A spear wielder type ?

[jamazerto]

A spear wielder type ?

Hi I'm new so i'll present myself : I'm james, 19, student and was a great DII fan. I haven't read all threads but i don't think this idea was edited yet. It seemed good in my head so I'm really eager too know what you think of it. Thanks

New character for Diablo III

One of the great missed opportunities in Diablo II was the fact that you could find different kinds of spears but not a single good build based on this weapon. So i wanted to know if a real spear wielder would be edited in this new game. This is my vision of this char.
To make him original and powerful you would have to correct the reasons it didn't work in diablo II. To me the best solution is to provide this spear wielder with a longer reach than most close combat enemies making him a middle range fighter. The whole difficulty (and fun) would be to always have you enemies within your reach and out of theirs. However if you are able to achieve this stunt getting rid of most kind of enemies quickly and without loosing too much (or any) life could be achievable. He would have 3 kinds of skills:
_ combat skills
_ passive skills
_ strategic skills.

Before you say it looks like an amazon, it does'nt : the amazon was never able to fight effectively with a spear since most of its skills were oriented towards long distance weapons.

My ideas for the skills are :

combat skill :
_thrust : a basic attack that boosts damage and repels an enemy
_swing : you swing your spear to repel all enemies in front of you and within your reach with a little bonus damage
_piercing blow : you extend your arm for longer reach a bigger damage
_spinning spear : you spin you spear around you to deal damage and repel all enemies around you (small damage)
_jump : you use your spear as a pole to jump and stun enemies where you land
_tripping blow : you attack your opponent's feet making them trip (stunning effect)
_ charge : you rush towards your enemy dealing big damage to him and smaller to thse behind him

These are the basic skill I had in mind, higher levels skills could use elements, reduce the enemies defence, raise your attack speed and so on . You probably noticed most of these skills allow the spear wielder to attack multiple enemies, stun them or keep them at bay thus rendering different strategies possible when it comes to hit without being hit.

Passive skills :
_reach : a basic skill, it increases slowly your reach
_spear expert : raises damage while using a spear
_ dodge : I only write it once but like the amazon, as there are no shields for this char dodging must be an important par of his defense strategy
(_defend : raises your defense but i'm not so sure this skill stays in the spirit of the char)
_ revenge : provide a chance of hitting back enemies when hit (small %age but big damage?)
_critical strike : unavoidable...
_stun ?
_block : allows to block elemental attacks using your spear
_ poison : adds poison effect to your attacks ?

You can still add stuff that raises your chance of hitting , resistances to elements.

strategic skills :
_rush : allows you to run very quickly for a short time
_distract : greatly diminishes a a group of enemies damage for a very shot time ( point attributed would raise the %age and the size of the area concerned)
_ silence : stops an enemy from casting spells
_ drain : drains an enemy's mana replenishing yours
_ trap : enemies trap can't move and receive damage per second for some time , however the enemies must walk on the trap, it won't work if you throw it on them
_ hook : brings an enemy within your range
_retreat : you jump back

These skill would allow you to take minimum damage while approaching enemies or establish real strategies against minions guided by a chief.

About : The really useful combat or strategic skills could have a recast time however the casting time for strategic skills should be nearly instantaneous as they are to be used in combat. Because must passive skills are really useful you shouldn't give a big %age on the fist level like in Diablo II , so you must really invest in two or three particular skills for them to be effective.
This char could very well watch over a close range fighter or protect a caster type so it could fit well in any party it incorporated.
The word spear could also be polearm or any long weapons. High level spears would REALLY have a long reach.


Design, story and name :
One of my ideas was to make him the mercenary that followed the hero during Diablo II (even though he doesn't have any auras) making the most knowledgeable char about the past and also providing a design for him (only the style).
Otherwise making him completely new like a Asiatic type spear wielder with more of a samurai look. Either way I don't have a good name for him.

 

[Kalara]

Re: A spear wielder type ?

Interesting and well thought out idea. What I really like is that it opens up a totally new combat mechanic instead of the same old melee or ranged. Keeping enemies at a slight distance instead of attacking from afar or being up in their faces is something I haven't heard tossed around before. When you mentioned the Act II merc I thought of an old post about a desert warrior class idea that sprouted from Jay Wilson commenting on a "Dervish."

This is the link to the old thread.

I would love to give this class a go when soloing. The only problem I see with it is when it comes to multiplayer. A melee Barbarian and a ranged Wizard could co-exist quite happily. However, I can see it frustrating the melee classes to keep getting their targets thrown out of their weapon range. Don't think this would be an obstacle that couldn't be overcome and if anyone can do it Blizzard could, just something to consider.

 

[akboy]

Re: A spear wielder type ?

I like the idea of spear skills, but we don't want a class based around one weapon type. Each class should have enough variety in its skills that it can fit different roles depending on what skills you give it.

Plus, I think Blizzard is trying to avoid a class with only one combat skill tree. Maybe this character could combine those skills into one tree, called Spear skills or something, and then have other skills in other trees.

What's the point of having both jump and retreat? You could use jump to get away from enemies if you needed to get away, which would make retreat useless.

 

[knightmawko]

Re: A spear wielder type ?

I like the idea of a spear class and the first tree being spear skills, but then after that it looks like a Paladin crossed with an Assasin, traps and passives? A whole tree of passives? Think of some nice mythology to go around it, Ive changed my own spear class concept tons of times, it went from a dragon based lancer, to a phoenix worshiping lancer and now if I were to enter a contest on this site cough cough and just for fun I turned him into a follower of Trag Oul, much like the necro but with completely different skills, who uses spears principally, but still is skilled with other weapons.

I mean, this just looks like a bornig Paladin, but with the sweet bonus of having a spear, no offense just the skills are bland and no exciting backstory. And as for a name, go with a classic, Lancer, Hopolite, I suddenly like the name Tactition, Dragoon, Halberdier (I think I made that word up) etc etc.

 

[NASE]

Re: A spear wielder type ?

I agree, it's an interesting idea to use a spear like that. Yet the class doesn't feel right. The two non-combat skills forinstance need to change, just throw them together or combine them in one tree.
And I don't get the elemental skills for the combat skills. Why would that character use elements, it seems to have no alignment with elements what so ever.


Anyway, at least one of the last trees has to go. Yet it's interesting to think about would come as a replacement. We don't want to combine it with ranged skills - as that would ruin the idea of the class and make it much like the amazon right. So perhaps something like a battlemage? Using magic at midrange and to keep monsters there?
Isn't the druid is a big weapon user. A spear is a big weapon...


@ Kalara: I think there won't be many problems with multi player. There will be more the enough monsters to take them on separately and if not, this class can fight over the shoulder of the barbarian.
I mean, that's the idea of the class, right, fighting at midrange.

 

[BigKevSexyMan]

Re: A spear wielder type ?

I think your skill tree names(and possibly skills) could use a little reworking. Dividing it up into Combat, Passive, and Strategic comes off as a bit bland.

 

[jamazerto]

Re: A spear wielder type ?

Hi thanks for the answers. I understand the notes that generally said that there wasn't enough material to a whole character based on this but as to me one of the unrevealed class must be a fighter maybe this could be included and be one of the possible builds for that class.
I also agree the skills lack some class, the only thing i'm really proud of in this char is the principle of midrange fighting. However maybe a druid style could very well fit the missing magic in this char from my point of view.
Oh and if have an idea on how to change lancer ? tactician ? please post'em i'm eager to see this build become likeable and powerful .

P.S. : thanks for the names knightmawko, they all sound great. Another good one from Kalara : "dervish" would be great if he was a holy warrior.

 

[BarbaQ]

Re: A spear wielder type ?

YES! I always wanted a spear using char in D2 back in the days, but there really wasnt any char that could provide that as you pointed out. Like the idea of modern thinking, not just magic and hand-to-hand melee...just to give it little more...reach.

However in D2 bosses usually came up to have bonuses and some spells etc didnt work for them, in this case if the boss could never get stunned (to keep difficulty high enough) and those sweeping leg tricks wouldnt work either...i am seeing the character kinda good and fun vs mobs, but maybe boring vs bosses?

Anyways nice roundup build, dont wanna bash anything :thumbup:

 

[NASE]

Re: A spear wielder type ?

Skill like impale - huge but slow single target damage - or fend/jab in combination with crushing blow should be enough for bosses.
And the loss of range should be that much of a problem versus a single target. it's a dexterous build so dodging a single opponent should be possible.

 

[Rothos Carthaginos]

Re: A spear wielder type ?

New name Ashigaru.
Maybe provide some personal boosts based on honor and that would make older weapons as in age stronger.
As the older weapons can be declared ancestral.

 

[jamazerto]

Re: A spear wielder type ?

barbaQ : I noticed that usually the bosses on which repel and other stuff don't work are big and thus have a long reach so the hero would still be able to fight at his ideal range even if doesn't repel the enemy.However he surely isn't a tank so he would have to count a LOT on dodging and blocking.

 

[saltybawls]

Re: A spear wielder type ?

I didn't have time to read all the replies, but here's another angle you can take with this class.

The General
Keep the spear-weilding as a fundamental theme, and have a spear-combat tree.
Add in tactics-based skills that wind up playing sort of like auras or barbarian shouts, but perhaps more immersive. What i mean is, they could even do stuff like "focus fire," where he marks a target or targets (which illuminates) and then receives extra damage b/c of the tactical advantage of focusing attacks. There could be tactical skills that negatively affect monsters, or positively affect the group. something simple like "stand together" that increases everyone's defence, or "strength as one" that increases attack power (could even make it based on how close you actually stick together).

Before I keep adding on to this (i'm sort of making it up as i go), what do you guys think of this angle?

 

[Fernandus]

Re: A spear wielder type ?

Welcome to the forums! I'm new too.
It is a well fleshed out idea, it reminds me a lot of a Shaolin Monk, maybe if you went in a similar direction, agile/kamas/spears/martial artist who can take control of the distance and is a dinamic damage dealer (in that his skills rely mosly on well placed swipes and stunning attacks) then the class might be more in tune with what blizzard is thinking.
Maybe he can catch arrows!
Maybe his weapon ignores armour!
Maybe he can systematicaly disarm his enemies!
Does he need a weapon? or are his fists and agility enough?

All things considered I would love to play a character that takes everything you put foward because it seems to me like something very tactical and fun.

 

[LittleOldLady]

Re: A spear wielder type ?

Generally, I want to see a character which plays differently than "a slightly different barb", which I think this can be. You could add a skill which is like a 'bone prison' for yourself, to keep enemies at bay (they'd need to either damage it, or take damage passing through).

Also, the characters so far have a mix of passives/actives in skill trees, so some rearrangement into "thematic" rather than "gameplay" categories would be better, if the y're named/designed appropriately.

Finally, Blizzard have said they want critical hits to be more important, and specific weapon types to be less important for certain builds, so perhaps the class could use any weapon which can stab at long range (which includes polearms, spears, javelins, even some axes et cetera) and critical hits could pass through a target to attack something behind?

 

[jamazerto]

Re: A spear wielder type ?

The General

There could be tactical skills that negatively affect monsters, or positively affect the group. something simple like "stand together" that increases everyone's defence, or "strength as one" that increases attack power (could even make it based on how close you actually stick together).

Before I keep adding on to this (i'm sort of making it up as i go), what do you guys think of this angle?

The idea of making this character a leader as he is in the middle of the battlefield (between the barbarian and the wizard) really sounds good was also appealing to me. Merging the three trees already existing and making a new one, "leading skills", sounds good. Especially the shouts which effect depends on the distance of the target. Also skills forcing enemies to focus on him would suit well this idea.
This way the tactical aspect of this char stays as good (even better maybe) and he really fits in a party.