Latest Diablo 3 News
DiabloWiki Updates
Support the site! Become a Diablo: IncGamers PAL - Remove ads and more!

A Really, Really, Really Long Essay on What Precious Little Evidence

Discussion in 'Diablo 3 General Discussion' started by Thirty-Thirty, Jul 5, 2008.

  1. Thirty-Thirty

    Thirty-Thirty IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2004
    Messages:
    1,094
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    255
    A Really, Really, Really Long Essay on What Precious Little Evidence

    Ahoy all,

    I've been watching all the speculation keenly since I got back to my PC after the WWI weekend. Speculating is addictive, and, to be honest, claiming that the final boss will be Arthas might be as possible as anything else we come up with. That said, there is a small amount of evidence that we have to work with, and makes some scenarios appear more likely than others. I thought it'd be worthwhile to sit down - now a week later - and gather what we know, and what we think of it.

    The only thing we might claim to know is that Azmodan and Belial will feature prominently, at least initially. This is based on an interview (which I now can't find...) with some Blizzard employee who invited fans to count how many of the seven evils remain.

    We also know Deckard Cain will be present, and his rescue will probably serve as some initial quest. (This is from the website and the gameplay video.) The FAQ says, when asked of the story:
    This raises the question of whether Cain has been corrupted. However, no-one can say that this is necessarily implied by the statement, since it might just mean some beasties have stolen him away.

    I should mention that Adria - or maybe her progeny - will probably feature. She's singled out as a resident of Tristram in Cain's Journal on the official site, which is a source of the backstory for newcomers. I have no idea what she might be up to, but I'm quite sure she'll be around.

    And what of the Prime Evils? Any Diablo game is expected to culminate in a battle against Big D (or some minor variation) in the end. The expansion is open to many more options, but facing the red guy is almost certainly how the game will climax. However, Big D - and Meph - are in trouble: their soulstones were destroyed. Okay, Big D's might have been destroyed:
    We know that he (Diablo) was defeated: we did that ourselves. But we didn't smash the stone... Presuming he comes back for a climactic battle, this needs explaining.

    Fortunately, for Blizzard at least, there's the relatively unexplained phenomenon of the Worldstone. In the game, there is a minor indication that the Worldstone holds the worlds (which are presumably the High Heavens, Sanctuary, and the Burning Hells) apart. From the very end of LoD:
    The only supernatural being on our side doesn't know what he's doing! It appeared then that a corrupted Worldstone would give Hell an edge, but destroying it would even the playing fields. The indication given in the Sin War Trilogy (which I have not myself read) seems to be that, in addition to holding the worlds apart, the Worldstone
    • conceals Sanctuary from the warring Heavens and Hells, and
    • prevents mankind from evolving again to it's power as a race of demon/angel hybrids.
    I won't pass much comment on this, because I've only read this in other threads. It's all consistent. The first point might seem dubious, but I'm under the impression it became moot when Lilith revealed the existence of the third realm created by Inarius, i.e. Sanctuary, to the folks in Hell.

    What "barriers between the realms"? Recall Tyrael's speech when you find him in Tal Rasha's tomb at the end of Act II in D2:
    Those powers. But if the Evils could sew terror, hatred and destruction around Sanctuary without trouble pre-soulstones, why conspire to have them made (as is revealed when you defeat Izual)? This is murky at best. It suits the Horadrim, because then they believe they can imprison the Prime Evils. Why would the Big 3 do it? It seems they might be more powerful when contained, and able to control powerful emissaries: Meph got Sankekur, and conquered the Zakarum; Baal got Tal Rasha, leader (right?) of the Horadrim; and Diablo got himself a powerful adventurer, strong enough to defeat the spirit physically single-handed. They might get an edge over the "barriers between the realms".

    Back to the question of fighting Big D in the end if he has no soulstone. It seems that spirits will be able to drift in and out of Sanctuary without facing any detriment to their powers. Not good for us, but good for Blizzard's writers. Just about anything might've happened to the spirits of the Prime Evils, including the possibility - which has had some support in other threads - that the three brothers evolve to some combined corporeal form. This is supported by little more that the three mouths on (what we think is) Big D at the end of the cinematic trailer. It'd be cool, and consistent, so it's a possibility.

    So what's been happening in the world? According to Jay Wilson:
    It's only our best guesses as to why this invasion didn't happen, and why we're seeing so much of it in the cinematic trailer. (Aside: the armies of Hell may simply have been part of the girl's - Leah? - vision of "what the darkness hides". We don't know that those demons are walking Sanctuary... yet.) There are plenty of reasons for the invasion not to have happened. Maybe Azmodan and Belial are still not getting along enough to mount an offensive. Maybe there's trouble because the Big 3 are re-incarnate. Maybe it's taken time for the strength of the Worldstone to happen. Maybe some angels got involved. Who knows.

    However, much (most?) of the debate has centred around our white-winged ally of Diablo 2: Tyrael. (The coolest-looking angel ever, IMHO.) So what do we know? Well, he destroyed the Worldstone. We know it from the cinematic at the end of LoD, and it's even reproduced in the cinematic trailer. But what of him?

    It is very possible (but, as with all the speculation, very far from certain) that Tyrael arrives in the cathedral riding a meteorite. (His meteor spell must be slvl99 or something.) The chief evidence is because the Blizzard website shows an angel standing in what appears to be the Tristram Cathedral (in the cinematic), since the same candles appear on the right. Let's not get ahead of ourselves: this could be any angel, say Hadriel (remember him?), since it's a safe bet we'll be seeing many more of their kind in D3. Why might it be Tyrael? As a non-fan, the only angel you'd've seen so far is the guy in the cinematic tossing his sword into some rock. (Seems a waste: it's a nice sword.) We just happen to know that's Tyrael, so, without introducing anymore angels just yet, that'd be Tyrael in the cathedral.

    Tyrael also has hundreds of reasons to choose from for coming to Earth. He's been intervening more than the Heavens deem appropriate, so they may've tossed him Sanctuary-ward. He might just have disagreement of principles. Maybe he brings a warning. Maybe he's a bit disillusioned by what's happened after he decided to destroy the Worldstone. Again, who really knows. But if we are going to create scenarios where the slvl 99 meteor has brought down Tyrael, we do need some reason.


    So finally, there's the most controversial question: has Tyrael been corrupted? This is principally from the Diablo 3 website, which says:
    In particular, the "failing luminaries" might include Tyrael, but as with the guy in the cathedral, it could be a new character. There've been claims that the white and red of the logo supports this theory, but I think that's going a bit far. But for a few suspicious circumstances that need explaining and a vague line on the site, it's just an idea. It has a lot of support, because it certainly has the "cool dark twist" appeal. It can be made consistent, but it's honestly about as likely as Tyrael still being clean. Tyrael may well be corrupted during the course of D3, but it remains, like everything else, to be seen...

    Whatever Blizzard do, I'm sure it'll be great, and I hope they don't pay too much attention to fan demands. Each of Blizzard's three franchises is a top-seller and critical success. They know what they're doing, and I hope they just get on and do it.

    If you read this far, you either have too much time, or, like me, not enough, but spend it on the wrong things... :coffee:

    30-30
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2008
  2. Thirty-Thirty

    Thirty-Thirty IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2004
    Messages:
    1,094
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    255
    Re: A Really, Really, Really Long Essay on What Precious Little Evidence

    As an appendix, I guess it's worth taking a stab at what's coming up in D3.

    To start, I imagine the player will soon find themselves in Tristram, looking for Deckard Cain, and meeting a few folk along the way, very possibly Tyrael. Tyrael will give us a hint as to what's been happening up above, and possibly mooch off somewhere else, charging you with some things to do before you meet again.

    I imagine the first real developments will stem from Azmodan and Belial's forces arriving through the Arreat Crater. I don't think they're there just yet: Leah (?) may have just had a vision that has not yet come to pass. (Think WC3 intro.) As the battle rages to keep Hell's minions out, I think it'll start to become clear that the brothers have survived, and how. Eventually, you'll piece together a way to stop them just before some sort of triumph, and have the showdown.

    Besides this, I think the High Heavens will be getting in the way. This is real speculative territory, because we've only met Tyrael, really. I hope the High Heavens decide Sanctuary is a bit of a liability, and get a bit overly ruthless about keeping it clean of demonic influnce. This should give us a fair bit of tension between Tyrael having to choose between humanity and angeldom, and a chance for us to fight some angels.

    Basically, I'm going for all out war between the Heavens and Hells, and mankind fending essentially for itself in between. Should be fun.
     
  3. Tsumaru

    Tsumaru IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Re: A Really, Really, Really Long Essay on What Precious Little Evidence

    It's good to see some speculation without the "I am right, this is undeniable" addendum for a change.

    Just one point - I thought it was pretty clear that Deckard Cain is not corrupted and not in any real trouble. Why? The bloody gameplay trailer! You find him, he looks pretty good and healthy, and he goes home in a nice shiny portal. Either they've tweaked the convo for the trailer to avoid any giveaways, or I suspect if something shifty had happened - he would have said something about it. Rather than just a wry comment about Leah nursemaiding him.
     
  4. Paladuck

    Paladuck IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2004
    Messages:
    144
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Re: A Really, Really, Really Long Essay on What Precious Little Evidence

    A solid read, well-researched and very informative.

    As it stands, this is all make-believe and Blizzard can use magic and made-up things to explain away any inconsistencies that might arise. But its still fun to guess =D
     
  5. Alkey

    Alkey IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2008
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    5
    Re: A Really, Really, Really Long Essay on What Precious Little Evidence

    Excellent post summing up what real info is available so far. Thank you. I too am expecting an all out heaven vs hell with us in the middle epic hack a slash. And at least a couple surprise twists.
     
  6. DWS

    DWS IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2008
    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    42
    Re: A Really, Really, Really Long Essay on What Precious Little Evidence

    This is a good post - though I doubt Arthas is the final boss. :crazyeyes:
     
  7. Corkee

    Corkee IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2008
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Re: A Really, Really, Really Long Essay on What Precious Little Evidence

    About Deckard Cain. It was always my impression that the following might've taken place prior to him going missing:

    He tells Leah that he will be searching for further proof of what happened during D1 in the presumably empty catacombs of the cathedral in New Tristram. We've already been given information that New Tristram is built partially on the toils of looters who clean out those very same deserted catacombs within the 20 year span between D2 and D3.

    Cain goes down into the catacombs with a few assistants (archer mercenaries we see in gameplay trailer) to search for more scrolls to shed light on the evidence of the threats of hells minions. What happens now is murky, either he goes missing and nothing else happens. Or he does down, and isn't missed exactly - but Tyrael descends from the heavens and warns Leah that Cain is in grave danger to a reawakened threat that needs to be dealt with. Leah seem to be reading scrolls inside the cathedral in the light of the candles on the skulls we see in the trailer. *Again, all of this is presumptions* I doubt Cain would venture down to a dungeon overflowing with hells minions willfully...

    Where people see Cain and/or Tyrael being twisted in all of this is beyond me :) But it proves a very nice excuse for our PC hero to tear of a Broken Table Leg and go down into the catacombs to search for Cain :)
     
  8. onishin

    onishin IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2006
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    26
    Re: A Really, Really, Really Long Essay on What Precious Little Evidence

    What if Tyrael IS the meteor? (falling from the heavens)
     
  9. IhatePindle

    IhatePindle IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2007
    Messages:
    114
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    33
    Re: A Really, Really, Really Long Essay on What Precious Little Evidence

    Wanted to add, in the initial QnA
    Could consider it as a hint to Tyrael being affected by the worldstone's boooom...
     
  10. Thirty-Thirty

    Thirty-Thirty IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2004
    Messages:
    1,094
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    255
    Re: A Really, Really, Really Long Essay on What Precious Little Evidence

    Eh? Interesting. Someone else had suggested that, and it sounded like a crazy idea to me, but maybe Blizzard are thinking the same thing... I hadn't seen this Q&A before.
     
  11. Twistedmill

    Twistedmill IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2008
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Re: A Really, Really, Really Long Essay on What Precious Little Evidence

    The part where Cain mentions adria in his journal is before the events that happen in d1. The journal ends right before the worldstone is destroyed, so there really isn't a lot of information to be gained from the journal about the current state of affairs in Sanctuary.
     
  12. Rhiana

    Rhiana IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2008
    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    41
    Re: A Really, Really, Really Long Essay on What Precious Little Evidence

    What if Tyrael stays behind to try and do the job of the worldstone? Sort of an Atlas thing?
     
  13. NecroD

    NecroD IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2009
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Re: A Really, Really, Really Long Essay on What Precious Little Evidence

    that could be possible but in the game trailer hes in the d3 game so maybe he in the search for the evils and tyreal is not corrupted from what i seen of him in d2
     
  14. Flux

    Flux Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Messages:
    6,710
    Likes Received:
    62
    Trophy Points:
    472
    Re: A Really, Really, Really Long Essay on What Precious Little Evidence

    This thread is quite old, but since we've not gotten any more plot info since the WWI, I guess speculation is still all we can do.

    I'll offer one correction/different interpretation. The scenes of the huge demon armies in the cinematic intro are not Leah's visions; they're flashbacks to what was happening in Act 5 of D2X.

    I don't have a quote for this, but I recall some bliz d3 interview talking about how Baal's forces were continuing the assault on the larger Barbarian cities while Baal was doing his thing with the Worldstone corruption project.

    Those are Baal's armies in the D3 cinematic, as they assaulted the main Barbarian city. Harrogath was just a small town. They were gathered to destroy the barbarians utterly, when Mt. Arreat blew up from the Worldstone. (That's why Tyrael's shown throwing his sword into it in the D3 cinematic). That explosion created the vast crater, seen in D3 cinematic concept art from the PoV of guards atop the city walls. The explosion demolished Baal's forces, plus Baal's defeat and destruction loosed his mind control over them, and they returned to a vicious rabble, rather than an organized fighting force, thus ending their threat to the Barbarian's fortified city.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  15. DWS

    DWS IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2008
    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    42
    Re: A Really, Really, Really Long Essay on What Precious Little Evidence

    I always kind of thought that the structure in the back was the destroyed worldstone and that's what blew up.

    I also kind of felt that Harrogath was the last standing Barbarian city. Is there not text somewhere that states how all the other cities had fallen one by one?

    Flashbacks are pretty common for Blizzard however so you may be correct.
     
  16. CCCenturion

    CCCenturion IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2009
    Messages:
    664
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    255
    Re: A Really, Really, Really Long Essay on What Precious Little Evidence

    Just a note on the possibility of Tyrael being corrupted--or rather, the "evidence" that Tyrael has been corrupted.

    Even if he is riding the comet, and as the D3 site says the comet carries a dark omen, that doesn't necessarily mean that Tyrael has been corrupted. We know that Tyrael usually doesn't show up with good news. If you see Tyrael, then you know he's there to warn about something evil.

    In other words, even if a good Tyrael came down to Sanctuary on a comet, that would be a bad omen since he would most likely have some bad news to deliver.
     

Share This Page