A New Twist to the Koran Flushings

AeroJonesy

Diabloii.Net Member
A New Twist to the Koran Flushings

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/06/03/guantanamo.quran/index.html

cnn.com said:
Detainees, not soldiers, flushed Quran

Soldiers kicked, splashed urine on holy book


Saturday, June 4, 2005 Posted: 12:04 AM EDT (0404 GMT)

(CNN) -- A U.S. military investigation into the mishandling of the Muslim holy book at the Guantanamo Bay prison for suspected terrorists has determined that detainees -- not U.S. soldiers -- attempted to flush the Quran down the toilet there.

However, the report did find four confirmed incidents in which U.S. personnel at the base mishandled the Quran, including guards kicking a detainee's Quran; a guard's urine "splashed" a detainee and his holy book after coming through an air vent; and guards got in a water balloon fight that resulted in two detainees' Qurans getting wet.

In a fifth confirmed incident, it could not be determined whether a guard or a detainee wrote a two-word obscenity in a detainee's Quran.

The findings of the report, issued by Brig. Gen. Jay Hood, commander of the detention center in Cuba, were released late Friday. They found no evidence to support allegations that U.S. soldiers attempted to flush the Muslim holy book down the toilet.

The investigation was prompted after a Newsweek article citing unnamed sources made such a claim -- prompting violent protests in Afghanistan and other parts of the Muslim world that left more than a dozen people dead. (Full story)

Newsweek has since retracted the story.

The Hood report cited three separate incidents in which detainees tried to flush the Quran down the toilet.

In one incident, on February 23, 2004, the report said a guard saw a "detainee place two Qurans in his toilet and state he no longer cared about the Quran or his religion.

Five minutes later, after the detainee retrieved the Qurans, he ripped several pages out of one Quran and threw the pages on the floor. Then, he placed both Qurans on the sink."

Another time, on January 19, 2005, a detainee "tore up his Quran and tried to flush it down the toilet. Four guards witnessed the incident," the report said.

The report also cited 12 other incidents by detainees, including one who used his Quran as a pillow, another who urinated on his holy book and several who ripped pages from the Quran.

Capt. Jeff Weir, an Army spokesman at the facility, told CNN in a phone interview that the detainees were typically trying to stage some form of protest when they mishandled the Quran.

Hood said investigators reviewed more than 30,000 documents in an exhaustive probe.

"The inquiry found no credible evidence that a member of the Joint Task Force at Guantanamo Bay ever flushed a Quran down a toilet. This matter is considered closed," the report said.

It said the U.S. military has issued more than 1,600 copies of the Quran since January 2002, conducted more than 28,000 interrogations and carried out thousands of "cell moves."

"Mishandling a Quran at Guantanamo Bay is a rare occurrence," Hood said. "Mishandling of a Quran here is never condoned."

The investigators defined mishandling as "touching, holding or the treatment of a Quran in a manner inconsistent with policy or procedure."

Hood said the investigative team looked into 19 incidents involving allegations of mishandling of the holy book, only five of which could be confirmed.

Ten of the incidents did not involve mishandling of the Quran, the report concluded. Four incidents could not be verified.

According to the report, the five confirmed incidents were:

# In February 2002, a detainee complained that guards kicked the Quran belonging to a detainee in a nearby cell.

# On July 25, 2003, a contract interrogator apologized to a detainee for stepping on his Quran in an earlier interview. The interrogator was later fired "for a pattern of unacceptable behavior, an inability to follow direct guidance and poor leadership."

# On August 15, 2003, night shift guards threw water balloons in a cell block, wetting the Qurans of two detainees.

# On August 21, 2003, a detainee complained that a "two-word obscenity had been written in English on the inside cover of his English version Quran." The report noted that the detainee knew English and Arabic, and it could not be determined exactly who wrote the phrase. "It is possible that a guard committed this act; it is equally possible that the detainee wrote in his own Quran."

# On March 25, 2005, a detainee said "urine came through an air vent" and "splashed on him and his Quran while he laid near the air vent." A guard admitted he was at fault, saying he urinated near an air vent and the "wind blew his urine through the vent into the block." The detainee was given a new uniform and Quran. The guard was reprimanded and placed on gate guard duty away from detainees.

Weir, the Army spokesman at the facility, said about 540 suspected terrorists are housed at the maximum security prison. Noting that only five incidents of mishandling of the Quran could be confirmed, he said, "I will stand by the record here: It's outstanding."

He said even if a U.S. soldier was "contemplating misbehaving," it would be extremely difficult.

"Nothing goes unchecked in Guantanamo Bay," he said. "Everything is documented."

There are about 540 detainees at Guantanamo Bay. Some have been there more than three years without being charged with a crime. Most were captured on the battlefields of Afghanistan in 2001 and 2002 and were sent to Guantanamo Bay in hope of extracting useful intelligence about the al Qaeda terrorist network.

Both U.S. President George W. Bush and Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld have denounced an Amnesty International report that called the U.S. detention center at Guantanamo Bay "the gulag of our time."

The president told reporters at a press conference on Tuesday that the report by the human-rights group was "absurd."

On Wednesday, Rumsfeld called the characterization "reprehensible" and said the U.S. military had taken care to ensure that detainees were free to practice their religion.

However, he also acknowledged that some detainees had been mistreated, even "grievously" at times. (Full story)
 

llad12

Diabloii.Net Member
Much the same information with a different slant:

[font=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif] [font=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Pentagon confirms Quran desecration[/font][/font]
[font=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][font=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][/font]

The Pentagon confirmed for the first time on Friday that a US soldier deliberately kicked a Guantanamo Bay prisoner's Muslim holy book in violation of the military's rules for handling the Quran.

[/font]In other confirmed incidents, prison guards threw water balloons into a cell block to cause an unspecified number of Qurans to get wet; a guard's urine splashed on a detainee and his Quran; an interrogator stepped on a Quran during an interrogation; and a two-word obscenity was written in English on the inside cover of a Quran



Aljazeera


Interesting how people/media view and write about the same things differently 'eh?
 

Steel_Avatar

Diabloii.Net Member
llad12 said:
Much the same information with a different slant:

[/font]


Aljazeera


Interesting how people/media view and write about the same things differently 'eh?
No, what's interesting is how Al Jazeera makes no mention at all of the incidents where the prisoners mistreated the Quran (assuming of course that said incidents occurred).
 

AeroJonesy

Diabloii.Net Member
Steel_Avatar said:
No, what's interesting is how Al Jazeera makes no mention at all of the incidents where the prisoners mistreated the Quran (assuming of course that said incidents occurred).
I thought that was interesting too. I tend to think CNN gives a decently unbiased approach to news stories. They seem to include most of the facts on the story, so even the writing has a slant, with the facts you can still decide for yourself.
 

llad12

Diabloii.Net Member
AeroJonesy said:
I thought that was interesting too. I tend to think CNN gives a decently unbiased approach to news stories. They seem to include most of the facts on the story, so even the writing has a slant, with the facts you can still decide for yourself.
CNN unbiased? Why, I have heard Smeg call it the Communist News Network. ;)

-----------

Both articles are biased in one way or another. Just look at the difference in the headlines of both articles as the first clue.

CNN said:
Detainees, not soldiers, flushed Quran


AL J said:
[font=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Pentagon confirms Quran desecration
[/font]


In another example, compare how this information is initially reported:

In a fifth confirmed incident, it could not be determined whether a guard or a detainee wrote a two-word obscenity in a detainee's Quran.
Compared to this:

a two-word obscenity was written in English on the inside cover of a Quran.
Now, CNN, to their credit, goes on to later state that the obscenity is written in English, but this info is buried deep within the article.

----------

Steel, I agree that AL Jaz left out that information. They didn't lie ... they just didn't report it.

--------

Bias is inherent in all articles ... even what I am posting now. :eek: :eek: ;)
 

AeroJonesy

Diabloii.Net Member
Trust me Llad, I spent 2 years working on a school newspaper, I know there's bias in everything, but I think CNN does a pretty good job of including the facts, if you read the whole story and don't read just headlines and blurbs. CNN falls nicely inbetween Al-Jazeera and Fox News. I can get all the bias, politicizing, and spin I want here. I'd prefer a middle of the road news source.
 

Stevinator

Diabloii.Net Member
AeroJonesy said:
Trust me Llad, I spent 2 years working on a school newspaper, I know there's bias in everything, but I think CNN does a pretty good job of including the facts, if you read the whole story and don't read just headlines and blurbs. CNN falls nicely inbetween Al-Jazeera and Fox News. I can get all the bias, politicizing, and spin I want here. I'd prefer a middle of the road news source.
I agree CNN is left center while fox is right center, but I think the way you're portraying the relationship there is a bit unfair. I'd classify AJ as opposite of say Rush or hannity. fox is much more center than you make it out to be.
 

Steel_Avatar

Diabloii.Net Member
Ilad:

I'd be surprised if the detainees couldn't speak at least some English, which is why simply stating that the words were in English, isn't enough to convince me that it was the soldiers.
 

AeroJonesy

Diabloii.Net Member
Stevinator said:
I agree CNN is left center while fox is right center, but I think the way you're portraying the relationship there is a bit unfair. I'd classify AJ as opposite of say Rush or hannity. fox is much more center than you make it out to be.
Back when I watched a lot of new on TV, I watched about equal amounts of Fox and CNN. I actually preferred the Fox broadcasts, mostly because they entertained me more. But when it comes to reading news online, I like cnn.com. Their layout is better and easier for me to navigate, and I generally like their content more.

I would say in a global context, CNN is pretty middle of the road.
 

PublicEnemy

Diabloii.Net Member
How hypocritical,
the muslims are shocked when their Koran is not respected, BUT they are not shocked at all and even happy when Hinduists are killed by muslims in India,when Christians are killed by muslims in Africa,when Christians are killed by muslims in Timor,when Jews are killed by muslims in Israel.
The muslims are mainly hypocrites,they are only shocked when it suits them.
For these muslims, the koran is worth more than the lives of non-Muslims.
I had to say it.
They are hypocrites,just like their Koran.
 

llad12

Diabloii.Net Member
Steel_Avatar said:
Ilad:

I'd be surprised if the detainees couldn't speak at least some English, which is why simply stating that the words were in English, isn't enough to convince me that it was the soldiers.
I never commented as to who was the guilty party here Steel. My posts simply noted how such information is often presented to slant a reader toward a particular position.
 
Steve_Kow said:
That's an easy, but not very clever, way of avoiding his point.
That's okay, I'm still waiting for all those people outraged about Newsweek's report to condemn all the papers reporting this. Or for that matter the Pentagon.

Does it not bother anyone else that these sort of things weren't even investigated until Newsweek printed the story about the Koran flushing? If the Pentagon takes these things so seriously, why not be aware of them and do something about them to begin with rather than waiting for the news media to break an embellished and inaccurate story based on a leak to bother looking into what's going on down there?

Oh, yeah, and I'm sure the soldier was taking a leak and the wind "just happened to blow" and his urine found it's way magically into the air vents. Yup. Kinda like when I was on my apartment's 9th floor balcony as a kid and I just accidentally dropped that water balloon. Yeah. Uhuh.
 

Steve_Kow

Banned
Are you honestly outraged by this Drunkcajun? I don't see what the big deal is--even intentionally 'desecrating' the Koran falls a long way off from torture. If it was an effective interrogation technique--why not do it?

But that isn't what occurred is it? There have been extremely isolated minor incidents.
 

Steel_Avatar

Diabloii.Net Member
I honestly don't care. Just because a text is sacred to you, doesn't make it sacred to me. While it may be extremely offensive, it's hardly tortureous for me to mistreat a freaking book.
 
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