A few Hammerdin Questions..

[Uhgii]

+3 skill its a lot more then just boost for 2-3k damage for hammer ...
look wider
+3 to HS = +3% to block , longer duration, +1.5-2.5K deffense rating
+3 to cleanings, meditation, redemption and others 1 skills point wonders is visible (because as you know +1 combat charms wont help you here)
+20 to regeneration is big deal too then you deal with poison
Oak Sage is cheap substitute of CTA
I simply cannt see how wizardspike can be even compared with HOTO

... okay.

My friend uses a wizzy and a GA, and I use a HotO and an enigma... we both do equally well. I don't kill much faster aside from bosses, but he honestly does just as well as I do. HotO is not a mandatory thing at all for a hammerdin... wizzy is just as good, if not better in several aspects.

There. That's why it can be compared, because it's a great weapon.

I guess what I don't understand is why you seemingly hate it so much. HotO isn't the be-all end-all weapon of diablo 2 for every caster. It's a little ignorant to feel that way.

 

[Tanatus]

I havent said that HOTO best for every caster ...
HOTO best for hammerdin and winder equally good with occy for meteororb but that's all
Necros have death web, blizzard sorcs have death fathom, fohers can use +3combat/3FOH scepters, fire or lighting clones of sorc better with perfect eschuta, trappers goes best with good rare claws like +3 traps/+3LS and so list goes.
I merely trying to point out that wizardspike nothing special its have it merits but plently prime hand items for every type of casters that far better then wizardspike

 

[Uhgii]

Yet you're still trying so hard to look down on the wizspike as a bad weapon, when its NOT! Thats my point.

You're acting as if its a cracked sash, which is still extremely ignorant. It's not a weapon to "settle for" before getting a better one, its not a "pisspoor" alternative to anything... its downright a good weapon. Whether you feel another is better or not, a wizspike is still a good weapon. Lets take a look at it now, shall we?

Wizardspike
Bone Knife
+2 Mana per Clvl
+15% Mana Regen
+15% to Maximum Mana
All Resistances +75%
Indestructible
50% Faster Cast Rate

Okay, so it gives a ton of mana, 50% FCR, 75% to all resistances, and to top that off, its indestructable, which to me, seems like the only useless mod on it.

Explain what is so bad about that. And don't give an answer such as "I'm not saying its bad, I'm saying theres better." Because anything you call a "pisspoor" alternative typically isn't good. And it CAN be compared to HotO... if you want to watch me compare it, just ask.

 

[Zardoz]

I have both the wizspike and HotO as I stated earlier. I still use the wizspike most of the time. The wizspike is Ist'ed so I get 30 mf there and because of the extra fcr on wizzy I can wear my 40 mf chancies. Switch BK for a nice rare ring with fcr, life, mf to get above 75% breakpoint for fcr. That gives me 83 more mf using the wizspike. The mana bonus on wizspike also allows me to spam hammers quite nicely. I still kill nicely with 10K hammers, one to two hit kils for the most part.

HotO is fun, level 40 hammers are fun esp with above 75% fcr. Fairly nice HotO with 39 resists, so with mara's ammy and anni charm and P/diamond HoZ resists are not really a factor. I still get one to two hit kills just like before though. I think HotO maybe a bit of overkill, but being a tank is fun at times.

My sorc and necro both used a wizspike at one time, but there are much better weapons for them out there. I like both for my hammerdin and I can afford both, so I got both. My main thing right now with this character is mf and he can do that anywhere.

 

[niomosy]

I havent said that HOTO best for every caster ...
HOTO best for hammerdin and winder equally good with occy for meteororb but that's all
Necros have death web, blizzard sorcs have death fathom, fohers can use +3combat/3FOH scepters, fire or lighting clones of sorc better with perfect eschuta, trappers goes best with good rare claws like +3 traps/+3LS and so list goes.
I merely trying to point out that wizardspike nothing special its have it merits but plently prime hand items for every type of casters that far better then wizardspike

I really only see HotO as being good for non-MF'ing hammerdins. If you're going to mf, HotO is the wrong choice. With HotO, you're losing resists that you get from Wiz and have to make up elsewhere. You're also losing 10% fcr which you'll need to make up as well. The +3 skills isn't mandatory nor even all that needed. With a Wiz, you can not only Ist it but wear something like Chance Guard instead of Magefists for more mf. It can make a difference.

While Wiz isn't great for everyone, if you're a hammerdin and you're planning to mf at all, this is your best choice, IMHO.

 

[UndeadBehlial]

So Uhgii would you say HoTO is better for PvP? Man i'm just about to make one, and i dont wanna steal this thread, but while we are discussing... i'm trying to get a hoto, wouls that be a mistake? It seems wizzy has resists/mana/FCR while hoto would be better for people like me who cannot afford 10x skillers...or even 1 skiller. I'm a hammerdin newb so i guess we'll see.

 

[Uhgii]

Honestly? I'm just trying to defend the wizspike because I think its an incredible weapon, and I hate to see people put it down, and say it's not comparable to a HotO, when in fact it is.

Personally, I actually use a HotO on my hammerdin, and he even MF's... I always just wanted one, and it really is a good weapon. If you can afford it, and you want to take your hammerdin to the next level, and if FCR isn't a problem (though I only have what the HotO provides), go for it.

I would say I'd rather have Enigma + Wizzy rather than HotO + Another armor, but then again, HotO is cheaper than enigma... but still. If you really want a HotO, go for it. I'm sure you won't be dissapointed. :thumbsup:

But remember, the wizspike is NOT a bad weapon! If you get a HotO, try it out in all aspects, and then try out a wizspike right after. Tell me if the effectiveness is really that noticeable... because I can't seem to see it. But the +3 skills does help out a lot for holy shield, and I like to have overkill damage... I am guilty of that. :lol:

EDIT: Oh... and as for PvP, I wouldn't really know, since I don't really PvP a lot, and when I do, I don't choose my hammerdin. But the added defense and damage in PvP could prove useful, however, in PvP you'd really want extra resistances in case you're going up against elements, and you'd REALLY want that extra mana and FCR... so honestly, for PvP, I'd pick wizzy, but a HotO with some extra FCR will do you fine. Especially if you can find extra resistances elsewhere.

 

[niomosy]

So Uhgii would you say HoTO is better for PvP? Man i'm just about to make one, and i dont wanna steal this thread, but while we are discussing... i'm trying to get a hoto, wouls that be a mistake? It seems wizzy has resists/mana/FCR while hoto would be better for people like me who cannot afford 10x skillers...or even 1 skiller. I'm a hammerdin newb so i guess we'll see.

It depends. Is the extra hammer damage (which can't be blocked and only has small resistances from items) going to matter? Will the +3 skills give you an important HS (or other skill) boost? Do you have 75% fcr from other items already? You need to understand what you're getting and determine if it will really make much difference in pvp to you. In the end it's your call. Just be sure you know what you're getting before spending the runes on it.

Personally, I wouldn't be likely to bother with it for pvp. If this Hammerdin was doing rushes and Dclone killing, I'd probably be all over a HotO. +3 skills would help get the job done faster and I'd be able to cover other things like resists with other gear since I wouldn't need to worry about MF.

 

[Tanatus]

Let me explain it from other end ...
Wizardspike +~292 mana at lvl 94 +75 resist and 50FCR
Now let look on hammerdin let say cookie-cutter gear MF hammerdin....
Mara/HOZ/HOTO/Engima/Shako/arachnids/wartravellers/wisp protector/bk or dwarf star/chances (or what every you need)... After 3 anya quest
20-30/69-72 (with um/pdiamond)/30-40/30 so we are talking about already 149-172 resist total. But let's say for crist sake 160.... So you need single 15 resist all GC to max your resistance in hell and have also lighting absorb (and fire absorb if you need too)
So as you need you simply dont need that massive resistance that wizarspike offer you. Ok one might say - hey you need stack more for PvP or/and convcition ... you may go for Kira's guardian with 15resa jewel and cover your resistance needs. In any form for hammerdin pick extra resistance w/o sacroficing much skills easy task.
I hope now everyone here agree that 75 resistance on wizardspike for hammerdin not big deal -you'll be maxed or near maxed anyway
Now 50FCR .... With typical set up you wont hit 125FCR mark anyway and combo HOTO + arachnids you have 60FCR and with wizardspike + arachnid you have 70 FCR - BOTH are correspond to 48FCR brake point. So loosing 10 FCR also irrelavant
Lastly mana almost 300 mana at lvl 94 its hell a lot but here is a question do you need that much mana? Anwer no - 350 mana is sufficient for MF and baal runs in 8 players game. How hard to get 350 mana? - well naturally with zero energy invested you'll have around 132 mana shako+mara+anni will net around 150-170 so you need pick up esle where ~50 mana which is easy because 5% mana increase on arachnids will net ~20 and 30 easy comes with various charms (2 sc 17mana/5fhr for example)...
Now let see what would cost you offseting 3 skills loss via HOTO - well at least +3 combat charms and +3 offensive aura charms that would cost you .... MORE then HOTO+ 1 15resa GC+2 17mana sc ... Not only this bear in mind 3 combat + 3offesnive (I'll skip 3 deffensive GC its kinda stupid but ok) take 18 slots in inventory while 1 15resa + 2 17 mana sc take only 5 slots in invetory allowing you more flexibility in charm selection
In other word if you intend to use wizardspike you must have in inventory track load combat charms and offensive auras

 

[Uhgii]

I'm really done debating over that a HotO is godly, and perhaps superior to Wizspike, because even I feel that it's superior... as I stated several times before, it's even my weapon of choice.

But you simply can't get me to admit that it's a bad weapon, because it's not. And I think it's funny that you said they're uncomparable, but you've made roughly 5 posts comparing them, and HotO, while superior, is only so much better.

And another point you missed is that the skills simply don't matter... so why are you adding up charms in your inventory? If I want the +3 skills, I'll use the HotO, if I don't want them, I won't waste my time with them... period.

Just leave it be, Wizspike is a great weapon... you can debate all day, and you simply won't change mine, or many others, opinion of the wizspike. As I stated before as well, my friend uses a wizspike and GA while I use a HotO and enigma, and he's just as effective as I am. I see why HotO is slightly superior, but a wizspike works wonders. If you seriously cannot believe me, try one on. You'll be suprised.

 

[Xiamet]

Justn lovin' my Wiz Spike and GA...does what I need, without the expensive runewords and even more expensive Pally charms...

I hold up easily in 8 player games with this gear, and all my quests get done...

to each his own...why argue about it?

-X

 

[Milamber]

I'm really done debating over that a HotO is godly, and perhaps superior to Wizspike, because even I feel that it's superior... as I stated several times before, it's even my weapon of choice.

But you simply can't get me to admit that it's a bad weapon, because it's not. And I think it's funny that you said they're uncomparable, but you've made roughly 5 posts comparing them, and HotO, while superior, is only so much better.

And another point you missed is that the skills simply don't matter... so why are you adding up charms in your inventory? If I want the +3 skills, I'll use the HotO, if I don't want them, I won't waste my time with them... period.

Just leave it be, Wizspike is a great weapon... you can debate all day, and you simply won't change mine, or many others, opinion of the wizspike. As I stated before as well, my friend uses a wizspike and GA while I use a HotO and enigma, and he's just as effective as I am. I see why HotO is slightly superior, but a wizspike works wonders. If you seriously cannot believe me, try one on. You'll be suprised.

I am with you on this one, the HotO v Wizardspike debate is a tireless one and really frivilous.

There is no right or wrong here, but personal preference on how you like to play.

Me, I like damage, so I go for the HotO cos' my damage increases more and I have no need for the Wizspike as I already have max resists and 75% FCR.

So come on guys - agree to disagree.

 

[Zvolen]

Justn lovin' my Wiz Spike and GA...does what I need, without the expensive runewords and even more expensive Pally charms...

I hold up easily in 8 player games with this gear, and all my quests get done...

to each his own...why argue about it?

-X

Same with me, HotO is jyst something to aim for, its not mandatory in my books. I do fine with out it.