Diablo IV, Diablo 2 and Diablo 3 Forums - Diabloii.Net
A thread about right and wrong.
Here is the situation. The SPF is becoming a somewhat ridiculous place to spend time lately. So many people are worried about "ethics" questions and moral things. This thread is mostly in frustrated response to that.
Here is the situation. I have a Mac. I cannot use ATMA. I can run my game in a window at will, switching back to full screen with a keystroke, as per the way Blizzard build the Mac version of D2. Is that cheating? No. Is that a question of right and wrong? No.
As I said, I can't use ATMA. This leaves me in an unfortunate position. There is no easy way to mule items. I get to make multiplayer games, run another user of the system and join those games and drop items back and forth that way. I have to be sure of permissions between character files in order to have my characters work and save properly--a huge hassle. So. What is my current decision?
I have duped items between my characters. Yes! I admit it. "But you'll forget where everything is and put multiple copies of items on characters!" Nope. I can account for every item on every character--I have duped onto three characters from mostly retired characters who keep their gear as it was when they ended. "But that's cheating!" No, it's not. It's on my computer, it doesn't affect the SPF in any way, since I've given up trading, and any characters that will ever come to an MP game are utterly legit. If I ever trade again, I'll make sure that people know the situation and my rules and, if they want, I can name the origin of every (completely legitimate) item on my characters. My characters thus "tainted" are frozen solid and untouchable.
This thread is basically being created as a backlash against all the "ethics" questions that happen here. Those questions are not ethics questions. Plain and simple. Attempting to draw concrete lines between right and wrong in diablo is extremely wavy, even with the "good" archangel Tyrael.
Those threads should instead be asking about what's appropriate for trade, or appropriate for MP games, or something similar. The lax use of moral vocabulary is unfortunate. That's all. What people do on their own computers is their business. If I found a Tyrael's Might using a seed command and wanted to keep it for my grail, you have no right to tell me that it's not a legitimate grail--it's my call.
Don't get me wrong. I am vehemently irritated by item packs and item generators and character editors, etc. but people that find their own items and play diablo 2 how they want to are still good people. many upstanding players have left because of the unfair zeal here, and many continue to leave (some obviously because this is an old game and for RL reasons...i'm not trying to be too general). let's keep this board a great source of information, as it is, and leave the legitimacy discussions more private and trade-related. Perhaps in a trade legitimacy question thread, even--that would leave the rest of the boards free of angst and frustration.
If you answer this thread with a "gosh, you're not playing legitly," realize that i dont care about your opinion about what i do on my computer. that's not the point. i'd just rather see this be a forum more interested in great diablo information and battle stories than fingerpointing and drama. lord knows we get enough of that in real life. from here on out, the only people that have a right to tell me what is right or wrong in this game will be the people with whom I MP (i'll get that worked out soon, you guys--RL has been killing me lately) and the people from whom I might trade in the future. If I'm labelled a "cheater" by you guys, that's really sad. It's absolutely possible to keep characters separate, as I do.
anyway, that's ny rant. I apologize for my varied use of capitalization. i hope that all of your weeks are beginning with a fanatastic monday.
Here is the situation. The SPF is becoming a somewhat ridiculous place to spend time lately. So many people are worried about "ethics" questions and moral things. This thread is mostly in frustrated response to that.
Here is the situation. I have a Mac. I cannot use ATMA. I can run my game in a window at will, switching back to full screen with a keystroke, as per the way Blizzard build the Mac version of D2. Is that cheating? No. Is that a question of right and wrong? No.
As I said, I can't use ATMA. This leaves me in an unfortunate position. There is no easy way to mule items. I get to make multiplayer games, run another user of the system and join those games and drop items back and forth that way. I have to be sure of permissions between character files in order to have my characters work and save properly--a huge hassle. So. What is my current decision?
I have duped items between my characters. Yes! I admit it. "But you'll forget where everything is and put multiple copies of items on characters!" Nope. I can account for every item on every character--I have duped onto three characters from mostly retired characters who keep their gear as it was when they ended. "But that's cheating!" No, it's not. It's on my computer, it doesn't affect the SPF in any way, since I've given up trading, and any characters that will ever come to an MP game are utterly legit. If I ever trade again, I'll make sure that people know the situation and my rules and, if they want, I can name the origin of every (completely legitimate) item on my characters. My characters thus "tainted" are frozen solid and untouchable.
This thread is basically being created as a backlash against all the "ethics" questions that happen here. Those questions are not ethics questions. Plain and simple. Attempting to draw concrete lines between right and wrong in diablo is extremely wavy, even with the "good" archangel Tyrael.
Those threads should instead be asking about what's appropriate for trade, or appropriate for MP games, or something similar. The lax use of moral vocabulary is unfortunate. That's all. What people do on their own computers is their business. If I found a Tyrael's Might using a seed command and wanted to keep it for my grail, you have no right to tell me that it's not a legitimate grail--it's my call.Don't get me wrong. I am vehemently irritated by item packs and item generators and character editors, etc. but people that find their own items and play diablo 2 how they want to are still good people. many upstanding players have left because of the unfair zeal here, and many continue to leave (some obviously because this is an old game and for RL reasons...i'm not trying to be too general). let's keep this board a great source of information, as it is, and leave the legitimacy discussions more private and trade-related. Perhaps in a trade legitimacy question thread, even--that would leave the rest of the boards free of angst and frustration.
If you answer this thread with a "gosh, you're not playing legitly," realize that i dont care about your opinion about what i do on my computer. that's not the point. i'd just rather see this be a forum more interested in great diablo information and battle stories than fingerpointing and drama. lord knows we get enough of that in real life. from here on out, the only people that have a right to tell me what is right or wrong in this game will be the people with whom I MP (i'll get that worked out soon, you guys--RL has been killing me lately) and the people from whom I might trade in the future. If I'm labelled a "cheater" by you guys, that's really sad. It's absolutely possible to keep characters separate, as I do.
anyway, that's ny rant. I apologize for my varied use of capitalization. i hope that all of your weeks are beginning with a fanatastic monday.