A Humble Suggestion

[Galtrovan]

Re: A Humble Suggestion

I appreciate the idea that people who dedicate themselves to the game and really hunt for items should have something better, but I don't appreciate when a game focuses too heavily on that aspect. When you get a game, it should be fun right out of the box- you shouldn't have to "earn" your fun. It should not only be possible to win with what you find on a single-pass playthrough of the game, but fun to do so. People tend to mix up the ideas of something being possible or viable with something being fun.

This is what Normal difficulty is for -- for the game to be fun out of the box and be completable with the equipment you find along the way. After Normal difficulty begins Nightmare, where you are replaying the game at higher difficulty. This mode is still doable with what you have found along the way, but at the same time becomes increasingly difficult and item dependent as you progress through completion of the game a second time. Hell difficulty, the third pass through the game, should require the upper echelon of gear and/or player skill in order to complete the game. Those that have both items and (player) skill, should find Hell mode moderately difficult. Those with either items or skill, but not both, should find Hell mode difficult to very difficult while playing through. Those with neither items nor skill should have their asses handed to them, find better items, and practice playing.

Bottom line, the game needs to cater to everyone.

 

[Nimbostratus]

Re: A Humble Suggestion

The problem is that Normal, Nightmare, and Hell aren't treated as difficulty settings in the traditional sense. Yes, they make the game easier or harder, but in usage, they're treated much more like different acts rather than different difficulties. Perhaps it's because it's the same character, or because you have to beat the previous one before going to the next. Either way, just think about it for a moment- when somebody asks if their character setup can beat the game, are they asking about Normal or Hell? Are there any guides for characters just going through Normal?

Also, I never said the game should provide nothing for item hunters. Sure, the top items can still be hard to find, I have no problem with that. The thing that bothers me is that a practical set of gear still requires quite a bit of hunting- you don't really find viable equipment on a regular playthrough.

 

[Galtrovan]

Re: A Humble Suggestion

The thing that bothers me is that a practical set of gear still requires quite a bit of hunting- you don't really find viable equipment on a regular playthrough.

You do find practical equipment on a regular play through, and with this gear you can beat Normal and most of Nightmare. However, completing Nightmare and playing through Hell should require a time investment and item hunting. Being able to complete Hell just by playing straight through - Normal, Nightmare, Hell - and using what you found would yield a game that is not even worth playing, in my book anyway.

 

[Nimbostratus]

Re: A Humble Suggestion

Tell me, why would the game suddenly become unplayable if you can play straight through without needing to re-run areas or bosses?

 

[Galtrovan]

Re: A Humble Suggestion

Tell me, why would the game suddenly become unplayable if you can play straight through without needing to re-run areas or bosses?

Buying the game, playing and beating Normal, Nightmare, and Hell, without ever needing to do any item hunting would be perfectly fine for my first character the first time through the game. After that though, the game would not be worth playing again. Why hunt for items when you don't need them. Why explore alternate builds when any build will do just fine. Why play again, you'll just win - easily.

Winning the game with what you found and the skills you chose should only happen in Normal difficulty, so anyone can pick up the game and have fun. Nightmare should increase the difficulty in order to make it apparent that equipment and skill choices matter, though still be mostly completable. Hell, as I said before, should kick your *** unless you put in the time to collect equipment and learn the nuances of the game.

Edit... Also, what about playing solo vs. playing in a party? All my comments have been in terms of playing solo. Playing in a party ones equipment does not need to be anywhere near as good as if playing alone. Playing a in competent party, one can indeed play through Hell with the gear they've found along the way.

 

[Nimbostratus]

Re: A Humble Suggestion

With that mindset, it's amazing any game gets played more than once. Think of all the games that don't have any gear at all- surely there are other ways to keep the player's interest.

Forcing people to grind for every character is simply a type of fake longevity. What D3 needs is less of that crutch and more real longevity- mix up the quests some more, make low levels fun, have more diverse skills, give exploration a real point, and so on. Let the player be more involved than "retreat when under x health" and "have gear to reach X breakpoint with Y damage."


And about partying: Yes, people working together can do fine even if they all have lame equipment. The problem is that everyone having equivalent gear isn't always the case- When you're a large degree weaker or stronger than the rest of the party, it ends up not feeling like you're part of the group. You either have "Everyone beats things before I can get close," or "Jesus these guys are all useless, I'm doing all the work."

 

[Galtrovan]

Re: A Humble Suggestion

With that mindset, it's amazing any game gets played more than once. Think of all the games that don't have any gear at all- surely there are other ways to keep the player's interest.

That's a long list -- of games I've never even played once.

Forcing people to grind for every character is simply a type of fake longevity.

People should not have to grind with every character. Once you have equipment for the first character you can either choose to grind for gear for the second or use the wealth of your first to get gear for your second.

What D3 needs is less of that crutch and more real longevity- mix up the quests some more, make low levels fun, have more diverse skills, give exploration a real point, and so on. Let the player be more involved than "retreat when under x health" and "have gear to reach X breakpoint with Y damage."

I agree with this. D2 LOD has way too much Act Boss/Baal grinding. Things need to be mixed up. I'd much rather explore open areas throughout the game for items and xp than run Act Bosses/Baal ad nauseam.

 

[Risingred]

Re: A Humble Suggestion

Forcing people to grind for every character is simply a type of fake longevity.

...fake longevity? Says who?

The only reason I am still playing today, right now (minimized as a matter of fact) is item hunting. That's all.

 

[Galtrovan]

Re: A Humble Suggestion

...fake longevity? Says who?

The only reason I am still playing today, right now (minimized as a matter of fact) is item hunting. That's all.

Me too. It's all about the items. I start-up every ladder reset, play until I find everything I want to find, and then quit letting everything expire. This way, if Blizzard doesn't reset before I'm ready to do it all over again, I've done my own reset. For this current ladder season I'm on my 3rd start-up. My goal for my current start-up is to see what I can acquire before Blizzard resets and releases patch 1.13. If Blizzard doesn't get their butts in gear I'll get bored and quit before the reset and patch actually happens -- something I never thought would happen as I didn't start until Blizzard announced the reset and patch COULD take place as early as the end of April (I think I should have saw that coming knowing how the release of 1.10 went down).

 

[Starving_Poet]

Re: A Humble Suggestion

There are (were) a lot of Diablo 2 clones that came out and all of them had so much potential, but the one's that failed had, at the heart of their problems, a poorly designed item mod system.

 

[AFS]

Re: A Humble Suggestion

I'm astonished by the number of players that rinse and repeat the game through monotonous and drone-like item grinding. This is where you genuinely get your excitement from playing? Either you folks are playing the wrong game, or I've got the wrong approach to Diablo.

False dichotomies FTW.

 

[Funkopotamus]

Re: A Humble Suggestion

Diablo 2 has a huge item potential. What better game to hunt for items?

 

[sreda]

Re: A Humble Suggestion

Hello all. I look forward the next installment of our favourite hack-n-slash RPG. Part of the excitement and reason we put in countless hours and lose some sleep is the loot, the hunt for the treasured items. However, part of what I felt was flawed in D2 was the fact that the characters require high level items to be playable and viable on hell difficulty. It didn't come down to the builds and the skills of the characters, but rather what they were equipped with.

Now I understand that some of you may feel that item finding and hunting is integral to the building of the character, but I feel that it should be something extra and not a handicap. The flip side argument would be that if the high level items did not help on the hardest difficulty, then they would not so useful and would not be worth trying to find and trade for. They would be reduced to a novelty. This is a valid argument against the untwinked, hell-viable character, but it overlooks one obvious point: those items should be a novelty.

Take for instance your standard WW-Barb using swords. Play the game using two basic colossus swords (if you're dual-wielding) and some basic elite armor (the names escape me) for all your gear. Even with cl20 synergies and skills, you would be hard-pressed to survive Andariel. This sounds fundamentally wrong to me. Replace the standard crap gear with an IK set and now you're death on two legs.

I don't know if Blizzard reads these forums (they should), but the one request I deeply hope that is considered is that this game design is revised and adjusted towards the focus of the character skills and build primarily. Uber items should be a secondary focus in the character build. That's all. The rest is gravy for me.

How do the rest of you feel about this? Thanks for your time.

Well you make a valid point, but Blizzard has already stated the most important part of this game is the loot. Which is not to say the game is going to revolve-or-die around it, but loot should be important enough to have everyone inclined on getting the best as soon as possible. Hell mode should require the best gear, I don't see it as a difficulty that could be approached from the start like in console games, great gear should be attained before being able to enter hell mode. Otherwise normal, and nightmare are useless. Everyone would aim for the best off the start. Plus, it gives us more to work for, which is what it's all about. You work, then you get your reward.

 

[Risingred]

Re: A Humble Suggestion

I'm astonished by the number of players that rinse and repeat the game through monotonous and drone-like item grinding. This is where you genuinely get your excitement from playing? Either you folks are playing the wrong game, or I've got the wrong approach to Diablo.

False dichotomies FTW.

Do you know what's monotonous to me? Playing a game for 10 years.
What is there that is so new and exciting to do in Diablo II that you think I should be doing instead of item hunting? It's what I like. There's nothing wrong with that.

 

[AFS]

Re: A Humble Suggestion

Do you know what's monotonous to me? Playing a game for 10 years.
What is there that is so new and exciting to do in Diablo II that you think I should be doing instead of item hunting? It's what I like. There's nothing wrong with that.

I understand.

I didn't play the game for years, and then decided to feel nostalgic after reading up on the latest DIII news. So I reinstalled and played Diablo 1 and then did the same with D2LOD. In all these times I honestly never tried almost half of the classes (druid, sorceress, assassin - can you believe it?), and the first thing I did was read up some guides on an untwinked druid build (volcano/dire wolf+grizzly). After that I thought for a bit and started this thread.

For me the excitement is in the HC mode and the team play. That's where I get my thrill of the game. I made a new account, mucked in SC with the sorceress to unlock HC, and then finally dug into HC with the druid.

 

[Risingred]

Re: A Humble Suggestion

In all these times I honestly never tried almost half of the classes (druid, sorceress, assassin - can you believe it?)

I most certainly can. I think my record for a barb is level 12. I just cannot play that class, and the assassin is even worse. To each their own...I am simply incapable of appreciating that gameplay. But funny enough I love my werebear and my pally.