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2019 Spring RFL Sign-up and Running Thread: Grande Finale

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by Grape, May 4, 2019.

  1. art_vandelay

    art_vandelay IncGamers Member

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    Spite is what keeps me going at this point!


    Since I can remember I have played my Java under the guidance of one of the best guides ever written. I would like to share this guide with you, however it is written wholly in german and the vocabulary and rhetoric used would put Google Translate to shame should it ever attempt to transcribe this masterpiece into the english language.

    Of course that didn't stop me from attempting this herculean task and I think I did it justice:

    Throw.

    :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

    Well, that didn't fly in the Arcane Sanctuary:



    These are twelve Arcane Sanctuary runs with my Java. Why twelve you ask? Because that's the number of consecutive runs I can do before both my Titan's run out. (And of course to make the recording hit that sweet 13:37 length ;))

    Here are some random insights I got from running her for over six hours now:
    • Frames per Cast on Switch are 14 with action frame 9 and on main I need 17 frames to cast with action frame 12. For comparison my entire throwing animation takes 11 frames and I'm guessing the action frame is earlier than the 9th frame. My conclusion from this and from my gameplay is that odds of surviving a teleport into a monster pack are higher if I throw instead of trying to teleport out. My session today started with two deaths simply because of this and even throwing can't prevent a death sometimes.
    • I throw too much or Titan's just doesn't regenerate enough, anyway the aforementioned 12 runs are about the limit right now in terms of consecutive runs. (note the jav switch at 11:13 in the video)
    • I basically pick up nothing at this point, it's all about qualifiers and stand out items. I guess this could change if the runs were smoother.
    • Elaborating on the 'smooth' part: The switching between teleport and throw is still new to me and while sometimes it goes seamlessly I also have a lot of incidents where I whack ghosts with my CtA and get manaburned in turn. I chalk this up to missing routine with a switch and I hope it gets better with time.
    • I get cursed a lot and in turn I always touch one of the shrines on the way to lower my chances of telporting into an instakill. Not really a bad deal if it's a resist or skill shrine.
    • My mana household is absolute garbage and accordingly my runs end with touching the mana well that spawns most of the time at the very end of the route. I'm convinced that a bugged MPK ring is the very best way to combat this. Either that or get two godly fcr/dual leech rings like ffs, more unlikely though :D
    • Teleporting next to ghosts should be avoided at all costs. Getting manaburned sucks big time and puts yet another strain on my mana household.
    • I have lightnig spires on my map which isn't too big of a deal since I have decent resists. Nevertheless I had to socket a Ral into my shako to combat the Ghoul Lord fire spells which can actually do quite a bit of damage.

    To finish this I'll share my gear:
    Shako 'Ral'
    Enigma
    2/10/[email protected] Craft Amu
    3/20 Gloves
    Raven Frost
    Razortail
    10fcr, 4ML, ** Mana ring
    Silkweaves

    Main:
    Titan's
    -10/+11 Facet Shield with 15% IAS/25% CR

    Switch:
    CtA Military Pick
    Spirit 35

    Merc:
    Infinity
    Fortitude
    Andariel's 'Ral'

    and this post wouldn't be complete without one of the things I did pick up:
    Code:
    Matriarchal Bow
    Two Hand Damage: 20 - 47
    Durability: 32 of 48
    Required Level: 39
    Required Strength: 87
    Required Dexterity: 187
    Fingerprint: 0xddf46
    Item Level: 82
    Version: Expansion 1.10+
    +3 to Bow and Crossbow Skills (Amazon Only)
    4 Sockets (0 used)
     
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  2. T72on1

    T72on1 IncGamers Member

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    This is the setup I'm currently running with, which might solve some of your issues. It's basically the poor man's version of @ffs' Javazon, so props to him for the idea.

    Code:
    Shako 'Ist'
    Enigma
    2/5/something Craft Amu
    Trang's gloves
    Raven Frost
    Razortail
    10fcr, dual res ring
    Silkweaves
    
    Main:
    Titan's
    35% fcr Sprit
    
    Switch:
    CtA Crystal Sword
    Spirit
    
    Merc:
    Infinity
    Fortitude
    Andariel's 'ias/fir res jewel'

    Two advantages in this setup:

    1. you don't have to switch between weapons to teleport, since you reach the 68% fcr breakpoint on main.
    2. you have 55% fhr, so hit the 6 frame hit recovery breakpoint; quite important, because you will teleport into monsters on occasion
    Ghosts die easily enough, so I don't miss the 3 socket HHG with facets I usually use on my Javazon.

    Overall my runs weren't faster than yours, even slower, but that tells a lot about the driver. I'm quite certain such a change would make your runs much smoother.

    Because of mana issues (I didn't think about mana leech and only relied on Silkweaves), I also tried a setup with Arachnid's instead of Razortail and then a 33 MPK ring instead of the rare fcr ring. Definitely worked better for the mana, and I didn't notice any huge drops in damage because of the drop in piercing.
     
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  3. art_vandelay

    art_vandelay IncGamers Member

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    @T72on1 Thanks for the suggestion! I tested Spirit instead of Facet Shield and everything dies in about the same time as before and I don't have to switch anymore, so that's a positive change :)

    It definitely feels smoother and the 40 runs I did so far were a lot less chaotic overall. I just land somewhere and immediately start throwing. Before this change the ghosts had a second to manaburn me but now they either get it on first try or they die.

    The run times seem lower but I wouldn't expect too much on that front because this new 'smoothness' leads me to attack smaller ghost packs (2 or 3) as well isntead of just throwing when there are lots of monsters.

    I also found a qualifier a few runs after the changes which is in fact the second today and even got me points :p Whoever is immediately behind me in the ranks can blame T72on1 :D

    ***

    I won't be switching Razor out anytime soon though, just feels wrong... :confused:

    Ideal setup for me would probably be something along these lines:

    Griffon's 'Cham'
    Spirit
    Dual fcr rings (ideally with MPK...)
    2/19 amulet

    That would allow 99% fcr on main while keeping Razortail and 3/20 gloves (for IAS BP)

    ***

    I'm going to try TO's next but I don't know if I'll enjoy slower throwing.
     
  4. ffs

    ffs IncGamers Member

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    You can also max Pierce and then use Arachnid Mesh, it works well in AS. Advantage is you can go with 3/20 or 2/20 gloves. These are quite important for damage output and personally I wouldn't want to drop them for FCR gloves. (I'd aim for 35 IAS as well, but it's not strictly required.) To substitute Griffon's, an alternative to Shako is a suitable 20 FCR circlet if available, doesn't need to have +2 skills either. They can help a lot in comfortably reaching 68 FCR at least, plus they can have leech as well. In general I found leech still helps in AS even though you can't leech off the ghosts. I don't time travel so I don't use 1.07 rings, but Silkweave + leech does the job well enough. FCR + dual leech rings are rare indeed, but the LL is not required either, FCR + ML is just fine.

    I'm about 3 hours in with untwinked 99er Paladin in CS. So far I only compared 2 seal runs to Vizier only runs. Two seal runs provide ~8% higher XP and more boss kills, while Vizier is better for RFL purposes due to more Storm Caster kills of course... Still I think for now I'll stick to two seals + random bosses for now, given I'm still looking for several S&U drops. In case of a terrible set I might get back to AS Java after all. :)

    EDIT:
    I ran with that for a bit and it's good. Only issue is you don't hit 35 IAS which does make a difference, albeit not a big one. But that's why I went with the respec to max Pierce and swap in Arach.
     
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  5. T72on1

    T72on1 IncGamers Member

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    I never understood what's so important about Javazons and ias. The key for a good Javazon is that they herd their enemies and then kill them in one or two hits. Gaining a frame or even two for those one or two throws once in a while just doesn't seem worth it to me.

    Don't get me wrong, I'd include it in an ideal setup probably. But due to the lack of a few items, I feel it's more important to get that fcr and fhr right than the ias. At least it hasn't ever bothered me. And I have tried setups with 20% and 35% ias.
     
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  6. art_vandelay

    art_vandelay IncGamers Member

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    I'm testing the fcr gloves atm and the difference in damage and throwing speed is definitely there. Of course large groups still die immediately but two ghosts can take up to three throws until they're finished.
    On the other hand I really like the teleport speed on this setup...

    I only have one respec on her right now so I might have to wait on the Arachnid Mesh variant. That being said I definitely want to try a second set and I'm only like three and a half hours away from finishing this one. I might do some stuff with the Pit Singer to try and get a Griffon's but the chances of farming it in time for a second set are slim at best. In any case I might farm some essences from Diablo.

    @ffs I guess you can't have everything at once. 20% IAS and 99% fcr with Griffon's should make for a very strong setup though. Missing IAS hurts more if you have to throw more so the need for that decreases with better gear.

    Also I feel very stupid right now as it just dawned on me that my Titan's aren't upgraded which explains why leeching didn't work for me :D

    @T72on1 I don't have a lot of time to herd in AS. I only do that when there's ghosts over the abyss and I want them to come back to solid ground. In cows it doesn't matter at all though, might as well take a second to throw.
     
  7. ffs

    ffs IncGamers Member

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    That's the thing, AS is not an area where you herd a lot. It's way more switching between throwing and teleporting than cows for example. That's why I'd prioritize both IAS and FCR, and why teleporting on javelin switch is appealing. I agree focusing on IAS is not required for Java, but with 20 IAS from gloves and a headpiece socket for 15 more, I'd say it's always worth trying to go for 35 IAS.

    As I said I tried it and it works well, I'm just saying those setups were a little slower than 35 IAS ones.
     
  8. pharphis

    pharphis IncGamers Site Pal

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    39% chance to have 8 fails in a row. So slightly unlikely?
     
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  9. Gripphon

    Gripphon IncGamers Member

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    Have you guys tried to use Insight on javazon AS merc?

    @pharphis
    Depends. Not getting any heads from two coin tosses is less likely event in comparison, yet it feels perfectly normal. Unless one plays pokemon TCG where you need one head from two coin tosses to confuse the opponent. Then it's fcking unlucky not to get it :D

    EDIT
    Got an idea. 45 s javazon running incoming!
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2019
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  10. sir_cyclops

    sir_cyclops IncGamers Member

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    Metalgrid insight iron golem on zon?
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2019
  11. Gripphon

    Gripphon IncGamers Member

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    I'd need to do some practice with java since amount of kills above abyss is too huge for my taste, I'm used to fireball sorc who can control her damage output better, java will have ghosts die in the wrong places... but that can be reduced and playing improved. Perhaps adding middle corridor might be worth it as well. My strategy was to go rambo kill on ghosts and, unlike sorc, I think it is beneficial with java to actually leave lonely ghosts behind and move forward. Sorc can snipe them better while java is fine with more leftovers since she can focus down bigger groups instantly.

    I'll throw the javelin idea here and let you guys test whether or not it has potential. Prepare 3-4 javelin backup weapons since this one will get out of firepower more quickly. I don't know can she outperform Infinity variation or not though. I have no idea how efficient this running really is in comparison since I didn't do analysis nor try Infinity variation at all. Leaving that to whoever wants to test. Gear at the end of the video.

    99 fcr
    max attack speed
    87 FHR
    Power level: over 9000

     
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  12. art_vandelay

    art_vandelay IncGamers Member

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    Anyone know that feeling when lightning strikes twice? :p:D

    ***

    Nice idea with the faith merc! Those runs seem to be sub 50s at first glance, what is the avg time?

    The biggest drawback will be the constant weapon switching with this setup, how many runs does one Titan's last?
     
  13. ffs

    ffs IncGamers Member

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    @Gripphon Nice! Java setup is almost the same as the one I fooled around with a few weeks ago, and back then I even tried without any Merc weapon at all... While I realized both Infinity and Insight aren't strictly required, I didn't think of Faith Merc – very cool idea.

    I had ~55 second runs with my go-to setup, though it could be down to clearing more non-ghosts and hitting the middle corridor. Positioning in the center of the corners can also cost a second here and there (so that ghosts don't go to voids – but it occasionally happened in my runs as well...). In any event, I'll give this a try after my CS set!
     
  14. Gripphon

    Gripphon IncGamers Member

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    @art_vandelay
    Javelins need to be replaced every 5 runs approximately. But only if player combined Fury with Strike, otherwise it would be every 4 runs. Average is around 47-48 seconds this way.

    @ffs
    Gogogo! I think it's actually worth it to lose few seconds to actually nail bigger groups of ghosts. I see I killed some ghosts over the void while all I had to do is chill for 3 seconds for them to come closer. Or, better positioning immediately to reduce the time. I'm playing same way as with sorc and it's not ideal for java.
     
  15. art_vandelay

    art_vandelay IncGamers Member

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    First set finished! It only took 6 days and close to 2 hours.

    For my next set I'll target an as of yet unexplored target for RFL with very good chances for Lo Runes :eek:
     
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  16. pharphis

    pharphis IncGamers Site Pal

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    I've barely been playing. I've gained 2-3 ticks on my exp bar (lvl 95, p1 AT runs)
     
  17. T72on1

    T72on1 IncGamers Member

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    @Gripphon Very cool idea. Not likely one I'll explore, since I don't have the necessary gear, but very nice that yet another option gets tried out.

    I always check the middle path too. Doesn't cost much time, and often spawns ghosts. Worth it in my opinion. Same for the dead end with the chests. In that case I do one teleport in, which is enough to see if there is any ghosts.

    I don't find it too hard to keep ghosts from dying over the void. But yes, sometimes it means holding your fire for a second or two.

    @art_vandelay That's definitely fast to finish a set !!! Looking forward to hear what you have in store for the second set.

    I should have time to play some 2 hours this afternoon, bringing my total to 2.5 hours. Woohoo !!! And then on Monday I should have some more time. Gogo me ... ;).
     
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  18. Chaostar

    Chaostar IncGamers Member

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    Hey there !
    I've 4 hours left in my first (and probably only) set.
    I don't play for the win, I tried to run The Arcane Sanctuary, but I hate this place, the fact wraith dying above void don't drop anything, etc.
    So most of the time, it's between Ancient tunnels and Chaos Sanctuary, no rush, taking my time, just for xp and drops... Very poor drops, but still I found a little something !

    PS : I guess I can't make a report in the untwinked lvl99 topic until the end of this act3, in order not to spoil my score (which will remain low, don't worry Cham and Zod droppers !)
     
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  19. Babyhell

    Babyhell IncGamers Member

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    13 hours mark passed last night. Those packs give good xp, not sure i'll get to 95 by the end of this set, but shouldn't be far at least.

    Dropwise, i'm still grailing, but with items of no use - should make a base/use external tracker without traded items to confirm real status.

    See you !
     
  20. art_vandelay

    art_vandelay IncGamers Member

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    ;)

    Screenshot003.jpg

    Looks very promising so far!
     

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