7 year old dies protecting his sister from a rapist.

[lAmebAdger]

just don't fall to any of the sort of extremistic (but evidently common) views you described...

i know the younger generations are more prone to it (i am one of them), but there's always a balancing factor, always, don't let it get steamrolled

also, we obama infatuated people need to put him in perspective and watch the actions of his government closely (yes, i said his government, as in, a group of people and not just one person)

 

[jmervyn]

just don't fall to any of the sort of extremistic (but evidently common) views you described...

i know the younger generations are more prone to it (i am one of them), but there's always a balancing factor, always, don't let it get steamrolled

You mean like how Bush is the root of all evil? :wink:

also, we obama infatuated people need to put him in perspective and watch the actions of his government closely (yes, i said his government, as in, a group of people and not just one person)

I'm expecting his term to be a disaster, but one which hopefully can be recovered from with relative ease. Jimmy Carter's second term, so to speak. He's definitely not going to be all smiles & sunshine for your economies, per the Iceland article I cited.

 

[lAmebAdger]

if you mean bush-->evil as the balancing factor, then no with a big HAHA
if you mean bush-->evil as in extremistic view one should not fall for, then yep,something like that

anything about obama's group at this stage is just plain speculation in my opinion, i'm not expecting anything, but changing my attitude a little with every result... there are going to be ups and downs is all i'll venture to write for now...

 

[SaroDarksbane]

i believe i said he is F-I-L-T-H that needs to be removed from planet earth and it's 7 billion human inhabitants, ASAP.

Don't confuse the punishment with the process that is used to determine and carry out the punishment.

It's all well and fine to say the he deserves the death penalty for his actions, if convicted of the crime. But to opine that he should be denied any sort of due process because of the nature of the crime is to put the cart before the horse.

Consider: Tomorrow, someone lies to your neighbor and tells him that you are molesting his daughter. According to you, he should immediately come to your door and torture you hideously before shooting you in the head, right?

when u choose to do such a monstrous thing, u choose to relinquist whatever rights u might have had.

You're not big on the meaning of "rights", are you?

what we need to instill into humanity is what u do NOT have the right to do.

True. But oddly enough, violating the rights of another does not mean you yourself have no rights, or that the system should ignore your rights.

 

[krischan]

...

Not that long ago, similar things were said by people in my country who believed that certain other people were filth as well. They made it happen and they were very consequent and efficient at that.

That's almost exclusively due to your media filter, and glosses over the fact that the reason this image was crafted was that both your government and that of the French were in bed with Saddam Hussein. But again, that's only the political side of things; you're temporarily infatuated with Obama and so for at least a couple of months you're probably not going to be calling Americans babykillers and bloodthirsty thugs.Many Americans, on the other hand, have gained the increasing impression that you're going to hell in a handbasket while continuing to scream Bush hatred (being too stultified to do anything else). The "Freedom Fries" stuff was undeniably stupid, but there's still a perception that y'all hate us because we <do> stand against what we consider evil, while you won't.

1. It's actually the US which has a something like a media filter.
2. It was actually the US who sold weapons to the Iraq, in particular when Hussein was a good guy because of invading Iran, even though he wasn't any different back then.
3. You aren't claiming that the war against Iraq was about what the US government told us, are you ?
4. I never said that I support Obama.
5. I never called any US American a babykiller or bloodthirsty thug. I just call baby killers and thugs like that and that's not limited to those from America.
6. Iceland is just one European country out of more than 50, with a particularly small population. Germany has about 250 times as many citizens and Europe has more than 2000 times as many. I agree with you that it was a stupid idea of them to invest so much of their wealth into the US housing bubble, however.
7. Where did I say that I hate Americans ?
8. You just stand against what you want to perceive as evil and it looks as if you are ignoring the evil when fighting it has no other benefits. When is North Korea being invaded ? There are certainly more evil things happening there than in the Iraq.
9. The freedom fries issue caused a lot of laughter here about those Americans who called us cowards while it's actually them who are considered as such in most of the world, fighting wars because they overpower their enemies massively. I for myself think that this coward issue is silly and using all you have to your advantage in a war is obviously a good idea, but I laughed pretty hard about people accusing others of what they are themselves in the eyes of so many others.

You are trying to make points by commenting on things I never said, but thanks for telling me which insults you can hear when European just opens his mouth.

Sometimes I generalized you = all of the US here. I'm aware that not everybody is of your opinion.

 

[phool]

As noted, this is only because the cost to citizenry has been deliberately inflated beyond any rational level, and is also subject to the same false comparison you just made. On the DP side are lumped all the legal costs, while on the incarceration side, only food & board. Those incarcerated for life have an even greater number of opportunities to clog the legal system at amazing costs. Were it only the cost of execution, I'd warrant that you could get companies or even charities to pick up the tab a la Running Man. I bet there would be web pages sprouting up offering to fund the bullets or lethal injection chemicals.

I know and knew where the costs incurred come from and it changes nothing. That (a) death sentences are currently counter-productive in the US legal system and (b) I would personally approve of them otherwise (unless (c) prisoners' time was actually put to something economically useful). Under circumstances where the law has been changed to reduce the ability of death row prisoners to expensively delay the process I'd have nothing against the death penalty.

Of the 3 primary reasons for criminal sanction, of preventation, deterrence and revenge (or 'righting an imbalance' if you will), the death penalty only preferentially serves the last one which has no useful purpose beyond avoiding social dissatification and perceived injustice, at a cost to taxpayers.

Yet you find the non-lethal assault of a 7-year-old defending an innocent 12-year-old against a recidivist criminal unlawful, based on the fact that the criminal had not at that point in time decided to slit the 12-year-old's throat as is often the pattern.

I do? No, no I don't, and no 'we' don't. In fact I expressly stated one of the simplest reasons why 'my' country wouldn't spend an instant considering the child's actions. Have the basic respect of reading my posts in full before deteriorating into empty nationalism and I'll consider educating you as to the extent of their culpability if they were older in the UK's EU compliant criminal system, if you actually care.

Or just read this www.lawcom.gov.uk/docs/lc304.pdf

 

[phool]

"growing-up"-"maturity" (responsibility) is not based on biology (age) but on society-environment-situation.

in today's modern times due to having decently well off parents, their kids are able/allowed to remain irresponsible well into even their 20's. the wealthier the parents the easier it is to be irresponsible. how many hard-working self-made millionaires have children who are just as hard-working and self-make their own wealth like their parent(s), instead of being irresponsible and just leeching-vampiring off their parent(s) wealth. NOT MANY.

people in a more serious and difficult situation are able/must and DO become responsible even at like 5 years old. a father dies or "runs off" and the boy has to be responsible and become a man despite only being 5 years old. or a daugther has to be a responsible woman. if both parents are killed, an older sibling can and probably will become responsible and take care of their younger sibling just as if their parents would have.

responsibility has NOTHING to do with age-biology and EVERYTHING to do with socialogy-environment-situations.

If all your posts were like this one I would reply to them more often.

I should point out however the brain of a child is not a fully developed organ and there are clearly demonstrable limitations in what children are capable of comprehending, regardless of their circumstances.

this is where torture is a very very very good thing (and i don't mean water boarding...i mean REAL torture) ....really make him scream [...] needs to be removed from planet earth and it's 7 billion human inhabitants, ASAP.

These sentiments seem rather at odds with each other. Should he be tortured because he lacks respect for other humans and puts that lack of disrespect into unconscionable practice, or should he be removed, one way or another, to the effect he no longer poses a risk to other huma beings? Nothing is gained from the torture of a soon to be dead/permanently imprisoned individual, unless the satisfaction you may derive. Is it moral to tailor criminal punishment to making other people happy?

Don't worry hippies, you have already won. Killing a man in the process of raping your 8 year old son is still murder.

http://www.russiatoday.com/news/news/32947

The evidential burden probably shifts towards the defendent when attempting a defence of necessity/duress in Russia (as could often be necessary to secure any convictions at all), with the long conviction being on a point of evidence, not law. Of course if you know more of this case than that brief article, and Russian law for that matter, by all means post it. UK lawyers tend to cite commonwealth, US, European and UK cases only (and due to most of those having zero authority, only outside of court of course), I wouldn't imagine Russian law is a particularly useful point of comparison.

In a nutshell, Europe is back to the same childish naivete they had in 1938.

Please, embellish that one.

 

[trashX]

Thanks, glad it entertained you :girly: I laughed when I read yours too :wink:

may i ask why? I was simply translating what people mean when they use "human" in that way. please elaborate

and responing to the other poster, yes i believe that not all (biological) humans deserve human rights. Only those that earn it. Everyone starts with a fair chance, it's up to you if you want to waste it. It's not like he didn't know raping a little girl was not allowed.

 

[SaroDarksbane]

yes i believe that not all (biological) humans deserve human rights. Only those that earn it.

Then you don't believe in rights. You should find a different word (privileges?).

 

[Garbad_the_Weak]

I rather think that the US showed a lot of childish naivety in the last few years (or should I better say ignorance and arrogance ?) and that the rest of the world is well advised not to look for what's your understanding of a benevolent hegemony - not to be confused with what other US Americans mean with it.

Well, yeah, I'd say the US is a pretty benevolent hegemony. Can you find another example in history of a nation with an unqualified military supremacy that hasn't invaded and dominated its neighbors? Can you find an example of any superpower in history that has allowed the weak nations more freedom, money, and a free ride on their prosperity engine?

Next time you make fun of us fat, uncultured arrogant cowboy americans, you should ponder what life would have been like if literally ANY other country/group in the history of civilization had been in our shoes. I'll tell you this much -- if ancient Rome was in the place of the US you wouldn't be *****ing about how the Romans didn't value your culture enough. They would just round up your intelligentsia and butcher them. If you didn't like it, they would raze your cities and take all your ****. Carthage, anyone? Seriously, find me any example of any civilization that could dominate the world militarily and yet chose not to. You won't find an example in europe (pretty damn near every euro nation/people has taken its turn on top, raped and plundered the other guys, some many times [coughfrancecough]).

In all seriousness, you euros should stfu. Your example as superpowers was one of the worst, and its only out of our pure benevolence that we have let you freeload your way into modern life. We've already proven that we are morally, culturally, and technologically superior to you in every imaginable way, and we don't need your advice. You should thank your lucky stars that we are more civilized and generous than your civilization was/is, and need to quitcher*****in.

 

[krischan]

I certainly agree that the US is one of the more benevolent superpowers in comparison to previous ones, but that doesn't mean that you are going to tell anybody to stfu. You can say it, but it is irrelevant. Also, I never said that the Americans are fat and uncultured. I generalized a bit when saying that they were arrogant and ignorant in the recent past, but I was delibately generalizing in reply to your generalizing statement.

My grandparents can surely be grateful (and they actually were grateful) that the US have been that generous and tolerant. I appreciate that a lot in retrospect, but I don't not owe you any gratitude and in particular, you are not going to tell me which opinion I have to have about that. Neither you nor me were born back then. I can just laugh about your demanding attitude with respect to that.

The US has its own burden to carry with what they did in the past. They aren't superior at all.

 

[trashX]

Then you don't believe in rights. You should find a different word (privileges?).

Hmm i don't see why i should. I believe everyone is born with rights, but not that you keep them if you abuse them. I don't see how what i said is a privilege, isn't that something that raises you above others? For example the privilege to buy a 100'000 $ car. In short:
Privileges: are earned
Rights: are given, but can be lost
at least thats how i see it

About the US being arrogant in the past Krischan, not that im trying to say they weren't, but how does the war in iraq(if thats what you mean) affect you?. It's just like with you not being grateful(not saying you should) because you weren't alive at that time.
not trying to attack you but i think i see a double standard(not sure about use of this word)
if i missread or judged corect me please

 

[Garbad_the_Weak]

My grandparents can surely be grateful (and they actually were grateful) that the US have been that generous and tolerant.

I wasn't only referring to the US liberating europe twice in two generations. I figure french support of the American revolution paid for WWI and you can have WWII as a freebie. And in any event we should be thanking the russians at Stalingrad and Leningrad anyhow.

Instead, I meant the benefit Europe gets from the US today, and every other year since we rose to power. For example, at this moment you euros are leeching technology/capital from us (although you are pretty advanced, you are still well behind us in many areas, especially health care, computers, advanced technology, and warfare). Our existence drags up your quality of life, just because we are willing to share with you and you get more from the deal. But more importantly, because we have paid the bill to enforce relative global peace and prosperity for the last 65 years, you euros have been able to freeload off of big brother and still enjoy the benefits of peace. So while we are paying for the guns, you got to enjoy the butter and still know we had your back. This has enabled your silly forays into socialism and naivete pacifism without getting rickrolled by a soviet tank blob that doesn't play by your rules. Not only did you not learn from 1938, this time there won't be a churchill to save you because you simply don't have the means to survive without us, even if you had the will.

I certainly agree that the US is one of the more benevolent superpowers in comparison to previous ones, but that doesn't mean that you are going to tell anybody to stfu.

But back to my point, the whole reason you can to ***** is because we allow it, out of the goodness of our hearts. Its because we value *****ing as a generalized principle, believe it or not. But next time you euros start banging the anti-american drum, ask yourself this: Has there ever, at any time in history, been any nation or civilization that has been better by any standard you wish to use?

Then pinch yourself and be quiet. Maybe even toss out a thank you if you feel embarrassed enough.

 

[sevencreature]

We've already proven that we are morally, culturally, and technologically superior to you in every imaginable way, and we don't need your advice. You should thank your lucky stars that we are more civilized and generous than your civilization was/is, and need to quitcher*****in.

Seriously? :crazyeyes: Lol, didn't know EU was so hated in US, I generally haven't met anyone in person (except for those fatatics which are in every country) who would 'hate' US (of course, there are some jokes and stuff, but we are joking about every other country and I think it's the same everywhere).

I think Iraq is nice (uhm, not really 'nice' literaly) example why US haven't tried to invade and dominate other countries (Vietnam anyone?)...

Seems you are forgeting about Asia and China in particular - probably the new hegemony?

Anyway, I am not sure if those countries behind Iron Curtain owes US something... :scratchchin: Still I don't understand why all that hatred(?)...

trashX: Well, if you haven't understand why did I laugh, it is rather hard to explain it to you I am afraid...

 

[trashX]

you're good at dodgeing seven can't you just admit you had a bad comeback? when you're wrong jsut admit it. people will respect you more that if you stick to a stupid statement jsut to prove a point

when did garbad say he hated EU? He said the US was superior. Do you hate children because you know more? I don't think so.

also the amount of people that hate americans in europe greatly outnumbers the amount of americans that hate europeans. not that i have the statistics to prove it, its just firsthand experience. maybe ive gotten unlucky

 

[phool]

Maybe you have an infectious laugh? A poor comeback to an unecessary putdown, when did that become something to gloat over?

Hates is far too strong a word. Perhaps an unruly child might be a more accurate description of the European perception of America. Definitely America presents a peculiar paradox, a unique blend of the progressive and regressive.

Well, yeah, I'd say the US is a pretty benevolent hegemony. Can you find another example in history of a nation with an unqualified military supremacy that hasn't invaded and dominated its neighbors? Can you find an example of any superpower in history that has allowed the weak nations more freedom, money, and a free ride on their prosperity engine?

Next time you make fun of us fat, uncultured arrogant cowboy americans, you should ponder what life would have been like if literally ANY other country/group in the history of civilization had been in our shoes. I'll tell you this much -- if ancient Rome was in the place of the US you wouldn't be *****ing about how the Romans didn't value your culture enough. They would just round up your intelligentsia and butcher them. If you didn't like it, they would raze your cities and take all your ****. Carthage, anyone? Seriously, find me any example of any civilization that could dominate the world militarily and yet chose not to. You won't find an example in europe (pretty damn near every euro nation/people has taken its turn on top, raped and plundered the other guys, some many times [coughfrancecough]).

In all seriousness, you euros should stfu. Your example as superpowers was one of the worst, and its only out of our pure benevolence that we have let you freeload your way into modern life. We've already proven that we are morally, culturally, and technologically superior to you in every imaginable way, and we don't need your advice. You should thank your lucky stars that we are more civilized and generous than your civilization was/is, and need to quitcher*****in.

Yeah, let it all out. Count to 10. Feeling better? That's quite a chip on your shoulder you have there, jealousy perhaps , or maybe an imagined barb has hit a nerve? Regardless, I be taking your rant apart piece by piece... there are better forums for when I want to bash my head against a wall, where I pleasure in a eating a daily dose of vitriol for breakfast. Of course it's easy to draw comparisons between a C20 superpower and BC one, especially when you have no history to speak of. At least, I assume you weren't counting your imperialist European ancestors :whistling:

 

[sevencreature]

*sigh* Ok then.

When you use the term like that you're referring to the "human" way to live(civilised etc) not saying all humans live like that btw.

And? My joke with Vulcan was misunderstood? If you say "this ....filth...ain't a human" I would like to know, what is he then? Because what he did is what humans do. Maybe you were referencing to "humane" instead?

Saying he isnt human means he has chosen to go against all rules of society. Not that he biologically isn't human.

So when you type "this ....filth...ain't a human." you are basically meaning "he has chosen to go against all rules of society." :scratchchin:

I, probably contrary to you, think, that by "human" we are talking about humans with all their natural traits. And, in case you have missed that, humans are killing, raping and torturing each other for few thousands of years now. Each day.

Oh, and also those silly invectives of yours amused me a bit

 

[Garbad_the_Weak]

Hates is far too strong a word. Perhaps an unruly child might be a more accurate description of the European perception of America. Definitely America presents a peculiar paradox, a unique blend of the progressive and regressive.

Yeah, let it all out. Count to 10. Feeling better? That's quite a chip on your shoulder you have there, jealousy perhaps , or maybe an imagined barb has hit a nerve? Regardless, I be taking your rant apart piece by piece... there are better forums for when I want to bash my head against a wall, where I pleasure in a eating a daily dose of vitriol for breakfast. Of course it's easy to draw comparisons between a C20 superpower and BC one, especially when you have no history to speak of. At least, I assume you weren't counting your imperialist European ancestors :whistling:

If you don't have something to say, why post at all? Back it up or go home.

 

[phool]

If you don't have something to say, why post at all? Back it up or go home.

Sorry, did you just tell me to 'back up' my words, after you... contribute... to the thread with garbage like this?

We've already proven that we are morally, culturally, and technologically superior to you in every imaginable way

Yeah, sounds like a good use of my time:coffee:

 

[krischan]

...

Could you even remotely imagine that you are wrong at a few points ? Probably not, so I'm not going to waste my time with elaborating on it.