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a couple more BvC stat questions

Discussion in 'Barbarian' started by Mr Pato, Nov 10, 2006.

  1. Mr Pato

    Mr Pato IncGamers Member

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    a couple more BvC stat questions

    ok, so if i understand correctly the set-up that requires most base strength is wearing fort and coa vs. smiters
    but then i read that any smiter can be killed with nigma or fort, and fort is only used to speed up the smiter killing, and that some smiters even require the frw of nigma
    so is there any time that fort and coa is NECESSARY?
    have i heard wrong; are there smiters that can be killed with fort but not nigma?
    (even using doom as 2nd weapon with nigma)

    also, on widowmaker (and dext)
    a lot of people call it a "crutch"
    but others say that a good hammerdin cannot be beaten without it
    which is it?
     
  2. Ce Olba

    Ce Olba Banned

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    Well. There are some smiters that you do better against with Fortitude. And why do it the long way when you can do it the short way? As for Fortitude + CoA. Fortitude is there for the damage, CoA for the damage reduction.

    As for Widowmaker, the people who call it a "crutch" are those who think with no brains. Yes, Blobs did kill people without Widowmaker. However, he wasn't doing as good against them as Luis or mcm is nowadays.

    I'm sure you are thinkin of ways to save up vitality points. Well, I tell you this: Vitality is overrated in many ways. Yes, it is clearly the best stat in the game and so on, but you should never go and sacrifice next-to-necessary/necessary stuff for vitality. Because the additions will always be small. Instead, try getting better gear and higher levels.

    And yes, you will never defeat a defensively teleporting hammerdin without widowmaker, unless he is stupid.
     
  3. Mr Pato

    Mr Pato IncGamers Member

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    Thanks for the post.

    I understand what you mean about gear versatility > little more life. It's just that I'm a bit of a perfectionist and I'd prefer to get a little more life than to sacrifice it for unnecessary gear and I've heard a lot of different things about the necessity of these in particular.

    I'll definitely take your word on the widow, so that's all cleared up for me now.

    But for the fort...
    What exactly do you mean by: "There are some smiters that you do better against with Fortitude"? Does this mean that there are smiter builds that you will beat more consistently with fort than with nigma? If so, which smiters? Or are you just reinforcing the fact that it speeds up some duels that you will win with either armor?

    Again, thanks for the post.



     
  4. Ce Olba

    Ce Olba Banned

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    You know, I am also a perfectionist, and for that I've remade my BvC twice. With the following ways:
    1st: enough str for torch + anni + draculs -> ebotd (I think he has 59 STR atm), enough dex for widowmaker + angelics + arreat's + torch + anni (49).
    2nd: Pure vitality. Sucked quite much.
    3rd and current: enough str and dex for the setups in question. Has so far done the best. Note that I've played each of these characters with the same gear, the same lvl (all 91).

    Well, some people say that Fortitude is better versus V/Ts (smite/foh). I've never used this setup due to low +LR%.

    As for normal smiters, you can beat most if not all of them with Enigma, but it will just be a lot quicker with Fortitude



     
  5. mainaman

    mainaman IncGamers Member

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    Vs v/t fortitude gives extra edge dmg wise and the lr boost is good. as soon as they realize they dont hurt you much with foh they come to the offensive and you can kill them really easy. their smite isnt as strong as pure smiter, and so the extra dmg you obtain by using fortitude is worth the lack of 8% dr and teleport.You can use widowmaker for the def ones too.
    Widowmaker is needed against any good hammerdin , and the really def ones that camp and expect you to go in their hammer field and try kill them. If you also put on fortitude your widowmaker dmg roughly doubles, your grief dmg goes up alot, and this is very nice asset as you want to kill hammerdins as fast as possible , remember they do unblockable unsorbable dmg .
     
  6. Mr Pato

    Mr Pato IncGamers Member

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    Cool, thanks guys.

    I always thought that nigma would be necessary vs v/t or they would keep teleing away and FoHing. What if they do this instead of coming after you when they find their FoH damage is low? Does the widow damage outweigh FoH and force them to come?

    So what gear do each of you use vs v/t? Mainaman, fort and Tgod? That would put you at 63 strength right? Which is what Olba is always saying also. (Tell me if this has changed.) Unless you change something else too, like to arreat or something.

    Thanks again.
     
  7. Mr Pato

    Mr Pato IncGamers Member

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    Answer please?



     
  8. lendial

    lendial IncGamers Member

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    an idea: if you are so concerned about vita then try using massive stat+gear like arreats/marrowwalk/raven/angelic/maybe even sc to use gear setups like foritude+widow, etc. then at the end you can decide for yourself if losing that amount of stat(life) is worth that extra gear possibility.

    a good foh would be charging vigoring not teleing. v/ts have generaly much weaker foh than a pure so its rare for them to rely on it unless you have negative resists. Its just used to make you come to them, much like the widow for the bvc.

    Someone did these calcs but you will lose x life if you wish to use widow which is undeniably useful but limited to just hammers. also possibly smiters but coa+enigma does just fine.

    a question: has anyone been able to use fortitude+coa+widow at the same time without using "too" much stats ?
     
  9. Mr Pato

    Mr Pato IncGamers Member

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    Thanks for the suggestion. I should try that out.

    So if a v/t is using FoH and a BvC is using widow, which one will do more damage over the same amount of time? Because I'm guessing the one that does less damage will be the one that has to be aggressive. Do you use fort, widow and coa against v/ts? If so, what belt do you wear?



     
  10. Ce Olba

    Ce Olba Banned

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    You should use CoA, Fortitude and Widowmaker if it just is possible.

    As for belt, either Hsarus or TGod's.

    If you wear TGod's, the damages per hit are almost equal. However, due to the OW at times, your damage should be a little better. However, I would always use Enigma just in case it comes down to the last bits of HP and the V/T's timing is perfect (aka he shoots at exactly between each of your arrows), you will be the one to die.



     

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