7 year old dies protecting his sister from a rapist.

[lAmebAdger]

@jmervyn

Ok, first, tell us why America has a superior culture to Europe's. I doubt that you can classify the two in a "this better than that" way. I think, if you even try to attempt that on either side, you are not only arrogant, but disrespectful to the other side.

Secondly, former prime minister Chamberlain was obviously morally superior. Too bad moral superiority counts for NAUGHT in the face of moral ruthlessness (fascists).

 

[krischan]

"...you should really try to avoid typing _ what just comes to..."

Whoops, scratch the word "less" then :whistling:

 

[jmervyn]

@jmervyn

Ok, first, tell us why America has a superior culture to Europe's. I doubt that you can classify the two in a "this better than that" way. I think, if you even try to attempt that on either side, you are not only arrogant, but disrespectful to the other side.

Secondly, former prime minister Chamberlain was obviously morally superior. Too bad moral superiority counts for NAUGHT in the face of moral ruthlessness (fascists).

Actually, the answers are one in the same. All the mindless prattle and peace-chirping in the universe won't stop real evil, and while Churchill's jaw-jaw is definitely relevant, left-leaners confuse diplomatic negotiations with actually doing 'things'. By extension, American culture in the broad sense is massively superior to European culture because it values the individual rather than the state or social order. One can look to the disenfranchisement of Islamist youth in France as an easy example of this contrast, where Mexicans are incorporated routinely. While the fact that American culture is rooted in European culture should be obvious to you, what you probably don't consider is how European sensibilities have fed off of Americana.

I'm not talking Levis and cheeseburgers, mind you, but rather the post-colonial concepts of freedom, independence, the American Bill of Rights, et al. One can argue until one's blue in the face that these things would have come about of their own accord, but factually the Pax Americana was the progenitor in the same way that the British Empire was the progenitor of capitalism.

And BTW I think all this relevant to the thread's original topic, regarding how the child's bravery is considered by the populace. In Russia, the perception might be nearly primitive, with a mob mentality. In Europe (considering responses to this thread) it's obviously something to dither over in terms of the legitimacy of the act. In America, however, it would previously be pretty much regarded as par for the course, if not including the belief that the child should have had access to firearms.

But don't worry, the American Progressive Left Hopes to ensure this will Change. Doubtless the child would be sued if this had happened now in the U.S.

EDIT - I could do a riff about Chamberlain's moral superiority versus what, as the very concept of defeatist appeasement is one which engenders aggression and eases conquest. But I figure one tangent is enough.

 

[WildBerry]

I see I haven't missed anything in the three weeks I've been away.

In all seriousness, you euros should stfu. Your example as superpowers was one of the worst, and its only out of our pure benevolence that we have let you freeload your way into modern life. We've already proven that we are morally, culturally, and technologically superior to you in every imaginable way, and we don't need your advice. You should thank your lucky stars that we are more civilized and generous than your civilization was/is, and need to quitcher*****in.

I'm sorry, I will immediately cease typing anything into the web and start serving you soft drinks well chilled. Is there anything else you want, Massa?

I wasn't only referring to the US liberating europe twice in two generations. I figure french support of the American revolution paid for WWI and you can have WWII as a freebie. And in any event we should be thanking the russians at Stalingrad and Leningrad anyhow.

This has enabled your silly forays into socialism and naivete pacifism without getting rickrolled by a soviet tank blob that doesn't play by your rules. Not only did you not learn from 1938, this time there won't be a churchill to save you because you simply don't have the means to survive without us, even if you had the will.

Kind of how you helped my country when the Russians went over the border twice? Yeah, thanks a lot for that.

If there's something I love more than the umbrella hate for my continent, it must be the underlying assumption that not only we are (and always have been) culturally a homogenic lump but a single political entity as well.

And oh, your hero Churchill was happy to have sold us Finns too, so excuse me not loving him either. But we don't matter, we never have, so you can lump the Euros together just fine again. Don't let me stand in the way.

By the way, I gladly admit to being in the backwater of Europe or Western world or whatever, even if half the world is speaking to mobiles made by us. No issues there. It's just the "yeeaeeaargh you don't have any right to speak because I'm quicker and smarter and betterer than you" that gets me. "I've once had a better answer than you for something, so I will continue to have them from this day to infinity, making your opinion worthless and expired". What kind of retarded logic is that?

I disagree; in fact, it is pretty obvious to most that the reason the first two are lacking is the rare application of the death penalty. Both sides quibble near-meaningless statistics all the time, but the fact is that when DP is common and rapid there is far greater risk consideration by criminals.

I like how the multiple translations of that particular abbreviation give whole new meanings to this post.

 

[WildBerry]

Double post monster.

 

[Agre]

I'm not reading 15 pages worth or posts, but I wonder how this turned into a euro vs us debate.

Anyway:

this monster ain't human.

He's as human as they come son. No other being in existance would ever act toward another of it's species as this man did. We're a sick, disgusting bunch.

 

[DailySupernova]

I'm not reading 15 pages worth or posts, but I wonder how this turned into a euro vs us debate.

Anyway:

He's as human as they come son. No other being in existance would ever act toward another of it's species as this man did. We're a sick, disgusting bunch.

Pretty harsh.

 

[lAmebAdger]

Actually, the answers are one in the same. All the mindless prattle and peace-chirping in the universe won't stop real evil,

and i know why! because SOME people don't believe, so the minority that DOES gets overrun... but i still have faith... a little faith in humanity is a key ingredient to some of the great personalities in our history, (i won't list them, because you doubtlessly will call them names again...)

and while Churchill's jaw-jaw is definitely relevant, left-leaners confuse diplomatic negotiations with actually doing 'things'.

unfortunately i actually have the same feeling very often... talking about "talking" when one should be "doing", in order to get to people like kim jong il

By extension, American culture in the broad sense is massively superior to European culture because it values the individual rather than the state or social order. One can look to the disenfranchisement of Islamist youth in France as an easy example of this contrast, where Mexicans are incorporated routinely. While the fact that American culture is rooted in European culture should be obvious to you, what you probably don't consider is how European sensibilities have fed off of Americana.

I'm not talking Levis and cheeseburgers, mind you, but rather the post-colonial concepts of freedom, independence, the American Bill of Rights, et al. One can argue until one's blue in the face that these things would have come about of their own accord, but factually the Pax Americana was the progenitor in the same way that the British Empire was the progenitor of capitalism.

the progenitor was obviously the mere idea of these concepts, most prominently developed during the FRENCH revolution (yes, the french one, not the european one, although it kinda spread to the whole continent)
///like WildBerry said to Garbad, you should lump all of the european countries together LESS often, ESPECIALLY when it comes to culture
(on a side note: i was talking about cheeseburger and levi's up there, so that's a question of definition and we'd better not debate that)
also, today i don't see how for example germany's culture doesn't have all your precious concepts that you define as culture, individualism? there's plenty o' that! they just sacrifice some to make sure that they can all keep a certain life style, not have such a divergence like you have in the US (i mean, look at all those villas and ghettos) mind you: they are still individual enough as far as i'm concerned

In Europe (considering responses to this thread) it's obviously something to dither over in terms of the legitimacy of the act. In America, however, it would previously be pretty much regarded as par for the course, if not including the belief that the child should have had access to firearms.

obviously something to dither over? as far as i'm concerned, most Europeans wouldn't even question the legitimacy of the act

But don't worry, the American Progressive Left Hopes to ensure this will Change. Doubtless the child would be sued if this had happened now in the U.S.

that's the US for ya. In europe there is NO way anyone could ever sue a child. (and there are rightists and leftists too in Europe, don't overlook that)

EDIT - I could do a riff about Chamberlain's moral superiority versus what, as the very concept of defeatist appeasement is one which engenders aggression and eases conquest.

and that is why i said this:

Too bad moral superiority counts for NAUGHT in the face of moral ruthlessness (fascists).

happy?

 

[jmervyn]

I like how the multiple translations of that particular abbreviation give whole new meanings to this post.

Double post monster.

You filthy, filthy boy.

but i still have faith...

Interestingly, faith is exactly why I despise Communism/Socialism. The spectrum of that belief hinges upon a system magically functioning despite all past evidence to the contrary, as well as a number of other 'leaps' which have no business being assumed by the same lot who dump upon the existence of the supernatural or a Diety. Inconsistent logic doesn't earn points in my book.

unfortunately i actually have the same feeling very often... talking about "talking" when one should be "doing", in order to get to people like kim jong il

You're probably new enough to have missed the bitter thread about Mugabe.

the progenitor was obviously the mere idea of these concepts, most prominently developed during the FRENCH revolution (yes, the french one, not the european one, although it kinda spread to the whole continent)

Ah, but the French revolution birthed all kinds of horrors, where the American one did not. Perhaps a comparison of anarchy to libertarianism would be in order, but I don't feel like making it.

///like WildBerry said to Garbad, you should lump all of the european countries together LESS often, ESPECIALLY when it comes to culture

Yah, yah, I refuse to speak in terms other than generalities. My frames of reference are Spain, England, and Germany; I can't claim 100% accuracy with Andorrans because I just passed through. Translation: give me a break - or would you prefer I argue the issue from a Desert Southwestern point of view?

they are still individual enough as far as i'm concerned

Ah, but that's the nub. One's concern and perception is limited by one's surroundings - a resident of the DDR doubtless thought that Deutschland was the Promised Land (until learning otherwise, as that sitcom I forget the name of probably alluded to). Yet the sheer volume of bureaucracy and legalistic manipulation under the surface was more than sufficient to disabuse me of any illusions (a German in the GW OTF reminded me with some hostility, "don't mention the War"). America is the closest nation I'm aware of that has brought true Libertarian utopia to the largest number of individuals.

obviously something to dither over? as far as i'm concerned, most Europeans wouldn't even question the legitimacy of the act

Didn't seem that way. I'd like to be wrong.

that's the US for ya. In europe there is NO way anyone could ever sue a child. (and there are rightists and leftists too in Europe, don't overlook that)

All it would take is a change of EU policy - I became familiar with just how un-legal that can be when I was watching an Intellectual Property issue (software patents). I doubt I need to mention Geert Wilders yet again, to identify what reception "rightists" get. And while there might be something vaguely resembling Libertarians (which I consider true "right"), they probably are drowned out by the arseholes from the National Front or other anarchist dweebs.

 

[stillman]

I think the problem is this wierd thing going on in America with all the chanting of "We're number one" and "Go USA" and all the "American Dream" and "Stars and stripes" and "Sea to shining sea"...it all sounds so nice and glorious. It seeps into the minds of American children and they grow up getting brainwashed into thinking America is actually number 1.

America's education system is crumbling into dust, poor people don't feel so free, and much of the world views Americans as piggish bullies. These are the realities. America isn't really number one anymore. But maybe with enough flag waving and enough stars and stripes on news shows and speeches about freedom and so on, the illusion can live on.

Many countries have "freedoms" and "liberties" and such, but we don't wrap ourselves up in it and obsess over it. We don't make wonderful fluffy poems and songs about this stuff to boost our self image. There comes a time when you've got to say, yes we have freedoms and all this wonderful stuff, but we have big problems too...

 

[jmervyn]

It seeps into the minds of American children and they grow up getting brainwashed into thinking America is actually number 1.

I took your post quite seriously - but America is still "numbah 1" regardless of your envy. You're simply pointing out the ugly truth that we're becoming much, much worse in very rapid fashion. And sadly, for much of the populace, the belief endures that the solution to these problems is to mawkishly imitate those who exist in our shadow,, like you. America didn't remain as the benevolent superpower exclusively due to negotiation & dialogue, nor through sitting on its hands and saying, "take off, eh?".

Easy-to-make Canadian jokes aside, Canada has shared the luxury America has had of isolationism, while contributing nowhere near the same levels of shed blood and charitable gold. I know it burns to be the understudy, but though we fail, you can't and won't rise to the challenge. The simple numbers of GDP and population are enough to realize that.

 

[lAmebAdger]

@jmervyn:

Inconsistent logic doesn't earn points in my book

on the romanticists vs. realists debate you would most certainly be the realist then...

You're probably new enough to have missed the bitter thread about Mugabe.

recommend looking it up?, i think i'd get my blood boiling and then not be able to post a response due to thread age...

Ah, but the French revolution birthed all kinds of horrors, where the American one did not. Perhaps a comparison of anarchy to libertarianism would be in order, but I don't feel like making it.

yes, yes, and I'm not saying America wasn't some kind of fairyland at the time... and the birth of all these wonderful concepts definitely didn't have social turmoil and bloodshed as its price too in America as it did in France... but you must see that doing this revolution of thought in France had to have this price, since it was a transition between a fricken absolutistically ruled land with according mentality to a violent outburst of new energies!... it's all fine you getting happy on past accomplishments and such and feeling all superior and arrogantly gleeful because of it, but the present is now! and the future lies in the future! we only have two eyes, and they are occupied with these two tenses, such that there is little sense in dusting out the past all the time

Yah, yah, I refuse to speak in terms other than generalities. My frames of reference are Spain, England, and Germany; I can't claim 100% accuracy with Andorrans because I just passed through. Translation: give me a break - or would you prefer I argue the issue from a Desert Southwestern point of view?

ok, have it your way then, just remember that you may be getting in a bit of unfairness to certain people who your comments don't apply to

a German in the GW OTF reminded me with some hostility, "don't mention the War"

o, but there are plenty of germans who would discuss with you till the end what to do about the war memories if you ever felt the need (around me, that is... so you're right on the surroundings issue). i even know some older germans (who were school children during the cold war) who you have to stop in their talking if you don't want to hear anymore about what horrors their nation did and how sorry they feel about it...

again, my view is probably too narrow for you, but yours is also too narrow for me, so that kinda balances it out

Didn't seem that way. I'd like to be wrong.

and i'd like to be right

All it would take is a change of EU policy - I became familiar with just how un-legal that can be when I was watching an Intellectual Property issue (software patents). I doubt I need to mention Geert Wilders yet again, to identify what reception "rightists" get. And while there might be something vaguely resembling Libertarians (which I consider true "right"), they probably are drowned out by the arseholes from the National Front or other anarchist dweebs.

o and i'm sure a "change" in EU policy would be most "easy" and "quick" to pull out... i'm sure you've heard about how the lame-arsery of policy change in these kinds of issues are something for very patient people... and i'm sure american policy is much more dynamic than that...

(IMO that would even be a plus point for America and a minus point for the EU)

 

[jmervyn]

on the romanticists vs. realists debate you would most certainly be the realist then...

Romantic heart, realist brain.

we only have two eyes, and they are occupied with these two tenses, such that there is little sense in dusting out the past all the time

Those who forget history... voted for Obama.

ok, have it your way then, just remember that you may be getting in a bit of unfairness to certain people who your comments don't apply to

Of course. I routinely condemn Islamists, but people fail to understand that I don't include most of my childhood friends in that category. In similar fashion, my Mom's politics are akin to Cindy Sheehan's and is proud to be friends with Col. Ann Wright; she just has more mental capability and wisdom backing it up than these two.

i even know some older germans (who were school children during the cold war) who you have to stop in their talking if you don't want to hear anymore about what horrors their nation did and how sorry they feel about it...

Perhaps; I worked with a couple of Hitler Youth and they weren't exactly forthcoming about it (though the one guy was soldier-proud of having shot down a British plane).

and i'm sure american policy is much more dynamic than that...

Not really, but it's also <usually> harder to sneak through in the dead of night.

 

[lAmebAdger]

Those who forget history... voted for Obama.

from the point of view of my social group, the youth, there is nothing really worth remembering about historical grudges or historically proven superiority. it's all too far away and it won't help us here and now...

Perhaps; I worked with a couple of Hitler Youth and they weren't exactly forthcoming about it (though the one guy was soldier-proud of having shot down a British plane).

there will always be those who received the wrong kind of growing-up experience. they will vanish once the newer generations take root. the good thing about humanity is that the chance of partly starting over again will always be renewed. spoiling the parents is going to have some effect on their children, but with enough change of generation these effects will lessen and newer effects, picked up by the changing sorts of life that will be led, will manifest themselves

Not really, but it's also <usually> harder to sneak through in the dead of night.

in europe there's less need to do so, if you compare the social divergences with those of the US...

 

[Garbad_the_Weak]

Your history is faulty, the Roman Republic gained very little of its territory via conquest. They took Africa Province and Hispania after beating back Hannibal - they weren't the aggressor in that war, they just took over Carthage to stop it attacking them again, and Spain because the Carthaginians had abandoned it. Then they had to take the French province to secure trade routes to Spain from Gaulish raiders. They were given Egypt by treaty (dirty dealings aside) and several Anatolian provinces by invitation (and aggression from Mithridates). Plus some land they took from defeated pirates.

The Senate hated taking new territory, they considered it an unholy expense. They even tried twice to get the Macedonians to take their territory back by setting up governments for them, that's how much they wanted to be rid of them. It wasn't until Caesar took Gaul that Rome properly conquered new territory (and even then, it began in response to allied Gaulish tribes requesting their help against German invaders). And that was really the death of the Republic and start of the Empire.

The Republic just prior to becoming the Empire was very much like America today. Hint, hint.

Dude, I played Rome Total War. I know what they were like :yes:

Kind of how you helped my country when the Russians went over the border twice? Yeah, thanks a lot for that.

Probably should take that up with the Brits. We didn't even have a treaty with you, but we liberated you anyhow. And no, I can't find your country on a map.

@Euros' inferiority complex

/scoreboard. And by /scoreboard, I mean look at the results. Any way you want to spin it, you won't find a better superpower in the history of humanity.

 

[krischan]

Dude, I played Rome Total War. I know what they were like :yes:

I'm currently playing the Saxons in the Barbarian Invasion expansion, so I know quite well what the various Germanic tribes were like and it isn't that difficult to kick the butts of the Romans there :whistling:

BTW, the US did not liberate England. The US surely saved their butts (and a couple of other butts here) while they liberated e.g. France.

Regarding the inferiority complex, it's actually the other way around with respect to a couple of people in the US. In summary, there are envious people on both sides of the ocean.

You are missing the point with your superpower talk. Most people in Europe agree that the US is rather moderate for a superpower. It's just that people don't buy the "we do it to fight evil" explanation which you seem to believe yourself, even if it was true. I think I already said that before.

 

[HegemonKhan]

my own views on my country, the U.S. :

the people of my country care much about others' well being and such. humanitarian work, fighitng poverty, disease (AIDS in particular), etc...

however, the government does NOT care about any of that. the only thing our government cares about is protecting our country (mainly including themselves) and national (self) interest (that is a benefit for the U.S.).

as to "iraq" (actually our entire middle east presence, iraq being only 1 of the countries):

MISSION/PURPOSE/REASON for being in the MIDDLE EAST:

1. natural interest. PROTECTION (FOR THE U.S.). The MIDDLE EAST IS where all the violence to the world (and the U.S., 9-11) is coming from. the people/government-(religious power) there have a culture and society of violence that has made this be so. i believe the actual mission is to control the middle east. iraq and afghanistan are merely the first two battles in our war to control the middle east. once the middle east is controlled by us (the U.S.) the violence to the world (and the U.S.) will stop. that is protection policy.

2. national interest. OIL. the middle east is where much of the oil is at. controlling the middle east would greatly be advantageous for us (the U.S.) and the rest of the world as at our mercy, jsut as the world is at currently with OPAC or OPEC (not sure what's its anacrynim/title).

minor mission/purpose/reason for being in the MIDDLE EAST:

1. helping out our ally, isreal. the world and most countries seem to forget what being allies means..... or maybe jsut don't want war even at the cost of their allies.

side effects for being in the MIDDLE EAST:

1. "helping" (debatable. well saddam was vile. the situation is SLOWLY improving. so i guess in total, it was a good thing for the iraqi's, if the SLOW progress continues at least towards a better future than under saddam's rule and iran doesn't succeed in stopping this) out the iraqis is merely a side effect. a good side effect, but still a side effect and not our actual mission/reason for being there.

2. helping to protect OTHER countries. The MIDDLE EAST IS where all the violence to the world (OTHER countries) is coming from. the people/government-(religious power) there have a culture and society of violence that has made this be so. i believe the actual mission is to control the middle east. iraq and afghanistan are merely the first two battles in our war to control the middle east. once the middle east is controlled by us (the U.S.) the violence to the world (OTHER countries) will stop. that is protection policy.

 

[Garbad_the_Weak]

BTW, the US did not liberate England. The US surely saved their butts (and a couple of other butts here) while they liberated e.g. France.

Regarding the inferiority complex, it's actually the other way around with respect to a couple of people in the US. In summary, there are envious people on both sides of the ocean.

You are missing the point with your superpower talk. Most people in Europe agree that the US is rather moderate for a superpower. It's just that people don't buy the "we do it to fight evil" explanation which you seem to believe yourself, even if it was true. I think I already said that before.

Its frightening how many views you attribute to me in this post that have no basis in reality. I'll bold a few that I never stated.

And the saxons are **** tbh. Download rome total realism. Its far better than the vanilla game. The alexander xpac is very good also.

 

[HegemonKhan]

i'll stay out of the historic debate. if u think i'm already really opinionated, u hadn't seen nothing yet. i am REALLY OPINIONATED with history (loves history, ANCIENT HISTORY), so i'll spare everyone and not get involved

 

[krischan]

Its frightening how many views you attribute to me in this post that have no basis in reality. I'll bold a few that I never stated.

And the saxons are **** tbh. Download rome total realism. Its far better than the vanilla game. The alexander xpac is very good also.

As you bolded none of them, my conclusion is that I was on spot with everything

Of course, the Saxons in that game are nothing but a collection of attributes to make the game playable. In no way could the Germanic tribes have competed with the Romans if the latter weren't that decadent and self-absorbed at that time. I just chose them because I live in their starting area :azn: