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3 Questions :)

Discussion in 'Theorycrafting and Statistics' started by Alvim, May 16, 2009.

  1. Alvim

    Alvim Diabloii.Net Member

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    3 Questions :)

    1 - Is there anything on the game that reduce magic damage (note: not elemental), like bone spear, by an integer?

    2 - How does ''% dmg goes to mana'' work? The income dmg used is the final damage taken into LIFE?

    3 - How does ''% to maximum mana" work? Is it based on energy or base mana? Is the % also applyed to the mana that comes from items (like +20 to mana)?

    PS: sry for my poor english :(
     
  2. Orphan

    Orphan Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: 3 Questions :)

    Kind of. As you probably already know, "magic damage reduced by xx" only affects elementals (fire/lightning/cold) and other than that, there's magic resists and magic absorb, both of which only affect magic (eg blessed hammer, bone spear).

    Magic resist is % based (found on safety shield), but there are also straight magic absorb (Crescent Moon runeword, as well as other runewords), so it's technically a form of straight magic reduction.

    Of the final damage which affects your character, a certain % is added to your mana. This doesn't reduce the damage in any way though. For example, if you had "10% damage taken goes to mana" and your health took 500 damage, then you would gain 50 mana but still take 500 damage.

    Maximum Mana % is added to other sources of mana % (eg Battle Orders) and boosts your base mana + any form of straight +mana. In other words, it won't amplify mana acquired through +energy items (or +energy per level), or mana acquired per +mana per level (don't remember off the top of my head whether such the latter two exists on an item)

    So in summary, to determine your maximum mana you would:

    1. Determine your base mana amount (including hard points into energy)
    2. Add any sources of straight +mana
    3. Total all your sources of +Mana% (eg BO, Frostburn, some runewords, etc) and amplify your mana pool by that
    4. Add in mana gained through +energy items and +energy per level
    5. Add in mana gained through +mana per level

    Everything looked fine to me :thumbup:



     
  3. Alvim

    Alvim Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: 3 Questions :)

    Perfect... only a few points about each question:

    1 - So the The complete chart to magic reduction would be:

    1) XvX penalty (for example Player vs. Player = -5/6) -> ok
    2) Sorceress Energy Shield -> ok
    3) Integer magic reduction -> It doesn't exist.
    4) Percentage magic resist -> ok
    5) Percentage magic absorb -> Does it exist?
    6) Integer magic absorb -> ok

    ???

    2 - Is there a cap on "% dmg goes to mana"?

    3 - Strange engine... "+mana" is affected by "% to maximum mana" while "+mana based on char lvl" isn't :O

    thx
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2009
  4. Nimbostratus

    Nimbostratus Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: 3 Questions :)

    1. I'm pretty sure that MDR does apply to straight magic damage as well, not only to fire/cold/lightning.

    2. None that I know of.

    3. Eh, there are stranger things
     
  5. Alvim

    Alvim Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: 3 Questions :)

    I don't think so. Take a look at this quote from arreat sumit:
    "What is Magic Damage?
    When we refer to magic damage to players, we are referring to elemental damage (Fire, Cold, Lightning). For example, the magic prefix on items that reduces magic damage reduces elemental damage."


     
  6. onderduiker

    onderduiker Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: 3 Questions :)

    Equipping Magic Damage Reduced by 24 normally makes a player immune to an Oblivion Knight's Bone Spirits in Normal, where they apply 19-24 magic (not elemental) damage: a player only loses life when Crit doubles it to 38-48 magic damage (which only happens 5% of the time). MDR 48 makes a player completely immune to them.

    The Arreat Summit is an official site and it should be the definitive source for information... but it isn't. There have been a lot of changes to Diablo II over the years, and unfortunately the AS hasn't always been updated to reflect this.


     
  7. Alvim

    Alvim Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: 3 Questions :)

    I thought Bone Spirity was physical dmg... O.O

    So ''magic dmg reduced'' refers to magic, cold, fire and light kinds of dmg?
     
  8. struikje

    struikje Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: 3 Questions :)

    I agree that the AS is sometimes wrong, and I know nothing on the subject, but I'd take Orphan's word for it, and according to him, magic dmg red. refers to only elemental magic: cold/fire/light/poison.

    Now I'm wondering if it reduces poison dmg too

    Bone Spirit (as bonespear and teeth) is pure magical dmg, comparable to berserk and blessed hammer.
     
  9. onderduiker

    onderduiker Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: 3 Questions :)

    Normally I'd suggest taking Orphan's word for it too, if I hadn't tested it myself: Magic Damage Reduced by X reduces elemental (fire, lightning and cold, but not poison) and magic damage by X points. I assume your scepticism derives partly from the fact that even at level 1 with no synergies a Necromancer's Bone Spirits apply 20-30 magic damage, while I reported that an Oblivion Knight's Bone Spirits apply just 19-24 magic damage in Normal. This is because OKs actually use a different skill, MonBoneSpirit, which applies 6+(lvl*9) minimum and 10+(lvl*9) maximum magic damage:

    Code:
    DIFFICULTY   LEVEL   MAGIC DAMAGE
    _________________________________
    Normal           2          19-24
    Nightmare        5          51-55
    Hell             9          87-91
    
    Of course, nobody has to take anybody's word for anything, since this is something that can be tested: go to the Chaos Sanctuary in Normal, isolate an Oblivion Knight and equip MDR 24+ (48+ if you want to be immune to a Crit) and observe the (lack of) damage done by 95-100% of its Spirits. For example, equip Vampire's Gaze Grim Helm (MDR 10-15) and String of Ears Demonhide Sash (MDR 10-15).


     
  10. Alvim

    Alvim Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: 3 Questions :)

    I trust you :wink:

    But nobody answered me yet if ''% dmg goes to mana" has a cap.

    And I'm 100% sure that I read somewhere bone spirity is physical dmg... wth...
     
  11. jel

    jel Banned

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    Re: 3 Questions :)

    Which you also easy can check for yourself if you wish. :)

    First there's the bone spirit of the necromancer, check if there's a damage difference with and without amplify damage, if there's no difference (remember to take range of damage into account) then there's no physical component.

    With the oblivion knights, using magic damage reduce items to negate the magic damage, without negating physical damage (by not wearing damage reduce by integer items) would also answer if the oblivion knights have a physical component.

    However I believe there's a bug where MDR and PDR combines if attacks consist of physical damage and elemental/magic damage, therefore it'd probably be a lot smarter to just let the oblivion knight curse you with amplify damage and notice if there's difference, again taking damage range into consideration.


     
  12. Horsy

    Horsy Banned

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    Re: 3 Questions :)

    No cap my friend, you can have 500% DTGTM. Note that DTGTM mod would be impractical for Energy Shield Sorcy because only actual health loss causes you to gain mana i.e. number of life points you lose are taken as base value for % mana gain.

    Necromancers arsenal consists of pure poison dmg spells, pure magic dmg spells, and phisycal/fire like 50%-50% Corpse Explosion dmg. Skeletons have physical respectively elemental dmg (mages), Fire Golem is fire, other golems physical, and Iron Golem can be enchanted through a metal item.
     
  13. onderduiker

    onderduiker Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: 3 Questions :)

    An Oblivion Knight's Bone Spirits are pure magic damage, but those with hands that glow purple can also cast a white missile (DoomKnightMissile, undeadmissile4) that's pure physical damage:

    Code:
    DIFFICULTY   LEVEL   DAMAGE
    ___________________________
    Normal           3   27- 31
    Nightmare        6   57- 61
    Hell            10   97-101
    
    Decrepify and Amplify Damage increase their damage unless you equip enough point damage reduction to negate it before Damage Resist % is applied.


     
  14. Alvim

    Alvim Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: 3 Questions :)

    Thx you all for the info :thumbup:

    Hmm... any kind of dmg (elemental/magic/physical) goes to mana? If yes, then its not impractical for ES. If I have 50% in ES, 0 hard points into Telekinesis, 50% DTGTM (nightsmoke 4 example) and no resists (all kinds) then its like I had gained 8 points to Telekinesis, because the final absorb ratio life:mana would be 1:1.5 . So its still good for sorcs that don't have high lvl ES.


     
    Last edited: May 19, 2009
  15. jel

    jel Banned

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    Re: 3 Questions :)

    When talking about ES, it's often assumed that you're talking about 95% ES sorcs with a bit of IDR and MDR to nullify the damage you take, in that way DGTM is pointless.

    Also with stuff like insight available, and mana pots easy to buy, I don't understand why you are interested in DGTM :).


     
  16. FreezBee

    FreezBee Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: 3 Questions :)

    In the good old days, at least, DTGTM only applied to melee physical damage, making it of little interest for most Sorcs. In return, Zealots and WWers with life steal, but no mana steal, could benefit from it.

    Just my $0.02


    - FreezBee



     

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