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Advice needed

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by esd, Mar 12, 2004.

  1. esd

    esd IncGamers Member

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    Advice needed

    I recently started a new character - bone skill necromancer. Untwinked because I have no items. I'm planning to get him to hell and do pit/countess runs. Right now he's in Act V NM at level 58. But I don't know how to distribute his stat points ! So any advice would be very helpful. At the moment he has 100 str 40 dex 80 nrg 80 vit and 75 points unspent.
     
  2. Kremtok

    Kremtok IncGamers Member

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    I have no experience with Necromancers after 1.07, but here goes.

    Firstly, your strength and dexterity stat point allocations are determined primarily by what gear you intend to use. I wouldn't put any more into strength, but you should decide if you're going to use a wand or dagger, because that will dictate how much dexterity you need. Usually, for a bone skill Necromancer, a wand is the better choice. Wands don't have dexterity requirements, so you're good there. Daggers, on the other hand, have up to 75 dexterity required, I think. Check out The Arreat Summit to get item specifics.

    Secondly, I have a somewhat different approach to Vitality and Energy than most. I made it all the way through Hell with less than 500 life, but I had over 2000 Mana. My primary skill was Bone Spirit, and as I'm sure you've discovered, really uses up Mana quickly. I decided that I never want to run out of mana, and inspired by a Mana Regeneration Shrine, I loaded up on Energy, +Mana items, and +Mana Regeneration items. The result was spectacular. I could regenerate mana faster than I could use it spamming Bone Spirit. While putting so many points into energy and so few into vitality is clearly not the safest route to go, it has its advantages, and it worked out for me.

    By the way, if you want some gear, let me know. I'll send you a wand or two, and any daggers I have double of as well.
     
  3. SincereX13

    SincereX13 IncGamers Member

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    Sorry, but I have to ask, who is that in your Avatar?
     
  4. Wraithswind

    Wraithswind IncGamers Member

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    I would say pour your points into either Vitality or Energy. The only reason I'd look at daggers on Bone Necro would be Wizardspike, otherwise, wands are better for a damage boost and you won't have to boost your Dex (unless you're using a shield for blocking instead of +skills from a head, then you'll want to keep dex up for max block).
     
  5. nemar

    nemar IncGamers Member

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    it's easy : put where you need !

    you don't need ?
    don't put any !

    or
    streng : need to gear : 100 is enough (or if you want to have big heavy armor like a barbar)

    dex : if you want to block : need a good shield and a lot of point (about 2 point for 1% blok). to you to see

    energie : if you need more energye, if you drink mana each ten sec , put some

    vit: it the same, if you are not killed, you don't need more else ....
     
  6. nikstone

    nikstone IncGamers Member

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    I have a bonemancer and I am doing all possible runs in hell with him.
    I see you would like to do pit runs, i guess that is for magicfind.
    If so, an untwinked bonemancer can do pitruns on I would say max players 4 with a reasonable speed.
    I had the dilemma about max or base block.
    SnakeEye85 pointed me in direction of max block and I did that, its very useful if you are actually running somewhere as you will do, and you will get hit, max block can be a lifesaver there.
    I stopped putting in dexterity after 190 points.
    You have 80 energy, that should be sufficient, altough you will have to use at least 2 rows of mana poitons for longer tasks, that shouldnt be a problem.
    You can always equip one item that gives you a huge mana boost.
    I have energy 75.
    I have 100 strength as you do.
    Life- all the rest.
    I would higly suggest one point in clay golem and golem mastery, this little guy can also be a lifesaver, cause the monsters always go first after him.
    Altough you will need some +skill items to get him more durable, anyway this is a matter of personal taste.
    And about the synergies.
    If you want max damage then put all the points in bonespear, bonespirit and synergies (will altough not be finished until high character levels) and only one point in corpse explosion.
    Again you will need +skill items for CE to work better.
    Or more points in CE and few less for synergies (teeth is usually maxed last),this is also a matter of personal taste.
    I dont now what you plan to use in curses, I only use point in decrepify and prereq, and its enough.
    I have a dolio whitewand wich I not use anymore, you can have it if you want(it has a natural +3bonespirit).
    I use a whitewand with bonespear now, for this is the main skill I use, bonespirit for bosses.
    Dont forget (later when you find or trade for the equipment) to put a gull or alibaba on weaponswitch for mf bonus.
    I have the alibaba on main switch now.
    Also look for fungal grand charms.

    Ok, I think that is enough.

    regards

    nikstone
     
  7. farting bob

    farting bob Banned

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    you might want to slow down before you enter hell. you want to be in the clvl70's, and your 58 and in a5. jsut go as far as you can (hopefully kill baal) then do runs until you can gain alot of lvls. p8 and youll get there quite fast.
     
  8. whomhead

    whomhead IncGamers Member

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    since you are a pure bone skill necro, you shouldn't really have to worry about getting hit by monsters... just put a BP around anything melee or a BW around anything ranged and you wont get hit. given that, i wouldn't worry too much about getting max block, so there's really no point in putting any more points into dex. also, the necro shields have horrible blocking %, so you need LOTS of dex to make it worthwhile.

    you don't need any more strength - you've probably already used too much - so no more points there.

    the most important things for you to worry about now are mana and health. so, i'd split your remaining stat points putting 50 of them in vitality and 25 in energy, and i'd do 3 vit, 2 nrg for all your levels here on out. just keep an eye out for gear with + to % mana... stone of jordan (ring), frostburn (gauntlets) are both very handy.
     
  9. nikstone

    nikstone IncGamers Member

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  10. Araknis

    Araknis IncGamers Member

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    I use the same method. My boney has about 600 life and 1500 (don't have frosties yet) mana (Act V Hell). Boney's are pretty mana intensive so I reckon the more the better, as you rely completely on mana for killing and saving your @$$ you don't want to run out of the stuff.

    As a pure bone caster I wouldn't bother with max block, you're far better off with necro shields with +Bone skills. I've only got enough Dex (75) to carry Wizardspike. I use white on switch for extra damage. Bone armour is really handy for running to places like the pit and with synergies and +skills you only ever need 1 point in it, it's cheep to cast and can definitely save your life.

    I'd also strongly recomend something with teleport charges. Makes getting to the pit a lot easier and comes in handy if you find yourself swamped. It's also the only way to travel when doing Countess runs.

    As nikstone pointed out, a point in Clay Golem is very handy. He doesn't live very long (unless you've got plenty of +skills) but he attracts the monsters and slows them down long enough for you to set up your BW's.
     
  11. pharaoh

    pharaoh IncGamers Member

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    I have a couple bonemancers on realm, one ladder and one non, and when I got tired of the endless lag, etc, and came here, I built another. I'm lucky enough to have acquired the runes for Enigma- it was the product of a lot of countess runs back in v1.09, and cubing them up in the patch, but I realize many people don't have that as an option, especially if you're doing it without twinking.

    Besides the Enigma, most of my gear is fairly easy to get. I have Wizardspike, a really low-end Mara's (only 21 res, but hey, +2 skills) which could be replaced by a +2 necro skills ammy with resists, Infernostride boots (haven't found better for him), Peasant Crown helm (until I find a Shako or Kira's), Goldwrap belt (I really miss the Arachnid Mesh I found on realm ladder), Magefist gloves, Lidless Wall shield (until I find a Homunculus), and a couple Raven Frost rings (originally for the dex to use Wizardspike, but I since bumped my naked dex to 75 to remove item dependencies- I'll probably swap out one of the frosties for a Nagelring or something). Skin of the Vipermagi is just about the best caster armor in the game, and it's not too hard to get, either. Silkweaves are great boots for non-sorc casters, with the mana increase and +mana/kill.

    For stats, I think I have 60 or 65 natural Str, 75 Dex, and lots of Vit and Ene. I wouldn't put any more in Str; I personally feel 100 is a little on the high end, unless you have some specific gear in mind (Blackoak Shield, for example). Once you have the Str and (if necessary) Dex for your gear, and enough Ene so you can cast spells a lot, drop the rest in Vit. You want a lot of life, preferably more than mana, as this will prevent you being a target of the nasty Blood Mana curse from Succubi and Baal.

    For skills, when you're first starting, pump points into Teeth. Drop a point into Bone Armor too (but just the one). When you get to level 6, drop one in Corpse Explosion, and when you get to 12, grab Bone Wall. Pump Wall and Teeth until you get to level 18; then you get Bone Spear. You should have earned 19 skill points by this time- 17 level-ups, one from Den, and one from Radament- and minus one for Armor, one for CE, and one for Spear, this means you have 16 synergy points. Bone Spear will start out with very respectable damage. Pump it until level 30, then pump Bone Spirit as well. Which you max out first depends on which you find yourself using more.

    Ultimately, you'll want to max Teeth, Bone Wall, Bone Spear, Bone Prison, and Bone Spirit for a "pure" Bonemancer, needing 100 skills, plus two for the Armor and CE pre-requisites. Assuming you can get to level 99, that means 110 skills (98 level-ups + Den/Radament/Izual times three). This means you can have a max of 8 non-bone skills; less if you boost CE or something- and that's at level 99, which for most of us is a long way off. You don't need to worry about magic immunes until Hell difficulty, although some guys are pretty resistant- Plague Bearers in Act2 Nightmare really take a beating before they drop, for instance, and in Hell, some of the minotaurs need a strong pounding. Still, most monsters in the game will fall without too much trouble, assuming you stay alive long enough.

    For the magic immunes, though, you will be utterly helpless yourself. You have two choices here- run (not always a viable option), or get a good merc. I recommend a merc with good physical damage. I tried it with an Act3 cold merc on realm, and it didn't work very well. I had to sink a bunch of points into curses to get to Lower Resist, and he still killed way too slow. An Act1 rogue merc is a good choice- she has the advantage of not running into mobs too often, and she can hide behind your walls, if need be. Act2 mercs are another choice, especially the freeze aura ones. Slowing the pounding your merc receives gives him a chance to dish out some beats of his own, and if he's got enough life leech, he should be okay in most instances. Another big benefit of a melee merc is he draws mobs of melee attackers. There's nothing better than a tight mob of monsters when you want to lay down a few Corpse Explosions to thin the herd.

    Somewhere along the line, probably in Nightmare, sometime after you settle on what merc you want, you'll want a single curse- Amplify Damage. Amp helps any mercs except the Act3 guys, as well as significantly boosting the damage of CE, given that it's 50/50 physical/fire damage. If you have the misfortune of meeting something immune to both magic and physical damage, Amp can remove the latter immunity, so your merc can get the job done.

    For gear, concentrate on resists, fast cast, +skills, +mana, and +mana/kill.

    Now for some pointers on how to use some of the skills:

    Teeth- good early on, good when you're high level and you're playing easier areas, like MFing for twink gear, or rushing someone who's too lazy to play through on their own.

    Bone Armor- not too useful early on, but later in the game, when it's getting a hefty boost from Wall/Prison synergies, it's a real lifesaver. Despite the skill description that says it "absorbs melee damage", it will absorb any physical damage, melee or otherwise. This includes arrows, Fetish Doll explosions (it's saved me countless times here), and the Blood Star missiles from Succubi, which seem to deal physical damage, rather than magic or fire damage as one might think.

    Bone Spear- a staple of the Bonemancer. With synergies maxed and good gear, over 2k damage is not out of line. It's cheaper than Spirit and great for crowds, especially where you can line them up- it really shines in the Maggot Lair and Arcane Sanctuary.

    Bone Spirit- great for bosses and champions of all flavors, and also extremely potent in PvP duels, if a tad overbalanced for that.

    Bone Wall- ideal for slowing down mobs of melee monsters, stopping volleys of arrows and many elemental attacks, and even drawing attention away from yourself. Much to my delight when the patch came out, I found that your minions no longer attack your walls. In 90% of situations, Wall is far more useful than Prison.

    Bone Prison- this is best used for specific cases. Against Lightning Enchanted bosses, it's quite handy, letting you pick the boss off at your leisure, without worrying about getting electrocuted. It can divert the attention of Greater Mummies, as they often attack it rather than raise minions. Against act bosses, it's quite effective against Andariel, Duriel (no more running like a girl, and praying your stamina holds out), and Mephisto. Against Diablo and Baal, with their wide area attacks, it tends to collapse quite quickly, though.

    Corpse Explosion- in addition to damage-dealing, it's of great use for corpse removal. It's not generally of much use against Fallen, as the shamans tend to go down easily, but it's nice against the Reanaimated Hordes of Act5, and magic-immune Greater Mummies, as it lets your merc go for the real target, rather than wasting time with a zillion skeletons. I also regularly use it on Baal runs in Nightmare and Hell, as I never know if there's a Greater Mummy around the corner, about to raise all the Gloams and Fetish Dolls that almost killed me the first time.

    Amplify Damage- auxiliary support for your merc and CE, pretty self-evident.

    Now, some cavaets- when using Wall and Prison, know that there are some things they cannot stop. Ghosts are one. Pray you never meet a pack of mana-burn, extra-fast ghosts, especially if you don't have a strong tanking merc. They will also not stop lightning from Gloams, though they will stop lightning from the Heirophants in Act3. Bone Spear, Bone Spirit, Balrog/Shaman Inferno and Spear Cat javelins are likewise not stopped. I don't know if Inferno and javelins from players are blocked, though.

    Walls and Prisons act as magnets, too. Be very careful about using them when you don't want to draw fire from monsters offscreen. In particular, using them in an area full of Gloams is asking for death, as every Gloam within a three-screen radius will unleash lightning, much of it passing through your poor Bonemancer.

    The final caution with regards to Wall/Prison is try to avoid trapping yourself. Although it is rarely dangerous, it's always annoying, especially when the barb in your party Whirlwinds through it, the sorc Teleports, and you're stuck there for five mins, and all you can say is "Help! I've wallen, and I can't get out!"

    This is probably a lot more info than you wanted, though. I practically wrote an entire damn "Bonemancer: How-To" guide, heh. Methinks I should shut up now. :)
     
  12. nikstone

    nikstone IncGamers Member

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    I was thinking a little bit and felt i should clarify some things a little more.
    This is my first caster of any sort ever.
    I was using Porius guide to build him up (and suggestions from other people)
    I wanted to make a mf character.
    Now, no one ever tells you to build a bonemancer if you want a mf character.
    I must say the bonemancer (altough twinked) can run every popular spot in the game with a lot of mf (magic find) sucessfully, even the pits on players 8.

    ESD i dont really care how you will use your points and statistics as long you are having fun and are satisfied.

    In the CASE you want MF with your bonemancer, its all about speed, like with any other mf character and safety on second place.

    1.So, why do I recommend a clay golem?

    -because in many fights you dont need to cast bone prison or bonewall wich last 24sec. (timeconsuming), the clay golem (recast if needed) and your merc will be enough.

    2.Why do I recommend max or almost max block?

    -because it will give you a overall safer feeling when just running through areas trying to find something (waypoint)
    - because it can save your life if you get surprised by superfast and dangerous monsters (and archers and those little beasts that shoot stings at you),
    - it can save your life if you accidentally use another skill and not boneprison or bonewall.
    -with no block you have to walk/run carefully and cast BP or BW alot.
    -with good block you can walk/run around with much more freedom

    Therefore I dare to say that max block brings you more SPEED and SAFETY while being fast wich is as stated most important for mf characters.

    Yes Araknis, teleport is another sweet style of playing, I will use a teleport ammy of luck when I find one. :wave:

    Cheers
     
  13. esd

    esd IncGamers Member

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    Thank you for the advice, while I was waiting for replies I defeated Nightmare Nihlathak, Ancients and Baal, still level 63 though. I will split the points between energy and vitality - mostly vit because I have Frostburns. I also have act 1 fire merc at level 61 (trained from level 6 ). Equipment is all self-found and gives me +85% frw (really helped against ancients - they didn't even take down my bone armor) and about 120 MF.

    And sincere - the avatar is a piece from a larger image I found on the web some years ago - but that page is long gone now. It wasn't any specific character IIRC.
     
  14. Araknis

    Araknis IncGamers Member

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    Good point.

    @esd - I've got a bit of a thing for my act 1 fire merc too :D
     

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