2020 Spring RFL Sign-Up and Running Thread: 1st Round

Gripphon

Diabloii.Net Member
@ffs
Identical setup with Silk boots. For survivability I keep bone armor running, 86 fhr and active teleporting until I land on spot without cows. They usually don't swing fast enough to hit necro if he just teleports. 5-6 Revives + Iron Golem for stack.

@art_vandelay
I did, it is in last RFL running thread somewhere or results thread with some details.
 

art_vandelay

Diabloii.Net Member
Currently nearly 17 hours into my first set and the Druid is starting to feel efficient. He's only level 90 so no XP method possible yet. I made a short video of two runs and to my suprise they both turned out to be very fast (usually I'm in the 2:50 to 3:10 range) with the second one being super clumsy in the beginnging and I'm actually cursed in both of them :D
Runs are 2:45 and 2:36 according to VLC player which is far below my average.

Two things I noticed while watching:
  • I don't just teleport in a circle, I mostly zig-zag to not miss big packs but that costs time and maybe a strict circular route would be faster.
  • In order to keep moving I teleport back and forth over packs and in that process I sometimes overshoot so that some Cows on the Fissures aren't convicted anymore. I think the technique of 'hopping over packs' is good as it keeps them moving but the loss of conviction is problematic. I think this is where Facet Weapon+Spirit would really outshine HotO+Phoenix, with the +% FSD partly making up for the lost -% EFR.
Here's a comparison where I assume that I already replaced Shael in Ravenlore with FHR-Skillers and added a perfect facet:
  1. No Conviction, Phoenix+HotO: 50-28-25=-3 ; Res Bonus: *1,03 ; FSD: *1,05 __ Total: *1,0815
  2. Conviction, Phoenix+HotO: 50-85-28-25=-** ; Res Bonus: *1,** ; FSD: *1,05 __ Total: *1,974
  3. No Conviction, Facet Weapon+Spirit: 50-30-25=-5; Res Bonus: *1,05 ; FSD: *1,35 __ Total: *1,4175
  4. Conviction, Facet Weapon+Spirit: 50-85-30-25=-90; Res Bonus: *1,9 ; FSD: *1,35 __ Total: *2,565
I technically lose +1 Skill from the HotO but one could argue that replacing SoJ with beta BKWB solves that and makes it a fair comparison. The most staggering difference is in the case where conviction didn't trigger yet. This should be a definite improvment and so I will not be skimping on MF in the second round ;)
 

ffs

Diabloii.Net Member
Hit the 10 hour mark. Tracked runs and rune drops with Necro for the last 4 hours, with the following numbers:

Completed runs: 115
Average runes per run: 1.73
Average run time: 122s
Runes/min: 0.85
P5 cows/min: 208.08
P7 equivalent: 184.42
Cows/run: 423.09

Cows/min generally bounced heavily between 205 and 220 most of the time based on rune drops, with a below average stretch towards the 10h mark. Drop variance aside, major reason for good numbers I think is his extremely convenient map. Braindead circular teleport route with lots of density and no bulges or corners that need to be checked, no backtracking = faster runs = win. I didn't have such a map on Java/Sin yet, at least during a tournament, so not sure what's the takeaway here regarding build comparison. But yeah, Necro is not bad for cows – no news there.

Gameplay vid:

Not the smoothest batch, constantly Amp'ed plus a couple of screw-ups with casting sequence, but it gives a general idea of how runs and map look like. Overall survivability is not as big of an issue as I had feared in the long run, it became more routine once I got used to his more fragile nature and adjusted playstyle accordingly. Can definitely recommend the "middle way" route between Golem Mastery and Amplify Damage, at least with DWeb. PN damage is high enough that one PN cast is enough to allow for quick CE chains, so there's time to cast Amp several times per engagement. I do want the Insight IG and to keep him alive, so for me that build works well.
 

Luhkoh

Diabloii.Net Member
Nice stuff guys! I will try and make a video later today too to show how my runs look and get some advice and such. I would love to see a couple of runs with the mini map on (the corner mini map is less intrusive), especially on @ffs's map he likes so much. Its really tough for me to visualize the shape and the routing without that. And shew, you guys get closer in on the klng's fort than i do.

@art_vandelay that fissure druid looks pretty nice. I might have to add him to the rotation and try him out. Fissure and phoenix seem perfect for cows.
@ffs i guess that extra life per kill on dweb is super noticeable? Your life regen after a pack looks so much nicer than mine did when i was trying him out.

Keep up the good work!

EDIT: also idk if this is complaining or a question. I'm not getting anywhere near the total runes I was expecting. My p3 runtimes are ~2:40 and i'm 8.5 hours in. So if we assume 380 cows per lvl, that's expectation of 8.5*60/2.67 * (380/303.3) = 240 expected total runes. I'm right around 175. What gives? This implies I'm killing ~275 cows per run. Seems dire. I'll put up a vid tonight or tm and hopefully we can figure out if im terribly un-thorough, or just unlucky on total runes.
 
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ffs

Diabloii.Net Member
@Luhkoh here's the map:

0_necro-cow-map.gif

Blue = Cow King
Pink = locations where biggest groups can be herded
Yellow = sometimes I end here if I felt density until then was not stellar; it often has okay-sized group, but not sure it's worth going there.

LPK/MPK from DWeb is a big help for sure.
 

Babyhell

Diabloii.Net Member
15 hours in approx. Things are shaping well I guess, clearly not the most efficient runs, I tried p5 and p7 and it's a map issue, I am always between 5' and 6' based upon my gameplay feeling, a bit more including legs that I get on separate run sessions with the sorc.

Anyway playing on p7 must help a bit for rune drops, I don't take everything, but I feel the numbers are fine. Not taking things as seriously as I should due to the lack of Griffon, I don't see that set as a real contender - but hey, a Zod can do much afterall!
 

Luhkoh

Diabloii.Net Member
@ffs really nice graphics on the map thanks! That does seem a nice map! I did the first few hours with my assassin on one where i had a significant backtrack portion so was rerolling maps yesterday. Took a fair bit of time to get one with close leg and no "backtracking due to fort location". Was lucky enough to have a reasonable one on my sorc on first try.

EDIT: also just a random note, but I totally forgot about fhr on both my cow characters somehow. @art_vandelay asked me about it. It's definitely not a big deal on either one, but slapping a sc in on my sorc (to reach 60) and running treks plus a fhr large charm on my assassin (for the 27 bp) were a noticeable difference.
 
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squidder

Diabloii.Net Member
5 hours in. Getting a lot smoother. After a few hours I switched to a mouse rather than the touchpad - big difference!! :p

Thanks to ffs for the video which helped me man up and stand my pn necro nice and close to the cows, resulting in herding them tighter. Plenty of revives reduces risk.

My insight IG dies regularly, mostly when amped, despite 27 points in GM. Not sure what I'm doing wrong there. Drinking pots is fine anyway with death's web.

Found a druid elemental skiller with +25 to life.

Re-signing up 'cos my name got missed the first time, apologies.

Sign Up
Please state IF you are running 1.07.
-------------------------
WoRG (1.07)
Ghonn
D2DC
ffs
Hutton
Luhkoh
ESDv2
Kstil3227
maxicek
CaseyJones
Pb_pal
Arctodus
Babyhell
zemaj
Gripnoob
NanoMist
art_vandelay
TwentyMuleTeam
Xios
squidder
-------------------------
 

art_vandelay

Diabloii.Net Member
I never ran cows for this long before so I never really thought through the Leg portion of the run but here's a few things I noticed:
  • Since the red portal in the Stony Field takes a while to open before you can enter it is not a waste to lure Rakanishu's pack out with one tele before entering. I guess some characters can also kill him very quickly but e.g. Necro or Fissure Druid don't have that option.
  • S&E after picking up Wirt's leg only helps if you have next to 0 load times and completely messes up the run times in the run counter. (So only ffs does it because no S&E lag on mac and runcounter's broke there as well)
  • Keeping Tomes+Cube in Stash is totally viable and reduces the amount of visits to Akara drastically. Not necessarily a time save (maybe even costs a few seconds) but it makes running for a long time more comfortable and allows one to get into the 'groove' for like 10+ runs without worrying about supplies.
  • Opening the town portal takes a little while during which you can't use it. So it's faster to open the portal and then click Wirt's leg than to do it the other way around.
  • Technically 'Cannot be Frozen' is useful for any character that doesn't S&E after the leg or carries cube in inventory (except sorc who has telekinesis) to avoid running from Tristram TP to the stash while frozen. Realistically it shouldn't make a huge difference unless your run times are super short. Luckily Java doesn't face this problem!
I guess this is nothing new to the old cow runners but I still had to figure it out (after mostly reading Round 2 and 3 Threads of previous RFLs and neglecting Round 1)

Also another thing I found is that when Druid gets amped it's better to resummon Oak instead of keeping amped Oak. The amped Oak that still has BO is weaker than the non-amped one without BO. It sucks to lose Oak in times were you need it the most, and being amped is definitely one of those.
 

Babyhell

Diabloii.Net Member
Since lvl 90, XP is not so good anymore, but I may end the set around mid lvl.

Still no CK set piece yet... well i didn't want to make a second set, so it may be a failed goal. But as it is low TC parts, wouldn't it be more efficient to farm it in NM or even Normal for the lower pieces? I mean in the long term, when no HR is needed anymore.

For now, I still need no qualifiers, and I found some little things like bases, charms/skillers. Will try to make a non-qualifiers haulpic tonight if I can complete the set today :)
 

NanoMist

Diabloii.Net Member
Late start for me, just started running last night with Nova Sorc. Zon had a Baal map I wasn't quite ready to part with.
 

ffs

Diabloii.Net Member
About 5 hours left. Continued tracking Necro runs, numbers changed a little:

Runs tracked: 244
Run time avg: 126s
Runes found: 419
Runes per run: 1.72
Runes per min: 0.82
P5 cows/min: 199.93

Changes in comparison to previous numbers don't make a lot of sense sense (longer average run times would suggest more kills/runes per run on average instead of fewer), though I guess could just be the rune drop variance again. Or maybe I'm just getting sloppy. :D

As for his non-qualifiers so far, he completed the CK set and got a few skillers, otherwise nothing too crazy. The RJoF I got earlier will be hard to best anyway.
Screenshot 2020-03-15 at 16.52.55.pngScreenshot 2020-03-15 at 17.35.47.pngScreenshot 2020-03-16 at 11.31.33.pngScreenshot 2020-03-16 at 14.18.24.pngScreenshot 2020-03-17 at 12.00.06.pngScreenshot 2020-03-17 at 13.38.11.pngScreenshot 2020-03-17 at 13.38.27.pngScreenshot 2020-03-17 at 16.58.30.pngScreenshot 2020-03-17 at 18.04.05.pngScreenshot 2020-03-17 at 21.02.30.png
 

DiabloTwoinDC

Diabloii.Net Member
Results sent. First across the finish line? Don't worry, I've set the bar nice and low for everyone.. :p

A couple more nice finds to keep this from being a total bust:
Decent roll.
Screenshot1161.jpg
I knew these were gonna be juicy when I saw the red color. Too bad it doesn't include lite resist.
Screenshot1162.jpg
 

Gripphon

Diabloii.Net Member
I paused my running temporarily. First, I'm al ready at half and secondly I already found couple of Chams.
@ffs
Nice data. Can you try him on p7 to see is it better? It could be on such small map.
 
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ffs

Diabloii.Net Member
Chams are cute, but... last RFL I found a Zod, recent OBP tournament I found a Zod, and when playing Necro I basically find Zods all the time, so...

I tried P7 now for a little bit. Based on run times it's more or less equally efficient, but cluttering is really an issue (tbh even on P5 it sometimes is on his map). Same for keeping IG alive, I had to babysit him a lot. That's with 12 hard points in GM and all other remaining points in Amp; maybe with max GM it's better, but if anything I want to shift a little from GM to bigger Amp range. I'm running Ist'ed DWeb, not sure maybe facet makes P7 noticeably smoother. Anyway, overall too many things in favor of P5 so I'm sticking with that.
 

Kstil3227

Diabloii.Net Member
12 hours down....8 to go....found 2 more qualifiers since my last update at 5.5 hours. Hoping the last 8 bring at least 1 more qualifier. Found 3 eth grailers (Rattlecage, Todes. Flame, and Bloodletter), 3 skillers (Plain Light GC, Druid Summon +19 life, and Passive Zon +1 Max Dam) , 2 set War Hats. 65 life Waterwalks. Lastly I found 3 Ruby jewels (38, 36, and 35), no fervor or other mods at all :( :( but better than none I guess. Last update will come after the 8 hours are complete. Good luck and may Blessed RnG be with all.

Here's the Haul Pics.
Screenshot047.jpg
Screenshot051.jpg
 

art_vandelay

Diabloii.Net Member
Nice bragging everyone! My first set is guaranteed third place or better but I will keep running nonetheless :)

For the second set I'm starting with Blizzard and I'm two hours in now. It's going smooth with 2:19 average and very few dangerous situations (pretty accurate since it only includes one death and at most one S&E due to NDE). I wanted to start out with full damage outfit but I realized that Blizzard Sorc is too fragile for that so I replaced Ormus with 1.07 Arkaines pushing my life from 1,7k to nearly 2,5k and replaced Spirit switch with Phoenix. She is still a powerhouse and I don't regret making her safer at all.

105fcr/86fhr
Fathom '29% CRes jewel' (really)
1.07 Arkaine's 'PRuby'
Spirit
Griffon's 'Cham'
Mara's [email protected]
TO's Gloves
SoJ
Snowclash
fcr/89mana/[email protected]
Waterwalk 65 Life
5 x Skiller
5 FHR SC
4x4 free space

CtA/Phoenix switch

Merc (Defiance)
Insight GPA
Fortitude
Andariel's

That's nearly 2,5k life, decent resists and Chilling armor from Snowclash together with Defiance from merc. Arkaine's has like 1,5k def alone and with Defiance and Chilling Armor I have over 10k def. Due to my high life the chance to go into hit recovery from one regular cow (no aura, amp or crit) hitting me is 37,5% in roughly 5/6 of hits and 0% in roughly 1/6 of hits (rough numbers!) so I can get out of bad teleport situations safely.

There's not much to say about playstyle, it's Blizzard after all. Instead I will say some stuff about Telekinesis in Rogue Camp, Cow AI and Attacks as well as Hit Recovery:

First off when Sorc gets the leg and TPs home there is a sweet spot to TK the stash from. It's right below the campfire and if you TK stash from here and cube the leg and then exit the cube she will NOT run towards stash and hence you can click on the red portal in peace. I'm currently trying to get this every run but it requires precision and I'm tired. I will try to capture it on video in the next days.

***

Secondly Cow AI is known and it explains what attacks they use. A cow has two attacks, A1 and A2 with A1 doing more damage. Here is their AI:
  • If a Cow is out of Melee Range it has 99% chance to approach you.
  • If a Cow is within Melee Range it has 99% chance to attack you.
  • If a Cow chose to attack you it has 33% chance to use A2 instead of A1.
This is info gained from Nefarius' AI compendium, a great read if you haven't done so already. ;)

***

Thirdly to get FHR relation to life for Cows (regular, no aura, no attack bonuses, no crit) one needs to look at how much damage a regular Cow does. Their attacks A1 and A2 have the following base damage and AR according to basin wiki:
  • A1: 120-167 Damage with 4232 AR
  • A2: 111-158 Damage with 4232 AR
and at p5 this gets a 4*6,25%=25% bonus:
  • A1: 150-209 Damage with 5290 AR
  • A2: 139-198 Damage with 5290 AR
I will assume worst case of 209 damage hit for FHR calculations but from the AI consideration we know that in 33% of cases it's 'only' at most 198 damage. Using the FHR resource I linked earlier to ffs I get the following:
  • In order for the chance to go into Hit Recovery to be at most 37,5% the max life of the character must be at least 1672. If it is lower there is the possibility of getting into the 75% chance for Hit Recovery case.
  • In order for the character to never go into Hit Recovery the max life of the character must be at least 3344.
Both of these are without any % Damage Reduced or Integer Reduce on equipment. If you want to never go into hit recovery from regular cows you can either reach the (very high) amount of 3344 life or you can socket Sol, Ber or wear Shako (or other % DR/PDR gear). If you only have PDR gear but not %DR then any point of PDR will reduce the above 3344 by 16 points (so Sol reduces it by 112) whereas if you only have % DR then every 1% of DR will reduce the above 3344 by 33,6 points (so Shako reduces it by 336 life whereas each Ber reduces it by 272 life).

For comparison a PRuby (+38 Life) with 74% BO only increases life by 66. So the order of socketing is PRuby, then Sol and then Ber for the rich man who doesn't want to die from bad teleports at all costs. (with Sol probably better if one were to factor Amp in)

Finally it's not necessary to reach this value above exactly (or the reduced version). Each damage reduction/life increase also increases the chance that an attack will result in the game chosing the 0% chance for FHR path instead of the 37,5% one. (because damage roll on cow attacks is random and we assumed the very worst case)
 

MrBlonde

Diabloii.Net Member
Little late but just noticed this thread, lucky or unlucky with the virus around have some more down time.

This is a perfect incentive, I'm in need of a ber/sur for infinity/pride and this seems like a great incentive to hunker down and hope for the moo moo farm lottery.

Not 1.07 btw and prob run this on a brain dead blizz sorc
 

Luhkoh

Diabloii.Net Member
also idk if this is complaining or a question. I'm not getting anywhere near the total runes I was expecting. My p3 runtimes are ~2:40 and i'm 8.5 hours in. So if we assume 380 cows per lvl, that's expectation of 8.5*60/2.67 * (380/303.3) = 240 expected total runes. I'm right around 175. What gives? This implies I'm killing ~275 cows per run. Seems dire. I'll put up a vid tonight or tm and hopefully we can figure out if im terribly un-thorough, or just unlucky on total runes.
Well here are the videos:

Trapsin

Nova Sorc

The trapsin I was a bit more sloppy than usual since I was just coming off of playing the nova sorc for a while before the video. But not a very big difference. Definitely feel like I have to be killing more than 275 cows per run. Of course I'm accepting general advice as well. @art_vandelay you're getting 2:19 runtimes on a p5 blizz sorc? That seems really really good.

Also not sure whats up with the messed up right border or phantom mouse pointer on my video. Apparently I need OBS advice too :p.
 

Gripphon

Diabloii.Net Member
@ffs
How about p3? According to my data and runtimes, it is equally efficient as p5 too while being much easier to play.

@Luhkoh
Apart from runes, you could also count all jewels/small charms you collect to have even more data for more precise numbers. Both jewels and small charms drop at the same odds (as do grand charms actually too), so having more items is better and would eliminate luck factor in a better way.
 
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