Advice/Opinions on next PVP Char

praetora

Diabloii.Net Member
Advice/Opinions on next PVP Char

I already have a decent WW sin and I've decided to start off with another PVP char. I've narrowed it down to two selections and I'm looking for a build that can take on bone necros, windy druids, smite dins, hammer dins.

Please rate each build AGAINST the four mentioned enemy builds (bonenecro, windydruid, smitedin, hammerdin):

#1: 200% fc FB sorc
-=Items=-
Helm-Griffons (25%fcr to get me up to 200 fcr)
Armor-Ormus 15%fire, +3 fireball (20%fcr)
Ammy-20%fcr, +3 fireskill
2XRings-10%fcr, resists and +str
Weapon-perf hoto
Shield-35%fcr spirit
Belt-Arachnid (20%fcr)
Gloves-Magefist (20%fcr)
Boots-Scarabshell (+15/+15)
20stat anni, 18 stat torch

-=Stats=-
Str-nuff for item
Dex-nuff for monarch
*Rest will depend on whether I go ES or Vit (any suggestions?)

-=Skills=-
20FB
20Meteor
20Firebolt
*Rest will depend on whether I go ES or Vit (any suggestions?)

#2: WW Barb
-=Items=-
Helm-BerBer CoA
Armor-AP Enigma
Ammy-29 Maras
2XRings-20dex Ravenfrosts
Weapons-2X good Grief Zerkers
Belt-Arachnid
Gloves-Still choosing
Boots-Scarabshell (+15/+15)
20stat anni, 20 stat torch
37 +20 life sc (/w enough mods to justify stats)

-=Stats=-
All in Vit

-=Skills=-
20 WW
20 Shout
20 BO
20 Axe Mastery
Rest distributed into Iron Skin, Natural Resistance, Frenzy, Speed

Thanks for the advice guys!
 

Ce Olba

Banned
praetora said:
Ammy-29 Maras
Bad. Maras is crap. You do not benefit from it at all. You do not need the resistances or the +skills. Use Highlord's Wrath for the Deadly Strike it gives.

Weapons-2X good Grief Zerkers
No. Use GriefZ and a BeastZ, this will yield the best damage over time.

Gloves-Still choosing
Dracul's Grasps are the only possible gloves for a BvC. Nothing else will even come close to them.

Boots-Scarabshell (+15/+15)
No. Use either double or triple resistance boots, or Goreriders. You cannot even build in the stats you gain from using Treks.

37 +20 life sc (/w enough mods to justify stats)
Bad. You should use 33x max/ar/life scs or ar/life scs. Or at worst 24x life scs and 3x ar/life GCs. Always have 4x 5 fhr scs in your inventory.

-=Stats=-
All in Vit
Bad. You will not be able to make any kinds of gear changes with this setup, except maybe for your rings and amulet. But you will not be able to use Fortitude or Duress or Widowmaker. To get the correct amount, do this: 103 - stats from torch - stats from annihilus. With +40 stats from torch and annihilus you will end up with 63 base STR. For Dexterity, do this: 117 - +dex from one (1) Ravenfrost - stats from torch - stats from annihilus. With perfect items, you will end up with value 57.

-=Skills=-
20 WW
20 Shout
20 BO
20 Axe Mastery
Rest distributed into Iron Skin, Natural Resistance, Frenzy, Speed
Wrong. You should never, ever max Shout unless you will be making a BvA or a BvB. A BvC will have this:
20 Leap
20 WW
20 Bo
20 Axe mastery
1 zerk
2-6 Nat Res
5-6 Inc Speed

Rest Shout. Frenzy is a totally useless skill, it has never been of any use in PvP. Iron skin is only good on a BvB. You should not put low points into nat res and inc speed if you want to save skills, but rather go to a high lvl.


OT: I'm in the process of (FINALLY) writing the BvC guide. So far I've gone through the stats and skills. I'm in the middle of explaining the pubsetup and all the other items.
 

Uncle_Mike

D2 PvP Moderator
praetora said:
#1: 200% fc FB sorc
-=Items=-
Helm-Griffons (25%fcr to get me up to 200 fcr)

Ammy-20%fcr, +3 fireskill
Griffons is not a good idea on a fire sorc - light bonuses are wasted...

Such amulet does not exist, max for 3fire amu would be 10 fcr, max on 2 fire or 2 sorc would be 20fcr on crafted amus (both will cost you a fortune btw)

Mike
 

praetora

Diabloii.Net Member
Ce Olba - so if I make the necessary changes, will the barb meet the goals of defeating bone necs, windy druids, hammer and foh dins?

Uncle_Mike - how should i otherwise go about achieving 200% fcr? should i go for the next lowest breakpoint instead and give up on 200% fcr?
 

calibansfury

Diabloii.Net Member
Ce Olba said:
OT: I'm in the process of (FINALLY) writing the BvC guide. So far I've gone through the stats and skills. I'm in the middle of explaining the pubsetup and all the other items.
We'll look forward to it C.O.

To the maker: read and learn. And forget the FB sorc. A BvC will eat her for lunch and crap her for dinner.

calibansfury
 

HappyAssassin

Diabloii.Net Member
Um, no. A Fireball sorc with Max block is fully capable of beating a BvC. It is a strong character and you shouldn't listen to caliban.
 

Ce Olba

Banned
HappyAssassin said:
Um, no. A Fireball sorc with Max block is fully capable of beating a BvC. It is a strong character and you shouldn't listen to caliban.
This actually depends from a lot of factors: FCR, blocking, FHR, damage, ES%, mana, charms, wealth. If the Sorc lacks in any of those, she will be beaten. Whereas if the BvC lacks knowledge, skills or wealth he will lose.

Ce Olba - so if I make the necessary changes, will the barb meet the goals of defeating bone necs, windy druids, hammer and foh dins?
You might need to do just adjustments to your gear to beat the specific characters. For example, versus Bonemancers you want to use Arreat's and 2x fcr rings with high mana, versus fohadins you want to have lots of Lightning resistances, versus hammerdins you want to have a widowmaker and some AR (preferably >20k)

We'll look forward to it C.O.
What does C.O. stand for? Also, it might take quite some time as I will first have to write the scratchy version, then I will try to improve it by changing some sentences into other forms and fixing typos or sentences that might not give the right point. After that I will again proofread the text at least once or twice and then I will check that it has all the needed information and I might add something missing. Then I might post it here. This will be the first place I will post it, and I will consider other places (mainly D2jsp for bragging rights, battle.net forums for the fact that there's only 1 guide there).
 

Sechler

Diabloii.Net Member
Ditch the ormus and use a shael'ed or um'ed Vipermagi. Then you can get rid of the griffs and use a 2skill, 20 fcr, res, stats circ. It'll also give u some flexibilty in your spirit or ammy as far as fcr.

pssst..
I think C.O. was intended to be short for Ce Olba
 

praetora

Diabloii.Net Member
After consideration I have decided to go for the barb. Mostly because the sorc can be easily countered with hotspurs and dwarf stars.

Taking into account everyone's comments, here is the revised build, please make any additional suggestions. Thanks for the first round of comments!

Note 1: I should have mentioned this before but this is a ladder build. I am rich but I'm not filthy rich. I can't afford max/ar/life sc's on ladder where they aren't massly available as dupes.

Note 2: astericks (*) indicate additional advice/suggestions needed.

#2: WW Barb
-=Items=-
Helm-BerBer CoA
Armor-AP Enigma*
Ammy-Highlord's
2XRings-20dex Ravenfrosts*
Weapons-2X good Grief Zerkers*
Belt-Arachnid
Gloves-10/15 Dracul's
Boots-Upped Goreriders
20stat anni, 20 stat torch
37 +20 life sc (/w enough mods to justify stats)

-=Stats=-
Enough for items, rest in Vit

-=Skills=-
20 Leap*
20 WW
20 Bo
20 Axe mastery
1 zerk
2-6 Nat Res
5-6 Inc Speed
Rest Shout

Questions (in order of astericks):
1) Should I go for a lower str enigma?
2) I heard of dual angelic rings and angelic ammy for certain duels, any opinions? Also, if I don't go dual raven, what should be the secondary ring to the raven? (this is an important question because it will mean a 20dex difference in building stats into my char)
4) Anyone else have something to say on the 2xGriefZ vs. GriefZ/BeastZ?
5) Why Leap? (sorry if this is a newbish question)

Special Thanks to Ce Olba for his extensive and no-BS critique, I hope to hear from you again and look forward to your guide.
 

Ce Olba

Banned
praetora said:
Weapons-2X good Grief Zerkers*
Use Grief+ Beast instead. Believe it or not, it does more damage than any other setup. Also, make sure your Beast has 36 or more STR.

37 +20 life sc (/w enough mods to justify stats)
You should use 4x fhr SCs or you will be screwed over by each and every sorc. Also, you should have your small charms come with 15 or more AR.

Questions (in order of astericks):
1) Should I go for a lower str enigma?
Not necessary. You can go with anything you want. AP, Dusk, Scarab, Wyrm, LP, BP, AP...

2) I heard of dual angelic rings and angelic ammy for certain duels, any opinions? Also, if I don't go dual raven, what should be the secondary ring to the raven? (this is an important question because it will mean a 20dex difference in building stats into my char)
You should not depent on 2x Ravenfrosts. Make your build so that you can use a Hel'ed Widowmaker (117 dex) with Angelics + Arrreat's. This will allow you to use Angelics vs. Hammerdins to retain high AR.

4) Anyone else have something to say on the 2xGriefZ vs. GriefZ/BeastZ?
The +ar% and +damage% Beast adds to Grief makes the primary GriefZ do so much more damage that it surpasses any other setups damage-wise.

5) Why Leap? (sorry if this is a newbish question)
Because it will knockback casters and this will allow you to tele-whirl them effectively. Especially useful versus defensive casters and bonemancers. It will also make sure that windies and summonmancers are a cake by knocking back their summons. which will allow you to hit the druid/necro directly instead of wasting time to hit the minions.
 

SicHalo

Diabloii.Net Member
first things is u need the 45% fhr bp which does require like 4x 5% fhr scs, without this bp against most opponment that spam u will be toasted, i.e sorc bone nec,trapper etc.

Secondly Grief + Beast does more dmg over time as in a ww sequence ur primary hand which is ur greif hits the most, so the aura from fana give the dmg and ar needed to give good hit chance + u have openwounds which after lvl 90 can do very high dmg.

Another point is u will need the beast in order to wear CoA with a swap in armour like forti or duress.

Pure vita has the edge with hp but from my experience with pure vita it only works well if u have 100% good funding with gear and items, also the problems with pure vita is it lacks flexibility where needed in setups, i.e being able to switch to a forti armour when necessary is a plus and being able to wear duel angelics while using widow is also helpfull.

Leap is needed or ur gonna have a hard time catching good casters , as explain leap puts ur opponment into fhr, giving u enought time to usally name lock tele WW the opponment.

And yeah building a BvC on ladder is very expensive due to the charms alone for top notch charms will be damn expensive.
 

Ce Olba

Banned
SicHalo said:
first things is u need the 45% fhr bp which does require like 4x 5% fhr scs, without this bp against most opponment that spam u will be toasted, i.e sorc bone nec,trapper etc.
I think you mean the 48% breakpoint? 30 + 20 = 50, 1 too much.

Pure vita has the edge with hp but from my experience with pure vita it only works well if u have 100% good funding with gear and items, also the problems with pure vita is it lacks flexibility where needed in setups, i.e being able to switch to a forti armour when necessary is a plus and being able to wear duel angelics while using widow is also helpfull.
I have to disagree with this. I think it's just the opposite. If you do not have enough funding to get all the setups in the flexibility setup (the one that mcm, myself and most good BvCs use), you shouldn't bother putting points in. Also, playing with pure vitality is good practise for the flexibility setup, as you will depend on your teleporting, whirling, zerking, namelocking and Leaping skills. The fact that you have no gear to switch forces you to learn how to play well or you will lose. And if you will lose, you will quit playing a BvC quickly. So if you have enough patience, you will learn how to play with the pure vitality setup, which will in turn make your playing better in the flexibility setup.
 

SicHalo

Diabloii.Net Member
Ce Olba said:
I think you mean the 48% breakpoint? 30 + 20 = 50, 1 too much.



I have to disagree with this. I think it's just the opposite. If you do not have enough funding to get all the setups in the flexibility setup (the one that mcm, myself and most good BvCs use), you shouldn't bother putting points in. Also, playing with pure vitality is good practise for the flexibility setup, as you will depend on your teleporting, whirling, zerking, namelocking and Leaping skills. The fact that you have no gear to switch forces you to learn how to play well or you will lose. And if you will lose, you will quit playing a BvC quickly. So if you have enough patience, you will learn how to play with the pure vitality setup, which will in turn make your playing better in the flexibility setup.
sry 48% fhr bp typo.

I don't really think so cuz i had pure vita although at that point i was not too experience using barbs either and i found certain fight being a nightmare, I also found item wise i was lacking and due to this certain things just never worked well for me. On the other hand building my BvC with stats this time arround my general sucess in dueling has greatly improved as i learnt to use the build properly.

I think pure vita to me only works with good gear, and if u have the skill. Cuz u don't have the luxuary of gear changes and so all setup or any minor changes making u less dependent.

For me making pure vita from the start did not help me much at all maybe now for me it could work but even so i don't find it that worth it.

Also i find even with more flexibility in pubs i usally were a standard setup very few pubs i ever change my gear to improve my chances vs other chars

I still even have my pure vita BvC up not using but a mule and even when i set it backup the hp increase to me which was like 600-700 as i usally hit arround 6.5k with my setup sometimes more depending vs 7.2k + more with angelics it just did not seem so worth it in the hp gain imo.
 
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