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About Ubber players and economics.

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by DundeeKahn, Apr 8, 2004.

  1. DundeeKahn

    DundeeKahn IncGamers Member

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    About Ubber players and economics.

    First off:
    I know I am a newcomer, so dont just kick me for what I am gonna say, right.

    Fact is I wandered in the single player forum for long before subscribing due to lack of time and a problem while registering (my mailbox was full so I havent got the account activation message...).
    As soon as I got ATMA into my computer, a 4 years long dream was about to begin: trading in Single Player.
    Them I came to Trade Thread and posted all I had, and what I was searching for.
    After a month I came to the conclusion that I am just stuck. Why?
    -There is a lot of Millionaire players here and I am not one of them;
    -Whenever someone searches something I have to offer (like IK stuff, or Guardian Angel or something good and cheap) you guys just give it;
    -As I am looking for a little bit harder to get stuff, I am not gonna get it for free, but you still wont need (almost) anything from me. We, the average players, are stuck with lots of under-to-nopriced stuff while not even close to that Windforce
    Take this as both a compliment (on your kindness) and a complaint (on always busting my trades). I would love to be a newbie and meet you people, but I (guess I) aint.

    Dundee Kahn
     
  2. Kremtok

    Kremtok IncGamers Member

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    I'm not sure I understand the nature of your problem, but I appreciate that you approached it in a polite and plesant manner. Therefore, if you could clarify for me a bit, and suggest a solutionn to your proposed problem, I would be more than glad to assist you in any way I can.
     
  3. sam_manzanza

    sam_manzanza Banned

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    What sort of stuff are you looking for man, I'm sure I could do a bit of MFing and find some stuff for you :)

    Sam
     
  4. Crazy Runner Guy

    Crazy Runner Guy IncGamers Member

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    Have you been checking the giveaway thread? I am not sure what you are looking for, but people regularly give away some decent items. I hope you get what you're looking for.

    crg
     
  5. Mr_McGee

    Mr_McGee IncGamers Member

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    The problem is that even if we didnt give any or those cheap but usefull items away you still would be able to trade for a windforce or other high level items. The people who own those high end items are also the people who do the biggest giveaways so in almost every case they already have a bunch or those cheap/usefull items so trading for them isnt of much use. Thats why you will probably never see a trade like a WIndforce for a couple exceptional uniques because by the time a person finds a windforce he/she will already have almost all of the more common items. Thats probably the biggest downside to a barter based economy when compared to a currency based one.
     
  6. DundeeKahn

    DundeeKahn IncGamers Member

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    The point is not getting free stuff, it is deserving it. You should really keep the way you are. It´s great, just not for me.

    Nevermind guys, I should just shut up and go back to pindle...
     
  7. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo IncGamers Member

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    You bring up a good point Dundee.

    Another contributing factor is that 1.10 dramaically increased good item drops. It's like it went on steroids - a well-built and lucky MFer will see it nearly rain green & gold. This puts so many good to very good items in the pool that trades are almost non-existent in the range you are looking for.
     
  8. DurfBarian

    DurfBarian IncGamers Member

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    I understand your complaint and it's one I've seen a few times on this board. There are lots of rich and generous people here, and nobody wants to see them go; but they can at times give away items that would be an important part of a mid-level trade between two other forum members.

    One problem is that the game is years old, so people have loads of items by now. Another problem is that ATMA has let Windows users become monstrous packrats. They keep absolutely everything and can mule it and give it away at a moment's notice.

    It's basically a case of asking the high-end folks to keep their big mouths shut when other people are trying to do something mutually beneficial with each other, right? :) It's all about the timing . . . or about making sure that you can do something for both people involved in a potential trade if you intend to do it for one of them.
     
  9. Crazy Runner Guy

    Crazy Runner Guy IncGamers Member

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    Depending on what you're looking for, I would go to Mephisto first. He's easy to kill and fast to get to, especially if you have rolled a good map. He can drop everything you would ever need for nearly every character, and you certainly can live just off Meph for your entire D2 career. I did for a long time. Then I moved to pindle once I became a member of the "millionaire players," if you even want to call me that.

    Also, you should realize that SPF'ers do LOTS of MF runs. Just look at the people who are within 20 items or so of their grail. This is because we get to keep our maps, but regardless, we do LOTS of mf runs.

    just keep at it,
    crg
     
  10. Crudesash68

    Crudesash68 IncGamers Member

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    There is a simple, if not necessarily fair, solution. Disallow giveaways in the trade thread. First of all, trading encourages community intertaction, so one could gather that a steady stream of trades voided because of giveaways endangers community spirit. On the other hand, you could argue that the spirit oif sharing is bolstered by such generosity, and "trickles down" to other players. But, we do have a giveaway thread, stickied at the top of the forum.

    Just a thought-I don't think we chould discourage sharing, but it might behoove us as a group to keep trading viable...or, run the risk of trades occuring only between really wealthy players.

    Steve
     
  11. DurfBarian

    DurfBarian IncGamers Member

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    That's a great idea, Crude . . . I'm all for strictly separating the trades from the giveaways.
     
  12. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo IncGamers Member

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    I support that idea as well. :thumbsup:
     
  13. Crazy Runner Guy

    Crazy Runner Guy IncGamers Member

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    The problem with that is that the giveaway thread is not a "GIMME ITAM" thread where people can ask for items. It works the other way around. Lists are posted and people respond to them.

    The trade thread works exactly the opposite way. People post ISO lists and people respond to those. Just yesterday I gave away an item because I didn't need it. I think giveaways in the trade thread encourage a sense of community because it displays the forums generosity in a different perspective than the giveaway thread.

    Originally when I got here some 7 months ago, I thought about this same problem, and realized that this is enevitable. Although we are getting new members all the time, there are many "elites" here that have stashes and mules full of items, making nearly everything available to us. Also, grailers don't help this problem at all, because they are all looking (I realize I am being VERY general here, but I believe this is true to most grailers) for the same items. Mang Song's Lessons, Stormlash, etc...

    Eventually, without generosity, I can see our little community practically self destructing because of our economy. The problem really lies in how to avoid this.

    Please think about what I have said.
    crg
     
  14. sam_manzanza

    sam_manzanza Banned

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    I don't really see a problem in people giving away items in the trade thread. I mean, the person is getting their item still and they dont give up one of their own. But, what is wrong, IMO, is being half-way through a trade and then backing out because someone offers you the item for free. If you start a trade you should finish it, unless you decide the trade isn't fair or don't need the item any more and even then I would still try and find a replacement deal.
    Only my opinion and if giveaways are banned from the trade thread I will support it and if they're not, again, I will support it.

    Sam
     
  15. DurfBarian

    DurfBarian IncGamers Member

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    Perhaps it should be. We can divide the two threads in one of two ways:

    (way 1)
    1. thread for trades (items offered for items)
    2. thread for freebies (items requested and offered for free)

    (way 2)
    1. thread for people offering items (for free or exchange)
    2. thread for people seeking items (for free or exchange)

    I don't think way 2 is a good one because the item-rich people will be able to swamp both threads with freebies.

    There is a real satisfaction component to trading. It isn't just about getting stuff you want; it's about knowing that you helped someone else get things they wanted too. A successful trade is one where both participants feel like they got the better deal, and where both participants feel like they're part of a mutually beneficial community.

    I think that ATMA, along with the amount of time the veteran players have spent on MF runs, is bringing about a situation where those vets will have to just sit on their stashes of items for the good of the SPF economy. We were all against the level 99 mules and all the freebies on those .d2s files that dii.net made available . . . will we feel the same when any new player can show up here and request any item up to exceptional level for a new character and get it almost right away?

    Just some more input. It's a good discussion and I'd like to se it keep rolling along.
     
  16. wildjinn

    wildjinn IncGamers Member

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    I know how you feel on this, Dundee. I started at this forum with nothing, basically, since I hadn't played seriously ever and probably not for a good 2-3 years at all. However, after a couple of months, I had some great people give me some sweet stuff after I had posted wants in the trade thread and I've been able to do some high-end MFing to be able to trade for higher-ranged items.

    Here's what I propose to partially alleviate this situation while maintaining generosity: If there's a trade obviously going on, and someone interrupts it to benefit only one of the traders, that person officially sucks. If there is no suggestion that a trade is yet taking place, go ahead and give stuff away. If you want to respond to a trade offer, just write something like "PM sent about your Grand Stick of Nerfing" in the thread, and no one should bust in on your trade--if they do, they're pretty lame unless they offer both of you what you're looking for.
     
  17. Crazy Runner Guy

    Crazy Runner Guy IncGamers Member

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    I think this is the same as we have it now, except for the bolded part. That would be the only change in our current system.
    I think that is an extreme that there will be a huge revolt against, and thus never get to. I realize the people here are very generous, but it can be implied that we also value hard work and character development by not rushing. Thus, I think that a continuous and very large giveaway of endgame items will never reach this extreme.

    crg
     
  18. Milamber

    Milamber Banned

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    I believe that if person A and person B are talking about items, person C should not offer one the item/s they are looking without being prepared to supply the other candidate with said item/s they are seeking.

    Is that understandable?

    I think we could contemplate a policy:

    A. You're looking for an item...post it in the Trade thread…if after a week you haven’t had any response, then post in the giveaway thread.
     
  19. Crudesash68

    Crudesash68 IncGamers Member

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    I was about to post something similar to Durf's response...but I guess I was too slow...that sounds mysteriously like it isn't Durf's fault....nahhh.:D

    I second the idea that the giveaway thread be modified. Mcghee's point about the barter system really drives home the point. By freely giving away items such as the IK Stone Crusher, we have removed it's rarity, made it an afterthought. Perhaps it is already that, on Bnet. Shouldn't an item of that quality be held more dearly?

    Steve
     
  20. TekkaZeroX

    TekkaZeroX IncGamers Member

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    I understand the problem that you have DundeeKahn. Recently, rich people like me have been giving away items in the trade thread for free. For a person like you, it can be devastating. Most of your weapons are on par with those weapons and you do not get many trades accomplished. It is a great boon to the receiver, but not to you. CrudeSash may have a point to avoid giving away items in the trade thread, but CRG is also right that it allows us givers to see what people need. The giveaway thread does not allow us to do that. Because of this, I think Milamber has a good point about waiting a week. That may work.

    Ugghh... Durf there is a big difference there. Those level 99 mules and weapons are hacked. These items were found under legit circumstances.
     

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