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Advice Needed for a Magic Arrow Amazon

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by Cattleya, Sep 5, 2006.

  1. Cattleya

    Cattleya IncGamers Member

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    Advice Needed for a Magic Arrow Amazon

    I thought I would get some suggestions for some of the equipment and stat placement for my new Zon. I figured out some of it, but there are still some uncertainties. She will be SC, but I don't like dying.

    She is a Magic Arrow Amazon, and I'm going to be stacking as much FR/W on her as possible. (I had a HC MA Zon a while back who managed to find a bunch of nice FR/W gear, and it was a lot of fun. With RWM and Harmony, I think I can take this to a new level. :smiley: )

    The merc will be a Fire Rogue, probably using a Riphook for the OW and slow, but I also have a WWS available for her.

    Her planned skill placement:

    Magic Arrow: 10-20 (at least 13 with +skills)
    Inner Sight, Slow Missles: 1
    Critical Strike, Dodge, Avoid, Evade: Enough points to hit the diminishing returns with +skills
    Pierce: 9 with + skills
    Decoy, Valk: 20
    Penetrate: 10-20


    She'll need a fair amount of IAS. She'll need 42 for 9 frames, and 75 for 8 frames, and her weapon won't have any IAS on it. I'd rather get to 8 frames, since fast is fun, and part of the theme of the build.

    Here is the equipment I've decided on:
    Main Weapon: Harmony matriarchal bow (with +1 bow skills, 265% ED, and +3 Valk).
    Amulet: Cat's Eye
    Belt: Razortail
    Rings: Ravenfrost; Rare ring with dex, AR, resists, and life leach; Nature's peace in stash for when RIP is needed
    Helm: Rare coronet with + 1 Amazon Skills, +20 Dex, 25% Enhanced Damage, 20% FRW, mana leech

    So, that's what I've figure out, now for the other pieces:

    Armor: Obviously, Fortitude would be an obvious choice, but that ain't going to happen. :grin: So, here are the realistic options I can think of:

    Armor that would let me hit 8 frames:
    -Treachery: I already have one in a Dusk Shroud. The Venom could be useful, as well as the IAS. The Fade should be completely worthless, since the point of this build is to not get hit.
    -Twitchthrow: Some strength and dex, plus IAS, and I can stick a socket in it for some flexability. (Probably more IAS.)

    Armor that will likely stick me at 9 frames:
    -Lionheart: A little ED, nice stat boosts, resistances. I'd have to track down the runes, but that's nothing a few countess runs wouldn't cure.
    -Duress: The OW and CB would be nice, considering this will be a low damage character, but I've only got one Um rune, and I'd really rather save it for Crescent Moon for when I build a new Tesladin.
    -Gloom: Same Um rune issues as Duress, but I'd also have to get my hands on a Pul. I'm not sure I'm up to doing that many countess runs. Besides, all it really gets me are resists.

    Gloves: I have two main choices here that I can see.
    -Laying of Hands
    -These rare gloves:
    Glyph Grasp
    Leather Gloves
    Defense: 5
    Durability: 10 of 12
    Required Level: 37
    Item Version: 1.10+ Expansion
    Item Level: 49
    Fingerprint: 0x87c04d76
    +7 to Strength
    +43% Enhanced Defense
    Fire Resist +27%
    24% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items
    10% Increased Attack Speed
    +2 to Bow and Crossbow Skills (Amazon Only)​

    The rare gloves will only work with certain combinations, depending on how much IAS my other equipment has. Their other drawback is I would have to move them from my Vanilla pile to my RRM/RWM pile, but I don't really have a Vanilla bowazon planned.

    Boots: No real clue here. Obviously, I'm looking for FR/W, but that's pretty common on boots. I've got a decent pair of Natalya's boots I can pull over from my Vanilla stashes. Are their any better options you can think of?


    The other thing I am debating is the stat point distribution. Base energy and enough strength for equipment are obvious, but I haven't decided how to split up the Vit and Dex. I'm not sure I'm ready for a pure dexazon, especially considering I don't really expect to have good resistances. How much life should I aim for?
     
  2. Quickdeath

    Quickdeath IncGamers Member

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    I've played an untwinked Magiczon deep into Hell and I really enjoyed it. You're asking a lot of questions about rune words that I can't answer off the top of my head. But here's a few principles.

    1. I would go for Dex of at least 250 or so. You really need to layer on the various damage mutlipliers - dex, might aura, CS and Pierce (for when there's a crowd.) For that reason, I would tend to recommend a Might merc over a fire rogue. The Fire Rogue would be stylish, but when facing fanatical blood lords, etc. a rogue merc isn't going to cut it.

    2. I strongly recommend maxing MA. It makes quite a bit of difference. Its not necessary to max Decoy, IMO. My Valk was a lvl 25 - and I had only one point in Decoy. Deep in Hell, my Valk was my rock . When facing a mob, I found myself as the support archer for my merc - basically keeping the monsters around him frozen or in hit recovery so that he could survive. The Valk didn't need that help to survive. So, I recommend shifting skill pints from Decoy to MA.

    3. Facing a horde of archers was very hard - especially if they were multishot or fanatical.

    4. Entering pits was always treacherous -even if you're not instantly surrounded, you are sometimes chased back to the entrance - and then there's no where to retreat but out. You can't kill the monsters from outside a pit. That's why I needed a Valk+Merc wall (sometimes with Decoy) to tank the monsters while I stood away from them and shot them up.

    5. If you have enough elemental damage from charms and equipment mods then the "% physical damage converted to magic damage" will suffice for PIs. I kept a Skystrike on switch for PIs and for those monsters who were particularly vulnerable to lightning. A fire rogue with WWS will certainly help with PIs though.

    6. AR can be a problem because, as you know, the skill based enhancement of AR on all Bow and Xbow skills is bugged and doesn't actually provide any improvement to AR.

    Other notes: I think that LOH will be better than the rare gloves. +2 to Bow skills is not a big help with a Magiczon, but the ED modifiers on LOH are great. Boots: I think I used Natalya's, but I had limited choice. I used Infernostrides for fire damage for a stretch as well but I wouldn't recommend them. There's always Gore Riders, of course -since you have FRW from other sources.
     
  3. Cattleya

    Cattleya IncGamers Member

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    I know that a might merc would make a lot more sense for the extra damage, but I really hate baby-sitting them. :grin: The Rogue also has the advantage of Inner Sight, which helps the AR problem. (I could use inner sight myself, but that's 20 points I could spend elsewhere, plus another spell to keep track of.) If I get really stuck when I get to hell, I can always change over.

    I'm not too worried about tanks. I use Decoy a lot, and Harmony has charges of Level 20 revive on it for extra meat shields when needed.

    Harmony also has some healthy elemental damage on it, doing 55-160 lighting, fire, and cold damage. I also have a few 1-30ish lightning small charms I will probably toss on.
     
  4. salvo

    salvo IncGamers Member

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    A Completely diffrent alternative yet main theme compatible is to use Act1 merc and let her equip the Harmony. Her helm and armor should be DR and resistance oriented.

    -Your gear-
    Helm: mavina's with IAS jewel 45%
    Armor: Treachery 45%
    Amulet: Cat's eye 20%
    Weapon: upped WWS 40%

    total 150% IAS (7frame need 145%)

    You can alternate the WWS socketing with shael+Nef (knockback) or shael+eth (-def) and get the IAS from gloves. Ideal setup will be A crafted gloves with IAS+knockback and Shael+eth on the WWS.

    Thus you'll save points needed for MA and CS as WWS inherit slvl20 MA and %DS/clvl. My reccomendation for skill distribution:
    20 valk
    20 penetrate
    20 Decoy
    Pierce,Critical Strike, Dodge, Avoid, Evade: Enough points to hit the diminishing returns with +skills (as your plan)

    WWS will helps a lot for the resistance need, but I always invest points on vitality to avoid one hit kill and on my experience no less than 1k life is enough for that. But you should be pretty safe as your valk and decoy are both maxed (super duper strong are they?).
    Style points for using act1 merc and good looking pony tail with mavina's diadem well worth the setup too IMO. Goodluck.

    PS: If you like this setup I reccomend you to bid on Hepcat's auctioned WWS and IAS/maxdmg jewel.
     
  5. hepcat

    hepcat IncGamers Member

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    LOH are good gloves like you mentioned.

    You may try crafting a pair of hitpower gloves and a pair of blood boots. Both recipes are relatively cheap. I don't have a MA zon, but rather a strafer so you may/may not like the Knockback on the gloves, but it shouldn't take you too many rolls to craft a pair with 20 IAS.

    My zon had major negative resists in hell, which isn't a huge problem w/ the Valk or decoy tanking for you. Treachery is a great armor for the IAS and the chance to trigger Fade, if anything hits you (like the aforementioned archers).
     
  6. TedDeeBoy

    TedDeeBoy IncGamers Member

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    My thoughts on MA Amazons is they are defensive based builds because you play them slow and steady as lack crowd control, even firing at 8 frames and your gear has no knockback, granted the fire merc will slow targets with Riphook and have two good tanks with your Valk and Decoy. I see you have a preference for using a rogue over the other mercs.

    With a rogue selection something like a Delirium Tiara on the fire merc to confuse or blackhorns face and face or horror for the flee and slowing of monsters will provide that. However this maybe against your style as they are not very attractive looking on the merc.

    I assume your are trying SC so I would attempt to get at least 800 life which should give me about 1-2 hits from monsters at p1 in hell with nasty mods, but I hate dying even in SC. AR should not be a problem as you will allocate points to Penetrate and stats to dex.

    For gloves as hepcat suggested crafted hit power gloves with 20% IAS and
    other mods for areas with dangerous monsters. But overall LOH would give you more damage against demons.

    I would consider a cheap armour with OW like a Crow Caw which comes with IAS and FHR and dex, socket for one resist and IAS. This armour would assist you to hit the 8 frame attack break point with your Cats Eye and your rare gloves if you fervor your headgear and armour and kill with dual OW in tandem with your Merc and variety damage offered by your skill selection and Harmony. Add a poison charm to complete the set. However you may not tolerate the FR/W penalty of a heavy armour.

    Out of your selections I would select Treachery, to hit the 8 frame bp then get rid of the poison charm to allow venom to work properly then add the whatever gloves you desire.

    Some other considerations

    On switch have a considered the old untwinked play trick of wand of life tap with shield with terror charges for crowd control and life regen if required

    GL

    @Salvo. The free MA build idea would work nicely. WWS is a 0 WSM bow so requires 200 IAS to hit a 7 frame attack, 105 IAS for an 8 frame.
     
  7. salvo

    salvo IncGamers Member

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    Oh man... I miss-inputed right weapon on the weapon calculator, thanks for the correction :thumbsup:
     
  8. nebux

    nebux IncGamers Member

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    a good pair of boots are also War Traveller +15 to min +25 to max should give you good damage after dex and might
    gloves LOH and nothing else
     
  9. Jude

    Jude IncGamers Member

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    Why put 20 points into Decoy when you are already maxing out Valkyrie? Unless I am missing something, those points could be used to better effect elsewhere...

    Also, you may want to consider putting an extra point in Slow Missiles (for a few extra seconds), just so you don't have the missiles suddenly start acting normally right in the middle of a battle!

    Jude
     
  10. zarfen

    zarfen IncGamers Member

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    huge lifenobus to valk, + an extra nice meatshield.

    I syill dont get ehy you make a ma-zon instead of some other but itäs you call :D
    I made a messyzon (totally mixed up skills) using ma as leftclick, and then fa/strafe/multi on rioght, anyway, ma is a great skill once at level 13, mega arrows at no cost :D
    very effective due to the +dmg early on, and if you dont think you need it elsewhere, I suggest putting 20 into ma :) bigger dmg% conversion.

    and what an awsome helm :shocked:
     
  11. Cattleya

    Cattleya IncGamers Member

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    I rely on Decoy as much as the Valk, since I have control over the positioning of the Decoy. I know I can recast the Valk, but that's not always practical, and sometimes it's nice to have the valk head to one pack and throw up a decoy in front of the Archers. Decoy also goes down in mana cost as you put more points in it, which makes it easier to spam when needed. :grin: The fact that it buffs up the Valk is icing.

    As for slow missles, I already had that in mind. I'm hoping I'll have enough +skills that I will have a good duration on it anyhow, but I'm not afriad to put a couple more points into it if I find I need it. (The +skills plan is to get to a level 27 Valk, so after the harmony, I'll need +4 Passive and Magic to get there, so I'll probably track down a few skillers.

    @Salvo: I've used Harmony on the Rogue before, and it is a fun option. However, I found it was really easy to run out of the range of the Vigor aura, and I want to give it a go on an actual character. I'm sure I'll build a Witchy-zon of some sort somewhere down the line.


    Let's see, all of the gloves votes so far are for the LoH or something with knockback. I think I knew LoH would be better, but I'm looking for an excuse to use those rare gloves. Pehaps I'll save them for a Vanilla project somewhere down the line. I'm not a huge fan of knockback, especially for a single target slow kill skill like MA, so LoH it is. :grin:

    I'll have to look at the armors again when I get home.
     
  12. Ugla

    Ugla IncGamers Member

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    I have used magic arrow as a backup skill for my TWD3 magezon and it proved really strong even with one skill point in it. Seeing as how the skill doesn't grow much stronger (the AR is considered to be bugged, though I still felt to hit more than with normal attack), I would not increase the skill after reaching an acceptable mana cost.

    Considering previous posts:
    WWS: once tried almost perfect one with my SC bowazon and was very disappointed. I sacrificed the runes for an upgrade, but it was still significantly worse than the regular Lycander's Aim, mainly because the lack of the +skills. Still, it could be an option for the rogue merc, though I'm afraid that with her rate of fire you won't see amp(2%) on very often.

    AR: being unable to hit, you lose much more then by choosing a slower/weaker weapon. I haven't placed more points in penetrate in both cases, missed way too much and regretted later on. I definitely agree with high lvl, possibly maxed out penetrate.

    evasion skills: as you plan a very speedy character, just a few points could do, you should not be hit very often. Good news is that you don't need resistances either, when you are quick enough - player's skill for the hero's skills:) And beware big D.

    decoy and valkyrie: glad to hear someone also likes this skill, but don't place so many points in it! With 1-2 points (including +skills for me in TWD3) it was really a bit fragile, but a good use of decoy means frequent repositioning anyway. I'd say 6 points including +skills must do. The maxed val will hold on her own, esp. with additional +3 from Harmony.

    merc: unless you have some B.F.G for your rogue or use her for role playing reasons, you could try act3 merc. I also dislike act2 zealots, but with the revive charges, some aura could be nice. In 1.11, you can switch without trouble.

    equipment: I would consider some items from the Mavina's set, mainly the diadem and the belt. The Valkyrie Wing is also a nice FRW helm, but bareheaded zons are simply prettier. Getting 33% to pierce from Razortail is fine, but there are other options (Nosferatu's coil, Arachnid mesh or even IK's). You can save many points from Decoy and eventually place some of them in pierce, do not overestimate this skill, though. You have nice rare gloves; you can swap LoH with Ghoulhides when you find your APM under-used (pretty annoying, as the creatures tend to mix up). Lava Gout seems very nice, as does the Steelrend (never found any of these, and seeing the Str requirements for the latter..) The boots, well, supporting your revived minions with Marrowwalk, CB from Gore Rider, some MF from War Traveler? Maybe just something with nice FRW to increase resistances, attributes or whatever you would lack from other stuff. Twitchthroe rules from the start, though Stealth with IAS jewel may be even better later on. The Oak Sage from Nature's Peace would be valuable for all of your units.

    Because I'm very interested in this build (it's very high on my "intended" list), I'd like to know which surprise are you planning on the switch.

    Sorry for a long post, hope nobody was bored to death.
    Ugla
     
  13. Ugla

    Ugla IncGamers Member

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    edit:
    just realized the mistake I made yesterday. Stealth is a runeword, but you can place the IAS jewel in the helm to eventually reach some breakpoint. Still, there is another unique armor with +20% FRW which definitely could be socketed :smiley:

    Ugla
     

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