holds no attraction to me.

    holding godly charms in a pack = uber build, regardless of equipment? other character classes getting BO, or teleport via items?

    no, I play classic, and like it because it seems to be more pure to me.

    as much as I would like to self BO my hammer din with a lvl 30 BO, I'm glad one can't.

    as much as I would like to have 400 sojs worth of gear, I'm glad I don't. once you have reached the goal, what next?

    some people like to have godly items, and brag/show them off. I prefer to acquire them, and let them pass through my hands, and move onto the next item to find.
     
  14. Sebbie

    Sebbie Diabloii.Net Member

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    Battle orders doesn't deal damage. Hammerdins can clear 8 players CS without it (with crap gear). The damage is just too high. Take a zealot that needs to get close to a target to deal maybe 500 to 1k damage when he hits (his attack might miss or be blocked) and now compare that to someone who blindly spams 8k hammers that will always hit and hit multiple targets... It doesn't make any sens at all.

    Again BO is not the problem. BO is neat that's all. Babarian think they are doing alot for the team but the hammerdins don't need it 1.5k+ life is enough. It's the 8k+ damage per hammer that is totally wacked.

    I don't care about people wanting to go in the level 90s. I think these individual are sick. They are not playing the game for fun at that point. Doing the same thing over and over again is just so stupid. It's like work and work sucks... I took my hammerdin to level 85 and just the sight of a whirling hammer now makes me wanna hurl because it's so eazy to play. Pretty happy that the GA zon seems to have a nice matchup against the Hammerdins :smiley:.

    You know they just need to balance the game. You balance the damage done by each class. Range attack should deal less and mass damage should be less too. Afterword if it means to bring the hp of monsters down then so be it. Although I would prefer a tougher game. I mean make the monsters speed even higher in hell and make them deal even more damage. It's suppose to be hell. I wanna ear people cry because it's too tough. Give us a challenge. When their's no challenge left their's no fun. Think about it.
     
  15. goomba

    goomba Diabloii.Net Member

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    as someone that has played hammerdins pvm for over two years, a BO helps in areas other than life, mana for example.

    3 hammers, redeem (or pot) 3 hammer suck w/out a BO.

    and yes, it was a chore, and not very fun getting to lvl 91. the only reason I really want to even go slightly higher is for the slightly better gambles.

    if you want a more balanced game, less reliant upon the hammer dins, then allow a sorc to break immunities in hell, and reduce the oblivion's level of IM. give a necro the ability to regen life/mana from corpses, after all, they are supposedly versed in the undead, blah, blah.

    you said you stopped at 85? lvl 85. I wonder how many people stop at levels lower, or even there, and have never gone higher.

    to me, there is additinal fun in "finishing" a character. Many of which, are not finished at what is a relatively low level. Yes, I said it. level 85 is low :p

    any char can get godly FR, and survive CSing. nozokan or hotspurs, or angellic armor/ring/ammy. hell, I even saw a necro using the hell forge hammer just for the extra FR...

    want it harder, want it a challenge? take away the river wp, and clear the plains/steps before you get to the CS... (but sprinkle some exp worthy adversaries out there as well)

    oh, and regarding mass damage. my mart barb, with a lowly, unsocketed 268 mart, frw/fhr/mf rez boots (not gtoes) angellic armor, ring, and ammy does on the order of 1800 dmg per ww. Add a chant, and the LCS shows it over 3k. Add Conc from a din, and it's 4k or more.

    I'm guessing you'd nerf that too to "balance" out the "mass damage" argument? the only reason barb's don't completely dominate the game as they supposedly used to, is due to the insane IM levels in the CS.



     
  16. WarlockCC

    WarlockCC Diablo Classic Moderator

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    If that WP is gone, the sorcs just have to tele further.
    I say put another Viper Temple before CS, that'll show/slow them. :)
     
  17. goomba

    goomba Diabloii.Net Member

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    LOL.

    many barely make the trip as it is these days.

    however, it would certainly slow down the dins from raiding... and that seems to be the crux of some of the whining. Dins do all the work in CS's, or they raid my quest/mf games.



     
  18. zaxien

    zaxien Diabloii.Net Member

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    Well I am just lazy I guess, in the past 2 seasons I had one 91 hccl sorc and I have a 88din on ladder with a whole slew of chars 65-85. I get bored of cs areound 85, same as I did cows in .09. On the "nerfing" of certain characters, you have to go to xpac to find out what will happen because lets face it, any patch that comes out will be focused more so on xpac than classic. That means YES dins will get nerfed some, Blizz will get nerfed some and from the feedback on bnet forums there may be some added synergies to other skills/characters. I agree with the statement above that all multiple enemy spells should be lower than single attacks that would make things more interesting. So would making more melee attacks viable at end game ie. smite, zeal, jab etc. I remember clearing cs in .09 with my smiter (of course im did not affect it then). Who can do that now? I have reverted to the days of .09 here lately with my builds, summoner, smiter, bowzon, nova sorc etc. just to have a different character and try my best to make it viable. Anyway I love hijacking this thread! :wink2:



     
  19. Creon

    Creon Diabloii.Net Member

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    I guess we can expect to see Chain Lightning get a bit of a nerf, too, since it plus that conviction runeword people put on Mercenaries is supposedly pretty overpowered. Maybe they'll just nerf the runeword.

    I wonder, are Bowazon's as horrible on Expansion as they are on Classic? I remember them being pretty good on Expansion in 1.09 for the cow XP treadmill.
     
  20. zaxien

    zaxien Diabloii.Net Member

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    Actually I doubt chain will see anything done to it b/c it is only powerful like you said with infinity runeword AND lots of + skills. And I have never played a xpac bow zon so i dunno.



     

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