About skeleton and golem masteries

linkato1

Banned
About skeleton and golem masteries

Hello,

I've tried to find but haven't found an answer to the following question:

Does skeleton and golem masteries matter when summoning the skeletons or golem or do they affect the existing skeletons and golems?

I'd suspect that they affect the summoning but I'm not sure as Blizzard has done otherr peculiar things with the game.

Topi

P.S. The information section on necros is way out of date. Skeletons are useless after act1 norm, don't put more than one point in RS or SM? Cheez.

Same
 

Chimaira

Diabloii.Net Member
Golem+Skeleton Mastery matters when you summon your minions, so you can prebuff them...If you switch to a lower level of Mastery after you have summoned your creatures they will not be affected. Just be aware that if your Raise Skeleton skill drops too, you might loose skellies depending on how many skills you loose from you prebuff equipment compared to "normal" equipment.

I'm not sure what information section you are talking about...but most of the guides/FAQs in this forum are pretty accurate, so just stick to them.
 

batuchka

Diabloii.Net Member
linkato1 said:
Hello,

I've tried to find but haven't found an answer to the following question:

Does skeleton and golem masteries matter when summoning the skeletons or golem or do they affect the existing skeletons and golems?

I'd suspect that they affect the summoning but I'm not sure as Blizzard has done otherr peculiar things with the game.

Topi

P.S. The information section on necros is way out of date. Skeletons are useless after act1 norm, don't put more than one point in RS or SM? Cheez.

Same
Haha i think i know where that outdated info came from - Arreat Summit right? Ya think the guys are right - skelly/golem mastery lvls come into play when u summon and when you switch back to other gear they retain their attributes (AR, Life, dmg, etc) but you may lose some minions if your lvl of raise skelly/mages is reduced :D Cheers

p.s There it is also claimed that clay golem is the weakest of all golems and once u hit higher levels other golems are prefered hehe Hell Baal always cringes at the thought of my 4.6k life slowing clay golem and deceprify lol
 

Mad Mantis

D2/3 Necromancer & Witch Doctor Moderator
linkato1 said:
P.S. The information section on necros is way out of date. Skeletons are useless after act1 norm, don't put more than one point in RS or SM? Cheez.
The Arreat Summit often has incorrect info and old info. You can use the site for looking at items and runewords and such, but don't believe the skill descriptions.
 

Sszark

Diabloii.Net Member
I had the exact same question as the first poster, because I have been pre buffing my skeletons for a long time, and I recently noticed if you try to do the same thing with a paladin's Holy Shield, it doesn't work. HS always stays at your current level.

Thanks for clearing that up.
 

linkato1

Banned
Chimaira said:
Golem+Skeleton Mastery matters when you summon your minions, so you can prebuff them...If you switch to a lower level of Mastery after you have summoned your creatures they will not be affected. Just be aware that if your Raise Skeleton skill drops too, you might loose skellies depending on how many skills you loose from you prebuff equipment compared to "normal" equipment.

I'm not sure what information section you are talking about...but most of the guides/FAQs in this forum are pretty accurate, so just stick to them.
This quote is from:

http://www.diabloii.net/characters/necromancer/summoning.shtml

"Skeleton Mastery

Passive. "Increases skeleton and revived quality". This will improve the hit points and damage dealt of the skeletons, bone mages and revived creatures raised by the Necromancer."

Does not indicate if it does what it does when summoning or for existing skeletons.

Quote from:

http://www.diabloii.net/characters/druid/summoning.shtml

"Spirit Wolf

Passive Bonuses apply to Spirit Wolf, Dire Wolf, and Summon Grizzly.
Passive AR Bonus: +50% at Slvl 1, +10% per Slvl.
Passive Def Bonus: +50% at Slvl 1, +10% per Slvl."

Same kind of wording different effect.

The bonus given by Spirit Wolf is not calculated when summoning but every time the skill changes so it affects the existing summons.

So my reason for asking was to get actual info. I know the standard answer for prebuffing, then I read that it does not work for Druids. So my question is actually: Has anyone proved that Necros prebuffing works?

Topi

P.S. http://www.diabloii.net/characters/druid/summoning.shtml tells that skellies are no good after act1 norm.
 

Harleyquin

Diabloii.Net Member
It works. Without prebuffing my skeletons are armed with maces and don't wear full armour, with prebuffing they have swords and proper helmets. It's not just a visual effect, the non prebuffed skeletons die a lot faster and do a lot less damage than my prebuffed skeletons. Basically when you raise a corpse for a warrior, mage or revive the game checks your existing skill levels based on your current equipment, once the corpse is used the stats of the minion will stay regardless of your equipment switches and hence changes to your summoning skills.

Regarding the druid example I think you might be confusing synergies and hard points invested with prebuffs. I've used summoner druids with prebuffs and the minions I get retain their improved stats after I use my prebuffing equipment.

The diabloii.net website info on characters is completely irrelevant with regards to skill descriptions, the most up-to-date info on skill descriptions is probably best obtained through the forums.

P.S. I'm just giving an answer to your question, I don't claim to be an expert in this game. I'm just using my playing experience as a guide to giving the answers, someone more qualifed than myself might give a more definitive answer if this is unsatisfactory
 

Mad Mantis

D2/3 Necromancer & Witch Doctor Moderator
linkato1 said:
So my question is actually: Has anyone proved that Necros prebuffing works?
IIRC among those that did a check were NC, RTB and Myrahk. Apparently Harleyquin also did a check.
 

linkato1

Banned
Harleyquin said:
It works. Without prebuffing my skeletons are armed with maces and don't wear full armour, with prebuffing they have swords and proper helmets. It's not just a visual effect, the non prebuffed skeletons die a lot faster and do a lot less damage than my prebuffed skeletons. Basically when you raise a corpse for a warrior, mage or revive the game checks your existing skill levels based on your current equipment, once the corpse is used the stats of the minion will stay regardless of your equipment switches and hence changes to your summoning skills.

Regarding the druid example I think you might be confusing synergies and hard points invested with prebuffs. I've used summoner druids with prebuffs and the minions I get retain their improved stats after I use my prebuffing equipment.

The diabloii.net website info on characters is completely irrelevant with regards to skill descriptions, the most up-to-date info on skill descriptions is probably best obtained through the forums.

P.S. I'm just giving an answer to your question, I don't claim to be an expert in this game. I'm just using my playing experience as a guide to giving the answers, someone more qualifed than myself might give a more definitive answer if this is unsatisfactory

Quote from SP character guide for Druid Summoner:

http://strategy.diabloii.net/news.php?id=575

"XIII. Pre-buffing Summons

This is another difficult area in druid lore. The generic D2 view on pre-buffing summons is that when you switch back to the lower skill level you will lose any excess minions gained by increasing the skill, but the minions which remain will retain the higher skill level’s stats and bonuses.

Testing on the druid forums has seemed to indicate otherwise, however. While it has been demonstrated that Spirits, Vines and Ravens can be pre-buffed as normal, Wolves and the Grizzly don’t seem to follow the usual pattern. Allow me to illustrate by quoting Kirsty’s findings while testing Grizzly:
Originally Posted by Kristy

Example:

A) Level 5 grizzly has 70-100 base damage and a passive bonus of 65%.
This means the grizzly damage will be: 70*1.65 to 100*1.65
Grizzly damage will be: 115 to 165

B) If you add +2 skills after he is summoned you seem to keep the 65% passive damage bonus but the base damage will revert to that of level 7, namely 90 to 120.
The final damage of your grizzly will revert to: 90*1.65 to 120*1.65
Grizzly real damage: 149 to 198
Grizzly indicated damage from the level 7 description: 166 to 222

Recasting the Grizzly at level 7 sets the damage to: 166 to 222

C) If you now remove the +2 skills to go back from level 7 to level 5 you seem to keep the 85% passive damage bonus but the base damage reverts back to that of level 5, namely 70 to 100.
The final damage of your grizzly will revert to: 70*1.85 to 100*1.85
Grizzly real damage: 130 to 185
Grizzly indicated damage from the level 5 description: 115 to 165

Pre-buffing thus seems to help but only for the passive damage increase, not for the base damage. Since only the passive damage bonus will be pre-buffed, HoW, might, concentration, fanaticism don't benefit from high level recasts and gear switches.

To summarise then, the three passive-bonus summons only seem to retain their passive bonus at the pre-buffed level and not the damage/life associated with the higher summon level."

Topi
 

Harleyquin

Diabloii.Net Member
I have no way of proving or disproving your findings, my only question is how Kristy figured out the real damage of the summons despite the wrong damage listed on the skill screen. At any rate your findings seem to indicate that prebuffing does work on a limited level for the druids' wolves and bear.
 
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