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Alternate Power-Resource Systems: Mana, Fury and ???

Discussion in 'Diablo 3 General Discussion' started by Jedouard, Aug 25, 2009.

  1. Jedouard

    Jedouard IncGamers Member

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    Alternate Power-Resource Systems: Mana, Fury and ???

    This thread is for us to try to come up with new power-resource systems since Blizzard said it will be using mana for the WD, fury for the Barb and hopefully something new for the other three classes. Let's try to come up with some ideas.

    IMPORTANT: If you do not like that this is what they are doing, then please post about it elsewhere. This thread is just to come up with and iterate upon ideas for alternate power-resource systems. (I too have some reservations about the WD getting mana and not the wizard, but that is not what this thread is about.)
     
  2. Jedouard

    Jedouard IncGamers Member

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    Re: Alternate Power-Resource Systems: Mana, Fury and ???

    Here is the post that started it all:

    I like this idea. In its original thread, it did receive criticism for being to restrictive on spamming a skill, which arguable should be a freedom to the player or, at least, should only limited by the actual monsters and situations you encounter.

    To that regard, I think two things would help:

    I think two things would help:

    1) Make the chambers replenish by themselves, not by successful hits with other skills. You could have them replenish relatively moderately so that you are not overly limited from using the same spell. You could also have other skills affect that replenishment even through systems like the one you said, i.e., hitting with another skill will offer returns on the other chambers.

    2) Make it so that a spell will deplete one chamber first, then all the remaining chambers simultaneously for its full cost in each chamber. This is a great way to give freedom to the player not only to spam one spell if they want (so long as they can quickly replenish their resource runes quick enough), but also to allows an emergency exit for those players who get into a situation where they need precisely one skill but have used up the chamber for it. On the other hand, if you had four chambers total, it would triple the cost once you ran through the original chamber.


     
  3. Rash

    Rash IncGamers Member

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    Re: Alternate Power-Resource Systems: Mana, Fury and ???

    I really hope they surprise me, cause a wizard without mana sounds...not so good.
    While i like the fury engine of the barbarian, I am not really sold on the fact that only the WD will use mana and all other classes use sth different.
    Lets see what they come up with.
     
  4. Daerius

    Daerius IncGamers Member

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    Re: Alternate Power-Resource Systems: Mana, Fury and ???

    The Monk might use something akin to Energy like rogues and druids from WoW. Perhaps upon killing or landing a blow he gains faster regeneration? I could see something like this working, since there has to be some limit to how many times he can keep the combos coming, and yet, with a fast-paced character like this, you need to have low down-time, since you have to keep killing to stay alive.

    Originally Posted by Sir Phobos
    "My idea was this: there are four glowing chambers in place of the mana sphere. You use Disintegrate for a while, and the first chamber starts to fade. Once it runs out, it doesn't start to refill (or it does, but at a very slow rate). So you switch to Electrocute. If you hit an enemy with it, the first chamber starts to refill with each successful hit as your second chamber starts to fade. Then you switch to Arcane Orb, which refills the first two chambers as the third starts to deplete."

    Sounds like runes.
     
  5. BigKevSexyMan

    BigKevSexyMan IncGamers Member

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    Re: Alternate Power-Resource Systems: Mana, Fury and ???

    Maybe an overdrive system.


    Say using disintegrate would give you 1% overdrive per second used. When you get to 100% overdrive, you start taking damage from your spells. Kind of like your body cannot handle the shear power that you are conjuring. The damage to yourself would be proportionate to the percentage over 100.

    Also, it would be possible to make spell damage(on enemies) proportionate to the percent overdrive you have.

    So if you're at 40% overdrive, you could do 40% more damage with your spells.


    Of course, overdrive % would fall over time, so you would be constantly trying to stay in that sweet spot.
     
  6. Daerius

    Daerius IncGamers Member

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    Re: Alternate Power-Resource Systems: Mana, Fury and ???

    "When you get to 100% overdrive, you start taking damage from your spells."

    I dunno, I like to spam spells. The idea of overheating like some futuristic plasma rifle is kinda meh. Aren't clothies vulnerable enough? So we would be squishy AND we would blow ourselves up.

    "Pew, Pew, BOOM!"
     
  7. Evil Storm

    Evil Storm IncGamers Member

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    Re: Alternate Power-Resource Systems: Mana, Fury and ???

    Monk will probably use some sort of energy power, wizard might use something like runic power
     
  8. Silverfang

    Silverfang IncGamers Member

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    Re: Alternate Power-Resource Systems: Mana, Fury and ???

    A system depending on using up ressources would be nice. The effect of associated skills to this system may even differ depending on the ressources used. Gems could be used, for example, whereas the quality of the gem decides the power of the skill used and/or determining the actual effect the skill has. (Think "demon wars"-saga...)

    Of course such a system wouldn't be usable for all skills of the character dependend of it (that would just make the charakter nearly unplayable), but it would be neat to have the tough decisions in about cramping up inventory, socketing or other stuff, Blizz may think of as an "alternative use" of these ressources. And if it sorta constricts the character to one style of fighting having none (for example "normally" a fighter, wheareas gemmed an adequate spellslinger, too - Elbryan says hello again ;)), it would give him just the edge needed for players searching for interesting challenges.

    Kallisti!

    Alexis of Silverfang
     
  9. Sir Phobos

    Sir Phobos IncGamers Member

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    Re: Alternate Power-Resource Systems: Mana, Fury and ???

    Funny you should mention that! That was the terminology I used in the original post, but I was unaware that it was similar to an existing resource system.

    I came up with a different idea which combines all of the aspects I think are vital to the wizard class. It's sort of like mana, but on a smaller scale. Lore-wise, when I thought about the name to use, I referred back to the fact that the wizard is using "dangerous incantations" and forbidden magic. I call it the Essence system, as using too much of it will drain the wizard's Essence and leave her relatively defenseless for a short period of time.

    - Spells drain Essence (which remains at a max of 10 points).
    - Essence refills very quickly (maybe about 1 point per second?).
    - Spells, when used at full Essence, are increased in power.
    - Spells cannot be spammed endlessly.
    - Once Essence runs out, a quick repositioning will allow it to recharge.
    - Encourages smart use of skills with power-boost at full Essence.
    - It also allows players to use skills frequently without running away.

    Here are a few of the aspects that would obviously require balancing:

    - Refills completely in about 10 seconds.
    - Lower tier spells (i.e. Magic Missle) cost 1 point.
    - Damage-over-time spells (i.e. Ray of Frost, Disintegrate) cost about 1 point per second?
    - Higher tier spells (i.e. Blizzard, Hydra) cost 4-5 points.
    - Get-off-me spells (i.e. Teleport, Wave of Force) cost 3-4 points with a cooldown? This would allow you to get out of a sticky situation and still have enough Essence to use other spells.

    Any thoughts or critiques welcome!


     
  10. Runestar

    Runestar IncGamers Member

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    Re: Alternate Power-Resource Systems: Mana, Fury and ???

    Monks - Ki? No idea what might differentiate it from the other mana systems though.
     
  11. Starving_Poet

    Starving_Poet IncGamers Member

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    Re: Alternate Power-Resource Systems: Mana, Fury and ???

    I vote for a methane alternative.
     
  12. theeliminator

    theeliminator Well-Known Member

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    Re: Alternate Power-Resource Systems: Mana, Fury and ???

    here is the idea I posted on the Wizard page.


    Spell weaving, where the wiz has a circular bar that has runes, every time the wiz casts a spell a rune is filled. Every rune increases the chance that the Wiz will take damage from her own spell, but every rune will also increase the next spells damage and crt chance. She can release the weave at any time causing an AOE explosion. The more runes filled on her meter the more damage the AOE will deal.


    This system will allow the Wizard to never physically attack anything unless she wants to. This system will also reinforce the “always keep attacking” idea for D3.

    Here is what it might look like.
    [​IMG] The Big red button in the middle could be to release the weave, you could also release the weave by pressing both right and left mouse buttons at the same time.
     
  13. Funkopotamus

    Funkopotamus IncGamers Member

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    Re: Alternate Power-Resource Systems: Mana, Fury and ???

    I'm guessing they'll use stuff like spirit and chi.

    You have my vote this election.



     
  14. Jedouard

    Jedouard IncGamers Member

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    Re: Alternate Power-Resource Systems: Mana, Fury and ???

    What if the Monk had something where he had to meditate to get his resource, and that was the only way he could acquire it (not orbs or potions)? Let's call the resource "qi".

    So, the monk, while not attacking or being hit, could meditate and channel his qi. He would have enough qi to get him through most fights, but if he saw he was running out, he would have to flip a defensive spell with the last of his qi and then meditate (i.e., avoid being hit or attacking). (Defensive spells would cost qi but would not prohibit its being replenished.) You could also make meditation replenish qi exponentially, so that every second the monk does not hit and does not get hit, he replenishes twice as fast as the last second.

    They could even somehow tie this in with the religion, such that if there were 101 character levels in the game (0 + 100), the monk receives 10 qi. If he began at level 0 with 1 qi, then at level 100 he would have 1001 qi, one for each of his 1001 gods - kind of a god-based qi. This would be a nice way to tie his resource to the lore, as the more adept monk becomes one with his gods.

    This resource system would promote both the use of defensive spells and the strategic management of resources. Unlike fury, it would also promote figuring out the swiftest way to dispose of a group of monsters, not just a way to maintain enough fury to keep spamming while tanking. A successful player would still enjoy fast gameplay. For those who were less successful or who were facing a large threat, they would have to find a few seconds calm in the midst of battle with their defensive spells and then continue.

    As suggested above, you could make the qi affect damage output by 1) modifying the qualities of the qi with items (e.g. "each qi offers a 'x' bonus) and/or 2) having a bonus based percentage total qi (e.g. percent of total qi gets added to your damage). The former would make up for the inability to increase your qi reservoir beyond the 10 per character level, and the latter would help in taking out larger threats, as you could right off the bat either more swiftly take out the small enemies or deal a heavier blow to a big enemy.

    I would say meditation would make more sense if the monk were required not to move, but that would really stand in the way of gameplay. It would just have to be when he doesn't attack, like an anti-Fury.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2009
  15. Funkopotamus

    Funkopotamus IncGamers Member

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    Re: Alternate Power-Resource Systems: Mana, Fury and ???

    I would not play the monk if I had to do any of that.
     
  16. Karzon

    Karzon IncGamers Member

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    Re: Alternate Power-Resource Systems: Mana, Fury and ???

    I could see the Wizard having different resources for different spell types, at a ratio that depends (mostly) on how many points have been put in that spell type. For example, if you put twice as many skill points in Arcane than in Storm, she'd have around twice the Arcane "mana pool" or whatever. It wouldn't have to be weighted 100% based on that though, and she could gain a little of each resource regardless. I could see this making hybrid characters fairly interesting, especially with Mana Burst if it was implemented separately for each type of resource.

    I think it would fit with her theme of being an uncontrolled, chaotic spellcaster flinging assorted magic all over the place without really forcing you to (depending on your skill and item choices). And you could have a backup skill to rely on even if you were out of mana with your normal ones.
     
  17. Jush

    Jush IncGamers Member

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    Re: Alternate Power-Resource Systems: Mana, Fury and ???

    Hmm. This thread finally prompted me to become a member (well, a member AGAIN. I was in the D2 open beta).

    As to the Monks energy resource, I was just thinking today about that. If the Barbarian uses "Fury", and the Monk is something of a polar-opposite melee character, then it might make sense for him to use "Focus".

    Someone mentioned qi, earlier, and my idea is somewhat parallel.

    -While the Monk is motionless, and not under attack, he regenerates up to 100%
    -While moving and not under attack, he regenerates more slowly
    -While moving and under attack, he does not regenerate Focus


    Now here's the kicker: Blizzard says they WANT the Monk to play like a brawler, and they WANT you to fight with combos, but they say it won't be too easy to chain them together so....

    -For every combo successfully completed, your Focus will regenerate 5-10% up to 100% and beyond it.
    -Keep on knocking out those combos without faltering and get to 200%, the Focus orb creates a new, smaller orb within it of a different color. Fill this one up, and repeat the same effect, until there are (I haven't decided yet) perhaps five "layers" of orbs. Once all are completely full, your Monk has focused to the point of "transcending his own consciousness". (And so have you probably, after chaining together that many combos, you quick-fingered fox) The reward could be a significant passive buffing effect lasting for 1-3 minutes. Visually, perhaps a new filter effect could be added, or some sort of flaming nimbus appears around his head, letting all your cohorts see that you truly are...a bad-***.
    -Mess up a combo, however, and you lose a big chunk of that focus (maybe even setting you back to 100% or lower)

    All in all, I think this encourages the type of play that Blizzard apparently wants us to experience while using the Monk. It dangles a big reward in front of you for playing the Monk like a raging kung-fu super-human. I know it's far from perfect, but that's my 2 cents.
     
  18. Ishtor

    Ishtor IncGamers Member

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    Re: Alternate Power-Resource Systems: Mana, Fury and ???

    I like the fact that they are trying to make each class unique, to make each class play differently, because each one is different. I am also not a fan that the witch doctor is getting the mana resource, but hey they probally have something in place for the wizard. But anyway you really look at it, a energy resource is what it is, a energy resource - no matter what it is called.

    Barbarian is going to use fury
    witch doctor is going to use mana
    Wizard is going to use ???
    Monk is going to use ???
    ??? is going to use ???

    some pointed out a system for the wizard to use a system like ruinic power from wow, the only issue with this is it keeps you from you wizard from focus on one aspect, which could be a good or bad thing.

    Monk could use a resource called focus, this is something that will be introduce for hunter in WOW to use, it sound pretty cool and could work for the Monk, although it could be more suited for the 5th class. (i should of read all the post some one beat me to this.)

    So far what i can say, the more they work on this game and tease us with this minor update, the more i can see how this game is going to turn out, it has defantly gone a long way, and i am sure Blizzard will make good choice when concerning the energy resources for these charecters.
     
  19. OmniSliver

    OmniSliver IncGamers Member

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    Re: Alternate Power-Resource Systems: Mana, Fury and ???

    I like the system used in Magic The Gathering: Battlegrounds (a PC and XBOX game) for the wizard.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic:_The_Gathering_-_Battlegrounds#Mana

    It basically works like this:

    -You have "mana points" for each resource (storm, arcane and conjuration).
    -More powerful spells cost more mana points.
    -The more mana points you have in each resource, the faster that resource regenerates.
    -The number of mana points increase as the character progresses. (For D3, progression would be measured through character levels, points invested in each tree, etc.)

    So, you can spam a a cheap spell (almost) indefinitely.

    Or, you can alternate between powerful spells of different resources, so you don't have to stop casting, and have a reserve in case you find yourself in a pinch.

    Or, you can spam a single powerful spell, but you will find yourself with no mana for that resource, thus being forced to switch spells or wait for the mana to regenerate.

    I think this would work pretty well, as you can focus (skill distribution wise) on a cheap spell, or have a balance between all the trees, using natively powerful but expensive spells.

    PS: I don't think Blizzard will do something like this, because it's too similar to the WD's mana, but i really like this system.

    PS2: Any spelling or grammar corrections are welcome, as English is not my native language and I'm trying to learn.
     
  20. theeliminator

    theeliminator Well-Known Member

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    Re: Alternate Power-Resource Systems: Mana, Fury and ???


    I don't like this part, I think it will promote standing around, and as we know Blizzard wants a non stop action game, not a game where you kill 10 guy then stand still just to get your energy back.

    I really like this part, in fact, I think this should be the bases of the idea.



    This seems like a lot of work for a reward. Not saying it's a bad idea just would need a little refinement.

    (My twist)

    So the Monk has QI and and its starts at 100% every combo move lowers his QI, but every non combo move raises his QI.

    Every non combo skill gives him a bonus to damage That is only activated after completing a combo.

    Every successful completed combo you gain a bonus to defense, that bonus can only be added after the Monk completes a non combo skills.

    His meter could look like a Yin and Yang symbol. The more combos he does the more the Yin side of the meter fills up, the more non combo skills he uses the more the Yang side of the meter fills.

    This way your giving rewards for using all of your skills.


     

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