A discussion about a ghost

[Bash_]

A discussion about a ghost

Hello. I always did enjoy two kinds of chars. The ones that were bred for specificity, i.e zealots vs zealots, and true versatility. A character that can stand up against oneone, anytime, and usually win.

I normally had one of each, though my fascination was usually only bound to one at a time. At the moment i enjoy versatility. At first i made alot of calculations on a javazon, but ended up concluding that nomatter how general versatile she might be, single element would never work, especially in pubs. Some tard is always using 95%res+absorb, and i want to fight anyone, anyday.

So my search led me to the Ghost, which i clearly see as THE most versatile character in the game. Very few weaknesses. Multiple sources of damage. Fun to play. HARD to play. stylish. She has it all.

But i would like to make a discussion about the build i had in mind for her, which is:

Skill:
20 CM
20 venom
20 MB

These are the essentials, they cannot be argued.

13 fade(lvl 42+%8dr) with all gear
18 clawblock(lvl 26(60%) with all gear
10 cloak of shadows

Thats the fillers


And finally the One Point wonders
Bladeshield
Bladefury
WoF
Shadow masters

Items

Claws: Primary +2, ias, 200ed+ fools 2 socket or the like(um um). Offhand: Chaos suwayyah, preferrably with +3 CM/MB

Armor: Enigma low str armor, probably a gothic plate. Secondary fortitude

Helm: +2/20fc/%ar pr lvl would be ideal. Socketed Jah.

Gloves: Magefists upped

boots: Eth. treks

belt: Spider

Rings: 1x 10 fc+mana+AR + 1 ravenfrost

Amu: .08 highlords, probably hard to find.

Charms: 31 x 3/xx/18-20's, 6 x 3/xx/5 fhr, torch and anni. Possibly a few 20/17's instead of 3/xx/18-20's.


Prebuffing:
Demonlimb for ENCHANT
CTA+spirit for BO
2x +3 shdw dcpln +3 venom claw (hard to come by), bramble, trang gloves, 2x soj, +3 shdw amu
10 shdw skillers to buff fade and venom

To sum it up:

65 fc
48 fhr
50%dr
75% OW
75-80% DS
lvl 56 venom along with +75% psn dmg (which is 150 due to a bug ive heard)(that is, with everything being perfect which it probably wont
max res
max ww speed, max trap laying speed(due to the wsm bug)
High ar (fools, sharp scs, %ar circlet, enchant, ar on rings. )
high dmg (a high venom coupled with high physical)

A little note. Since bramble is used for buffing, it has no real use over fortitude against opponents where you dont need to teleport(i.e vs barbs)

Yes yes, i realise that this build can only be realised by the extensive prebuffing. This is however not a thing that i mind, and i will probably have a standard setup available for easy opponents.

Thoughts?

 

[RedemptioN]

Trang gloves = fcr and poison dmg to help with venom.
Claws can't spawn with Claw Mastery as a staff mod.
10 Cloak of Shadows may be overkill.
Don't overlook fury.
Good luck finding a fools claw like that (it'll have to have 20 ias too to get 9frames using a chaos suwayyah and clawbugging - I don't think .08highlords has 20ias).
With Chaos suwayyah, you'll have to clawbug.
Make sure to put 1pt into LS.
Visionary circs are overrated imo- they only add about 1k AR to your whirlwind. You would benefit more from mods like life, resist, mana, etc.

Lastly, note that ghosts have a hard time versus good BvCs, BvBs, BvAs, Smiters, Hammerdins, V/Ts, T/Vs.
They are hardly the most versatile char: if you want a versatile char, make a Hammerdin wielding grief when needed.

 

[TienJe]

Hello. I always did enjoy two kinds of chars. The ones that were bred for specificity, i.e zealots vs zealots, and true versatility. A character that can stand up against oneone, anytime, and usually win.

I normally had one of each, though my fascination was usually only bound to one at a time. At the moment i enjoy versatility. At first i made alot of calculations on a javazon, but ended up concluding that nomatter how general versatile she might be, single element would never work, especially in pubs. Some tard is always using 95%res+absorb, and i want to fight anyone, anyday.

So my search led me to the Ghost, which i clearly see as THE most versatile character in the game. Very few weaknesses. Multiple sources of damage. Fun to play. HARD to play. stylish. She has it all.

But i would like to make a discussion about the build i had in mind for her, which is:

Skill:
20 CM
20 venom
20 MB

These are the essentials, they cannot be argued.

13 fade(lvl 42+%8dr) with all gear
18 clawblock(lvl 26(60%) with all gear
10 cloak of shadows

Thats the fillers


And finally the One Point wonders
Bladeshield
Bladefury
WoF
Shadow masters

Items

Claws: Primary +2, ias, 200ed+ fools 2 socket or the like(um um). Offhand: Chaos suwayyah, preferrably with +3 CM/MB

Armor: Enigma low str armor, probably a gothic plate. Secondary fortitude

Helm: +2/20fc/%ar pr lvl would be ideal. Socketed Jah.

Gloves: Magefists upped

boots: Eth. treks

belt: Spider

Rings: 1x 10 fc+mana+AR + 1 ravenfrost

Amu: .08 highlords, probably hard to find.

Charms: 31 x 3/xx/18-20's, 6 x 3/xx/5 fhr, torch and anni. Possibly a few 20/17's instead of 3/xx/18-20's.


Prebuffing:
Demonlimb for ENCHANT
CTA+spirit for BO
2x +3 shdw dcpln +3 venom claw (hard to come by), bramble, trang gloves, 2x soj, +3 shdw amu
10 shdw skillers to buff fade and venom

To sum it up:

65 fc
48 fhr
50%dr
75% OW
75-80% DS
lvl 56 venom along with +75% psn dmg (which is 150 due to a bug ive heard)(that is, with everything being perfect which it probably wont
max res
max ww speed, max trap laying speed(due to the wsm bug)
High ar (fools, sharp scs, %ar circlet, enchant, ar on rings. )
high dmg (a high venom coupled with high physical)

A little note. Since bramble is used for buffing, it has no real use over fortitude against opponents where you dont need to teleport(i.e vs barbs)

Yes yes, i realise that this build can only be realised by the extensive prebuffing. This is however not a thing that i mind, and i will probably have a standard setup available for easy opponents.

Thoughts?

there are a couple of things i want to comment on.

the first thing is the 10 in cloak of shadows. the -def% from cloak of shadows only takes away from %ed, so the overall effect is actually very minimal. i'd keep it as a one point wonder, and put the extra skills into dclaw/clawblock/etc.

the second thing is that you're using a chaos suwayyah and .08 highlords, so i assume you're wsm bugging. i just want to make sure, because otherwise your trap laying BP's don't work out.

%AR on your circlet isn't actually that beneficial to your build. you'll see maybe a 1.5k increase in AR if you use a purely physical setup with scs, and if you use 9 shadow gcs + fools, you won't need anymore AR (you'll already have 14k+ without enchant). i'd much rather you use that mod slot for some res or +stats or something of that sort.

you have the setup that gives both physical and venom damage right now, but one drawback with doing that besides focusing on just venom or physical is that your life may be a little bit low. physical builds usually have less life because they have less +bo and require more stats for their higher damage claws, but make up for it by using more scs rather than gcs. i usually recommend a build that gives you 4k+ life if you have decent gear, and if you find yourself over that with the gear you're using, then you're in the clear. just something to watch out for.

the other drawback with doing both venom + physical is that you are not really getting the full benefit of the physical damage setup. because using 9 shadow gcs results in very low AR, you need to use fools for most of your duels, which makes your highlords much less beneficial. to be honest, i would much rather see you wear a maras over your highlords (you'll be needing the res for hell anyway, from what i can tell right now). you'll still have physical damage, and of course, the open wounds, which will be your biggest source of damage outside of venom. even without highlords, you will have enough damage to kill someone if they are stacking poison res.

just a few nit picky things you should know, just since you're playing sin now:

the DS on your claws doesn't stack. they're applied independently to each claw. mastery CS gets applied independently from item DS, so the effective DS% isn't the same as just adding those numbers together.

same with OW

the PD% items are currently bugged (or maybe its by design), but it gets applied twice, like enchant sorcs and their fire mastery. it gets applied once when you cast the venom, and then applied once again when you hit. with just trangs 25% pd, you actually get 56% more damage (1.25 x 1.25). with a bramble buff, because the 50% pd is only on when you buff venom, it only gets applied once, so you get 119% more damage (1.75 x 1.25).


have fun with it. its definitely worth the effort to learn to play. :azn:

 

[RedemptioN]

Omfg repeat what I say more plz, Dave.
WoF#1

 

[TienJe]

Omfg repeat what I say more plz, Dave.
WoF#1

<--- STUN SWIRLY

 

[RedemptioN]

Yea And One Wof Set Watchout Or You'll Get Stunlock't

wefwef cant type in caps :C

 

[Bash_]

Redemptionill just take them by numbers)

1) You are right, i completely forgot that trangs had 20%fc, No need to use magefists

2) Ok thanks, i guess mindblast is the best then, since i will be buffing better venom claws on switch

3) True, but vs opponents without any real +%defence, i.e other sins, doesnt the number get reduced "as is"? Im aware that if you use CoS on a paladin with exile, or a conc barb, the -defence will be rediculously miniscule. But what about Your own defence? Doesnt it add directly?

4) Im not overlooking it, i just think that a good rare claw will end up doing the most damage, especially if its 40ias and 2 sockets.

5) Thanks, and yes it would need ias, and .08 hl has r/w instead

6) ofcourse

7) may i ask why? Long range stunning?

8) Perhaps, but seeing as how i am offensive by nature, 1.5k ar might be of more value than say, 15 str. I am not sure though.

and lastly, i suppose you are right, but in that case they come close second..


Tienje: Thanks for the extensive reply. I enjoyed your guide.

Firstly, im not sure i understand CoS properly, could you give an example? And i will be WSM bugging.

And i dont think you understand how much im going to prebuff; I am going to put on all my +skill and +%PD gear, cast venom, fade, SM, BO, BS etc, THEN switch back to my damage setup + sharp scs of vita. The result is that my venom and fade will keep its high lvl after i switch back, and i will get the benefits of all the scs's - the only weakness would be that my shadow, cos, bs and other things that need recasted in a duel, would be weakened. MB too. Granted, reequipping 40 scs is a hazzle, but one i dont mind using vs good opponents.

i knew about OW/DS, just didnt know how to apply it. How much are my actual percentages then?

And lastly, i would not use maras over HL. It would be better to sacrifice some damage and ar and get some res all scs's. Lightning is the most important element, which HL has more of than maras.

 

[mephiztophelez]

first thing to note: a Ghost is a hard character to win with consistently. if your going to the effort of building one, be prepared to get beaten a lot in the early days. once you get the hang of it, you'll start to have fun.

i'd suggest a point into Death Sentry as well. 2x WoF + 3x Lit Sentry gives the best stunlocking. the point into Death Sentry is handy for levelling.

if your going for a Phys Damage build, i'd suggest looking at a fort armour.

Firstly, im not sure i understand CoS properly, could you give an example?

note: all numbers are approximate/pulled from mah butt for explaination purposes:

say your opponent (smiter for example) has +1000% e-def and you hit them for -120% def with your CoS, they now have +880% e-def. this makes a minimal difference in their total defence.

if you really want to shred your opponents defence, then the 'Zon skill Inner Sight is the way to do it. IS works off your opponents base defence, not their e-def.

 

[HappyAssassin]

Prebuffing the crap out of your ghost will produce a real monster, but it's really time consuming. Even if you're willing to go throught the long buffing process, your opponent might not be. Personally I wouldn't duel a guy who spent 2 minutes between each duel buffing as much as possible, it creates a ton of dead space that's just not conducive to enjoying the game. A ghost is a very strong character (venom or physical, they both have their good points) even without prebuffing a 6k WW, I think that once you go out and duel with your ghost you will gradually want less and less of a prebuff and use your stash for resists stack and melee setup items.

 

[TienJe]

Tienje: Thanks for the extensive reply. I enjoyed your guide.

Firstly, im not sure i understand CoS properly, could you give an example? And i will be WSM bugging.

And i dont think you understand how much im going to prebuff; I am going to put on all my +skill and +%PD gear, cast venom, fade, SM, BO, BS etc, THEN switch back to my damage setup + sharp scs of vita. The result is that my venom and fade will keep its high lvl after i switch back, and i will get the benefits of all the scs's - the only weakness would be that my shadow, cos, bs and other things that need recasted in a duel, would be weakened. MB too. Granted, reequipping 40 scs is a hazzle, but one i dont mind using vs good opponents.

i knew about OW/DS, just didnt know how to apply it. How much are my actual percentages then?

And lastly, i would not use maras over HL. It would be better to sacrifice some damage and ar and get some res all scs's. Lightning is the most important element, which HL has more of than maras.

i didn't know you were going to replace all the scs back into the inventory before dueling. if you're doing that, then the highlords is a decent choice. on that note, with all those fine/vita scs, you won't need a rare fools for AR. using a fury will benefit you much more. you'll want the fools vs paladins though.

i still agree with ollie though, venom doesn't last very long, and if you're going to prebuff 30+ inventory slots worth, you'll probably be able to get only 1-2 duels in before you have to hit the stash again.

your effective DS with highlords will be 76% on fury, and 51% on chaos/fools. OW will be just what it says on the claw.

 

[mephiztophelez]

Prebuffing the crap out of your ghost will produce a real monster, but it's really time consuming. Even if you're willing to go throught the long buffing process, your opponent might not be. Personally I wouldn't duel a guy who spent 2 minutes between each duel buffing as much as possible, it creates a ton of dead space that's just not conducive to enjoying the game. A ghost is a very strong character (venom or physical, they both have their good points) even without prebuffing a 6k WW, I think that once you go out and duel with your ghost you will gradually want less and less of a prebuff and use your stash for resists stack and melee setup items.

/vouch this advice.

 

[Bash_]

Thanks. A lvl 56 venom lasts around 6 minutes, so that should be doable(ofcourse, asuming that i CAN get a hold of those items).

I know that its time consuming, but that is why im suggesting that i get a standard setup for general duels, and a monster setup for those special ocasions. And if they arent patient enough to wait for me, tough luck.

Yes i guess my AR is fine without fools, but doesnt the ar from fools get somewhat carried to my chaos? Either way, i would probably consider one. It has some nice mods, but it lacks damage. I guess i can get an eth. one to counter that, since fury is a cheap runeword these days.

To whoever said it, i will have fort vs barbs and the like.

And finally, Thanks happy assassin, perhaps you are right. Melee shouldnt be a problem as, when i put on my fort armor, am very melee oriented already. But what kind of items for stacking res? 5 res all/11res single 20 hp sc's, a t-gods, nokozan, ravens etc? I think i can manage these, even with my pressing socket space.

 

[Nazdakka]

Just curious: why make Engima in a Gothic Plate? Like the way it makes the Assassin look? Wanting to slow yourself down for easier tri-whirls? In-joke? Rolled a dice?

 

[RedemptioN]

Just curious: why make Engima in a Gothic Plate? Like the way it makes the Assassin look? Wanting to slow yourself down for easier tri-whirls? In-joke? Rolled a dice?

Looks primarily.

...Although I like Mageplate best.

 

[Bash_]

Yea looks, but i guess a mageplate isnt bad either.