7 year old dies protecting his sister from a rapist.

[HegemonKhan]

"growing-up"-"maturity" (responsibility) is not based on biology (age) but on society-environment-situation.

in today's modern times due to having decently well off parents, their kids are able/allowed to remain irresponsible well into even their 20's. the wealthier the parents the easier it is to be irresponsible. how many hard-working self-made millionaires have children who are just as hard-working and self-make their own wealth like their parent(s), instead of being irresponsible and just leeching-vampiring off their parent(s) wealth. NOT MANY.

people in a more serious and difficult situation are able/must and DO become responsible even at like 5 years old. a father dies or "runs off" and the boy has to be responsible and become a man despite only being 5 years old. or a daugther has to be a responsible woman. if both parents are killed, an older sibling can and probably will become responsible and take care of their younger sibling just as if their parents would have.

responsibility has NOTHING to do with age-biology and EVERYTHING to do with socialogy-environment-situations.

 

[lAmebAdger]

that's a bit extreme, you can't rule out that the sense of responsibility of a human is going to get influenced by his hormone system. it could drive him to calmly take things into account or hotheadedly throwing responsible caution to the winds

also, said higher sense of responsibility in poorer circumstances doesn't stop people from going criminal (an opposite of responsible), or said lower sense of responsibility on higher-end kids doesn't mess with the fact, that they are less likely to get desparate and do something irrationally/irresponsibly criminal

 

[Amra]

"growing-up"-"maturity" (responsibility) is not based on biology (age) but on society-environment-situation.

I'd say that is half true.

in today's modern times due to having decently well off parents, their kids are able/allowed to remain irresponsible well into even their 20's. the wealthier the parents the easier it is to be irresponsible. how many hard-working self-made millionaires have children who are just as hard-working and self-make their own wealth like their parent(s), instead of being irresponsible and just leeching-vampiring off their parent(s) wealth. NOT MANY.

Any irresponsibility is the fault of the parents, not wealth. I could site numerous examples both from personal observations and from more famous people. The Kennedy family for example has examples of both.

people in a more serious and difficult situation are able/must and DO become responsible even at like 5 years old. a father dies or "runs off" and the boy has to be responsible and become a man despite only being 5 years old. or a daugther has to be a responsible woman. if both parents are killed, an older sibling can and probably will become responsible and take care of their younger sibling just as if their parents would have.

A broad generalization. Many people in "difficult situations" turn to the state to take care of them. Or become homeless or such and not productive members of society.

 

[krischan]

i meant snatching them while the old woman is looking but out of reach

EDIT: still hope that's still robbery...

That's just theft. Robbery is theft involving violence or intimidation.

Source

 

[jmervyn]

@jmervyn: bout the self-defense issue: phool wasn't saying the stabbing of the 7-year old was unlawful, in fact, i think phool would ay the law is on the side of the 7-year old because the boy acted according to criminal proportion.

I'd make a joke about channeling phool, but that would be just wrong.

phool was just stating that your prejudice against europeans that they commonly are anti-self-defense is plain wrong, because proportionately justifiable self-defense is lawful (like the stabbing by the boy)

PS: i also think this prejudice against europeans is plain wrong ...

Oh, I think Euros are more than capable of conducting self-defense, whether for the interest of lebensraum or other reasons; I was in London during the Falklands War, and France was quite cavalier when more recently invading other countries. And having lived for quite some time in Europe, I personally know a number of Europeans who wouldn't agree with the majority's leftist/pacifist bent. I'd imagine that even labor union members would commit violence at the drop of a hat.

But the fact is, most Europeans are currently more than just comfy in their overly-civilized environment; they're ignoring threats as is seen with the condemnation of Geert Wilders or continued dealings with Iraq and other Islamist-supporting types.

It's preferable for them nowadays to harshly condemn Israelis in specificity, or Americans in general, for acting in such a manner - even whilst sitting on one's hands when it comes to Bosnians (or the massacre in Darfur). I'd venture a guess that you have at least once bought into the American-as-cowboy-savage imagery. But when NATO finally collapses, I'm sure that there will be plenty of European defense-mindedness to go around. Probably about the time that the U.S. has finally reached where Europe was 10 years ago. Real soon now.

 

[sevencreature]

this ....filth...ain't a human.

ORLY? And what is he? Vulcan? Welcome to the real world btw. I have to say that this sentence is rather laughable, really (it's sad, but true).

that's true, but why not jsut blow his brains out...what's the difference from making him suffer (imprisonment) or jsut "removing him from this world" and being done with it?

Um, because we have laws, and guilt has to be proven before sentence is carried out? :scratchchin: Yeah, I know, such stupid necessity - let's just shoot suspects on the site, let the God sort 'em out. And remember - in today's world, media are always right :thumbup:

be warned...my blood is on fire....i am very passionate about this...

#1 Recommendation in similar situations (as in make your 'blood to be on fire'): Take a deep breath and don't do anything impetous.

i AM for REAL PHYSICAL suffering (not imprisonment-mental suffering)....this is where torture is a very very very good thing (and i don't mean water boarding...i mean REAL torture) ....really make him scream

I hope you won't have any objections when somebody decides to torture you to death then. Their milleage of 'act worth of death by torture' may vary, you know.

Rembember that death by torture was quite favorite in the past - and as usual, 'political' cases ended the worst, it seems...

 

[Garbad_the_Weak]

I'd make a joke about channeling phool, but that would be just wrong.
Oh, I think Euros are more than capable of conducting self-defense, whether for the interest of lebensraum or other reasons; I was in London during the Falklands War, and France was quite cavalier when more recently invading other countries. And having lived for quite some time in Europe, I personally know a number of Europeans who wouldn't agree with the majority's leftist/pacifist bent. I'd imagine that even labor union members would commit violence at the drop of a hat.

But the fact is, most Europeans are currently more than just comfy in their overly-civilized environment; they're ignoring threats as is seen with the condemnation of Geert Wilders or continued dealings with Iraq and other Islamist-supporting types.

It's preferable for them nowadays to harshly condemn Israelis in specificity, or Americans in general, for acting in such a manner - even whilst sitting on one's hands when it comes to Bosnians (or the massacre in Darfur). I'd venture a guess that you have at least once bought into the American-as-cowboy-savage imagery. But when NATO finally collapses, I'm sure that there will be plenty of European defense-mindedness to go around. Probably about the time that the U.S. has finally reached where Europe was 10 years ago. Real soon now.

In a nutshell, Europe is back to the same childish naivete they had in 1938. Let's all pray it doesn't have similarly disastrous results. It took a Churchill to go against the current then and literally save all of Europe. What will it take this time, especially if the US stops letting the euros cower under our benevolent hegemony?

 

[trashX]

sevencreature, are you stupid or just acting like it? When you use the term like that you're referring to the "human" way to live(civilised etc) not saying all humans live like that btw. Saying he isnt human means he has chosen to go against all rules of society. Not that he biologically isn't human. I laughed when i read your post. I thought this would be obvious. Seams it isnt. Sad but true

 

[jmervyn]

In a nutshell, Europe is back to the same childish naivete they had in 1938. Let's all pray it doesn't have similarly disastrous results. It took a Churchill to go against the current then and literally save all of Europe. What will it take this time, especially if the US stops letting the euros cower under our benevolent hegemony?

Well, in fairness I cited a lot more of the external/'macro' aspects of self defense than I did of the personal. The underlying assumptions remain the same, though I'm being a bit hypocritical because I reject the Christian principle of 'turning the other cheek' when it comes to issues outside of the personal realm. I suppose its that I reject some claims that personal morality should equate to national morality as foolish, while considering it legitimate in other venues.

 

[sevencreature]

I laughed when i read your post.

Thanks, glad it entertained you :girly: I laughed when I read yours too :wink:

 

[lAmebAdger]

Well, in fairness I cited a lot more of the external/'macro' aspects of self defense than I did of the personal. The underlying assumptions remain the same, though I'm being a bit hypocritical because I reject the Christian principle of 'turning the other cheek' when it comes to issues outside of the personal realm. I suppose its that I reject some claims that personal morality should equate to national morality as foolish, while considering it legitimate in other venues.

(you're not hypocrit, or just slightly, and then it's even not such a bad thing in this quantity...)

wow, you and garbad are really pessimistic about europeans, i can't say the same for me, but i guess i'm a bit idealistic

i think there's a certain conflicting thinking at the moment between America and Europe, that acts kind of balancing
think about it: they go hand in hand in critically overthinking each others actions and that's something a democracy finds important

 

[SaroDarksbane]

Saying he isnt human means he has chosen to go against all rules of society. Not that he biologically isn't human.

So when someone says "human rights", they mean that only people who obey the law have rights?

Interesting.

I was under the impression that "human rights" referred to the biological human, and not just "whoever we decide is a human today".

 

[lAmebAdger]

aww, give it a rest
then just swap "conforming with law" with "conforming with moral values"
and then accept that some people think those who act so immorally that a certain limit is overstepped will lose their human rights

happy?

 

[SaroDarksbane]

then accept that some people think those who act so immorally that a certain limit is overstepped will lose their human rights

Like people who eat pork.

Why aren't they all up against the wall yet?

 

[krischan]

In a nutshell, Europe is back to the same childish naivete they had in 1938. Let's all pray it doesn't have similarly disastrous results. It took a Churchill to go against the current then and literally save all of Europe. What will it take this time, especially if the US stops letting the euros cower under our benevolent hegemony?

Perhaps my sarcasm sensors need checking, but: :lol2:

I rather think that the US showed a lot of childish naivety in the last few years (or should I better say ignorance and arrogance ?) and that the rest of the world is well advised not to look for what's your understanding of a benevolent hegemony - not to be confused with what other US Americans mean with it.

 

[lAmebAdger]

@saro:are you muslim or sarcastic?

on a side note: some people think eating man's best friend is a sin (dog)

 

[Dondrei]

Yes. Robbery is theft with armed force. If you steal sweets in a store when nobody is watching, that's theft. Robbery is if you threaten people with a knife to get them.

That's aggravated robbery. Robbery may or may not involve violence/threats, I think.

I was under the impression that "human rights" referred to the biological human, and not just "whoever we decide is a human today".

Well, that's a hotly contested point.

 

[HegemonKhan]

to quote the movie batman begins: "it is not who we are, but what we do, that defines us."

of course biologically everyone is human, but does DNA determine humanity or does behavior/actions ?

i'm on batman's side behavior/actions is what makes u good or evil, human or monster (inhuman).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
I hope you won't have any objections when somebody decides to torture you to death then. Their milleage of 'act worth of death by torture' may vary, you know. -seven creature

if i ever try or worse succeed or even have the thought of any type of sexuality with a little girl, i'll torture and kill myself first, than what's left of me, anyone else has my full permission to torture and kill me, and than what's left of me after that, the state has my full permission to torture and kill me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HegemonKhan
this ....filth...ain't a human.

ORLY? And what is he? Vulcan? Welcome to the real world btw. I have to say that this sentence is rather laughable, really (it's sad, but true). -seven creature

i believe i said he is F-I-L-T-H that needs to be removed from planet earth and it's 7 billion human inhabitants, ASAP.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
there ARE those who choose to do such a heinous and unconsciousible act that there is no mercy no acceptance no excuss no justification no leniency.

messing with a little girl is such and EVIL act and choice. when u choose to do such a monstrous thing, u choose to relinquist whatever rights u might have had.

ZERO TOLERANCE
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
i'm sick and tired of rights, we all know what our rights are.

what we need to instill into humanity is what u do NOT have the right to do.

you do NOT have the right to mess with a little girl.

you do NOT have the right to strap on a bomb and blow up a families in restaurants or on busses or at a wedding.

you do NOT have the right to use chemical, biological, nuclear weapons.

you do NOT have the right to speak of or desire or attempt or succeed at the destruction of a group of people.

you do NOT have the right to do nothing while some one is commiting a crime.

you do NOT have the right to let some one do something that they do NOT have the right to do.

you do NOT have the right .......etc.......

 

[lAmebAdger]

still, we need a trial to finally conclude that he is guilty and then enforce zero tolerance and all that other stuff you said...

also, i believe: there will always be rotten humans and we need to accept that you don't have to be humane to be a human (get it?)
it is simply part of natural human behaviour to do evil things, but thank god it's also part of human behaviour to punish/avenge/control these things and do good things in turn (!)

 

[jmervyn]

wow, you and garbad are really pessimistic about europeans, i can't say the same for me, but i guess i'm a bit idealistic

I grew up in Europe - but quite some time ago. It's changed substantially thanks to the EU.

they go hand in hand in critically overthinking each others actions and that's something a democracy finds important

There's a difference between criticism and hate. I have come to the realization that the latter is prevalent, particularly among the younger generation who have no recollection of WW2 and have not suffered through real economic hardship. Not that they're substantially different from many young Americans, mind you. But the harshest acrimony directed at societal mores, combined with the most cowardly of attitudes to (if not admiration of) <real> hostility or criminality, doesn't make for a bright future.

I rather think that the US showed a lot of childish naivety in the last few years (or should I better say ignorance and arrogance ?) and that the rest of the world is well advised not to look for what's your understanding of a benevolent hegemony - not to be confused with what other US Americans mean with it.

That's almost exclusively due to your media filter, and glosses over the fact that the reason this image was crafted was that both your government and that of the French were in bed with Saddam Hussein. But again, that's only the political side of things; you're temporarily infatuated with Obama and so for at least a couple of months you're probably not going to be calling Americans babykillers and bloodthirsty thugs.

Many Americans, on the other hand, have gained the increasing impression that you're going to hell in a handbasket while continuing to scream Bush hatred (being too stultified to do anything else). The "Freedom Fries" stuff was undeniably stupid, but there's still a perception that y'all hate us because we <do> stand against what we consider evil, while you won't.

to quote

Hey, HK, can you do us all a favor? The use of quote tags will make your posts incredibly more comprehensible. You annotate in this fashion:
{QUOTE=HegemonKhan}to quote{/quote}