Advice for PvM Whirlwind Barbarian

[Barloc]

Re: Advice for PvM Whirlwind Barbarian

I see, so the only time were base weapon speed directly correlates to in-game IAS bonuses, is when selecting between weapons while looking at ww as your skill. So for example, making grief with a Zweihander (-10) vs a Berzerker (0) actually equates to a difference of 10% ias on the weapons, and Phase (-30) = 30% vs Berzerker. So 4 frame WW would need 34%ias(BA), 24%ias(Zwei), 4%(phase) etc.

 

[galzohar]

Re: Advice for PvM Whirlwind Barbarian

base weapon speed is also important for regular attacks... In fact, a [-30] weapon has a faster normal attack than a [20] weapon with 50% IAS from gear, since the base weapon speed isn't subject to diminishing returns. Normal attacks don't distinguish between WIAS and gear IAS (although they do seem to be ignoring WIAS on your left had weapon, while still taking base weapon speed into account).

For whirlwind, it's straight substracting. Also notice that if your weapon (after taking WIAS into account) is -10, getting 25 more WIAS will actually increase your attack speed (after the first 2 hits which are always fastest attack speed) by 50% (4 fpa = 1.5X the speed of 6 fpa). Going from -30 to -35 will have the same effect even though it's only 5% WIAS. Whirlwinding with 2 weapons will alternate between the delays of both weapons, so whirlwinding with a 4 fpa + 6 fpa weapon (and in this case taking each weapons WIAS into account seperately), you will attack every 4, 6, 4, 6... frames, resulting in 80% average attack speed compared to 2 4fpa weapons.

Another note is that dual wielding will only attack with right hand weapon on the first hit (not very important) but also have twice as many hits/second compared to weapon/shield or 2h which means double the chance of crushing blow applications while doing about the same damage as the combined damage of both weapons or a 2h weapon.

 

[BierWiser]

Re: Advice for PvM Whirlwind Barbarian

Unless it's a 40% IAS Grief Phase Blade, which would be 10% faster overall than ebotdzerker due to the base speed advantage (phase= -30 / zerker=0)

Oops, forgot to edit my post. I thought that's what you meant after I thought about it.

 

[Barloc]

Re: Advice for PvM Whirlwind Barbarian

Yes sir.And after looking at the difference between a Phase Blade and Berzerker Axe on switch skills (conc/zerk) the difference is much bigger then I originally thought. 42%(phase) total ias vs 125%(BA) to hit 9 frame conc/zerk. Thats pretty cool, especially if you wanted to use conc vs ubers with the same ww/Barb. Then all you'd need is HL with grief phase to hit max-cool?. TY for the clarification.
Any noticeable losses on range when using PB?

 

[galzohar]

Re: Advice for PvM Whirlwind Barbarian

PB is range 1, BA is range 3... Some would say it matters a lot, some would say not at all.

For WW range greatly improves mana efficiency and slightly improves your damage/second.

For all attacks range greatly improves your chance to hit monsters that run away from you.

 

[churinga]

Re: Advice for PvM Whirlwind Barbarian

PB is range 1, BA is range 3... Some would say it matters a lot, some would say not at all.

PB is range 2...

For PvM, it doesn't matter that much, but it is vital for PvP to have range 3.

 

[galzohar]

Re: Advice for PvM Whirlwind Barbarian

Yeah, my bad, PB is range 2 indeed, which makes it less of a problem. Again like I said, if it's running away from you, more range is very useful. Most mobs stand still and therefore it won't do much most of the time in PvE, but sometimes it comes in very handy even in PvE. PvP no sane person would stand in range of a WW barb so they will always be running away when in your range therefore range is a must for PvP obviously.

 

[churinga]

Re: Advice for PvM Whirlwind Barbarian

Right, I did an experiment with my Fury Druid friend. My WW barb could easily take him when he stand still and shift+Fury, when he was holding a Grief PB, and a shield. Then, he switched to an Eth Reaper Toll (range 4), and the difference is so significant that the advantage suddenly falls to his side.

 

[galzohar]

Re: Advice for PvM Whirlwind Barbarian

Of course he gained advantage, he was using a longer range weapon against a moving target, which is exactly when I said long range weapons become better.

But yeah I agree there's another factor of having more range than the other guy when it's melee VS melee.

 

[TheNamelessOne]

Re: Advice for PvM Whirlwind Barbarian

Everyone's talking about swords and axes, I thought you were 'supposed' to use a range five polearm with WW, isn't that what robopike and all that pike stuff is about?

I was reading some thread/guide just a few days ago (which I can't find now) which was about this.

 

[galzohar]

Re: Advice for PvM Whirlwind Barbarian

2h swords and all 1h weapons have an "easier" to reach WW breakpoint, making them usually better than the range 5 weapons. Range 5 weapons will usually either not have the IAS required or will require you to socket IAS instead of damage making them inferior, although there are cases where a pike/poleaxe win - for example BotD is best done in a GP for range 5 and fastest breakpoint, compared to less range same speed and same damage you'd get from a sword.

Another example is cruel war pike of quickness would do slightly more damage than a cruel collosus blade of quickness even with the pike needing shaelX2 and the collosus blade being able to get 2XED jewels. However if you happen to have ED/max jewels to put in the collosus blade it would come out on top.

Due to the common use of duped runes, the existance of grief runeword and the fact it's quite harder to get range 5 weapons to fastest WW breakpoint is why swords (or DW axes) are usually the weapon of choice.

 

[Barloc]

Re: Advice for PvM Whirlwind Barbarian

Plus duel weilding itself is hard to beat anyway. Big two handed weapons are style tho.

 

[galzohar]

Re: Advice for PvM Whirlwind Barbarian

Dual wielding is only hard to beat because of duped runewords, especially grief. 2Xweapons is usually slightly less damage than 1 2h weapon if you give both weapons same ED% and fastest WW breakpoint, but for 2 weapons you need to have 2 of those weapons... Which again isn't a problem with dupes. Especially when grief is so powerful and doesn't gain real damage for using in a 2h weapon.

 

[BierWiser]

Re: Advice for PvM Whirlwind Barbarian

I just noticed the range on some two handed weapons for WW, is it worth trying? I like unique characters, but good characters. I might wanna try a polearm for dueling.

 

[galzohar]

Re: Advice for PvM Whirlwind Barbarian

As long as you hit the last breakpoint with a high damage weapon, otherwise don't bother. The rest had already been said several times.