2019 Spring RFL Sign-up and Running Thread: Grande Finale

ffs

Diabloii.Net Member
@zemaj Well there hasn't been much discussion in general despite this being the most interesting round. It was different last year when you suggested AT running and that became a big thing. Seems now people are (understandably) somewhat exhausted after so much rune hunting these last weeks. I thought your approach was pretty cool and I'm sure so did others – just too lazy or burned out to comment. :D With different targets and aspects such as MF coming into play, I don't think at all that people measure their gameplay solely based on run times. I for one couldn't care less about them this round as I prioritized XP gain..
 

Gripphon

Diabloii.Net Member
What we need is some MFO-oriented tournaments like this is RFO oriented, maybe even with certain limitations to have bigger diversity of areas and builds. This round was very diverse, almost no one did same thing as someone else from what I see. It's just activity has dropped or focused elsewhere.

Maybe MF-oriented tourney with banning super popular builds like Pit berserker, Pit singer and AT sorc. Then we shall see what will people come up with. Maybe even focus MF every round only on certain area. WSK and CS for example never see any MF action. Just an idea. Or simply ban sorc and barb since they dominate MF world to make people use other classes for MF. After some pause of all this as far as I'm concerned.

And not to be mixed with MFO which shall take place during summer.
 

art_vandelay

Diabloii.Net Member
That sounds like a good idea. It seems that in the past there were tournaments targeting different areas as well as RF and MF at the same time. (and of course there was @ffs 's Snipsnap tournament which was won by Albatross in the Ancient Tunnels :D)

One thing that could be interesting is to combine RF, MF and Superchests. For example RoF and Maggot Lair have superchests that are still largely unexplored. For MF people will want to stick to lower player settings, p1 to p5 at most, but those are the exact settings that haven't been explored thoroughly when it comes to superchests. Obviously there would have to be a rule about not prefacing each of your runs with LK chests :p

I already mentioned them above but RoF and Maggot Lair (lvl 3 or maybe even 1 and 2) seem like prime candidates. They are both level 85 areas with a SU that can drop quite high. Hephasto and Coldworm are both level ** and so their TCs should upgrade to the highest possible. Also they have the same quality factors as your usual Uniques/Champions.
Hephasto does 5 picks and has the following weights:
  • No Drop: 19
  • Act 5 (H) Equip A: 19
  • Good: 3
with a total drop weight (=all weights without No Drop) of 41. No drop at p3, p5 and p7 is 4, 1 and 0 respectively. He is Zod capable and at p1 his chance for a good drop is 5% which improves to 6,67% at p3.

***

Coldworm drops like an SU and hence is basically a double boss such as in the pits.

The RoF has two superchests max which have been thoroughly documented for p5 and p7 but are otherwise a mystery. The maggot lair has potential to spawn super chests in dead ends (usually 2 chests). However as @Fruit has told me these chests have a 51% chance of being super chests and are otherwise not super at all :D Still, 1 chest per dead end could be interesting nevertheless if they have a decent amount of Vex-Lo patterns.

***

As a special treat the RoF has a chance to spawn Wraiths which as we all know are nice for RF (even if not at p7) whereas the Maggot Lair has a chance to spawn Swarms which are like the opposite of Wraiths. Just take a look at their ridiculous TC:
Code:
Treasure Class  | Picks  | Unique Set Rare Magic | NoDrop  | Item1 Prob1  | Item2 Prob2  | Item3 Prob3       | Item4 Prob4 
Swarm 2 (H)     | 1      |                       | 125     | Potion 12    | Misc 6       | Act 3 (H) Good 1  | Magic 6
At p1 that's a 1 in 150 chance for a drop from the good TC :D

***

Both areas can be quite big but not as prohibitively large as the mausoleum or the second levels of the Swampy Pit/Flayer Dungeon.

The biggest drawback of the RoF is the large spread of resistances whereas fire, cold and magic damage characters can run the Maggot Lair. In fact most monsters there have no resistances at all except for some physical resists, LI beetles and the odd Poison Immunity. (And you all wanted to use PNova necro down there, didn't you? ;))

Also I can't back this up with any proof but in my experience Swarms and Maggots do next to no damage at all, the most dangerous thing down there should be the Beetles with their high physical damage. Swarms apparently have a base life of 1854 which is quite little (for comparison: lowest HP monster in AT is Horror Mage with 4172 HP) and as we all know they tend to melt to any sort of elemental attack.

***

Some builds that could run the Maggot Lair are Fire Sorc, Bone Necro, Trapsin and maybe Java. I mention Necro and Trapsin specifically because CE works through walls which I'm sure is something we have all used at some point in our lives in order to get through that hellhole.

Since RoF is so varied in resistances I guess that leaves only few builds such as Poison Necro, Java, Assassin or probably best the Hammerdin.

***

Just my thoughts on the matter, maybe we'll see a bug squishing contest this year! Or something completely different: Drifter Cavern, Thresh Socket, Red Portals in Act 5, Tal's Rasha's Tombs, Halls of Pain/Anguish or an all out FoH MF tournament in the Tunnels o_O


How hard is it to host a tournament, btw? :D
 

ffs

Diabloii.Net Member
There was also @Gripphon's WSK tournament, and based on that we had this MF/RF warm-up tournament before last year's MFO. I liked this type of tournament a lot, because aspects like a balanced and strong character, maps and playstyle are all important. Most importantly, numerous builds are suited for the task: Any type of Necro or Sorc, Java, Hammerdin, Trapper, even Druids could do well... People also ran different areas (Pit, CS, WSK...). If there is any interest, I'd be happy to host something like that again some time soon.

But the idea of an MF tournament where only less popular areas or buids are allowed is interesting as well.
 

T72on1

Diabloii.Net Member
12 hours done, results sent yesterday.

I'd definitely dig another mf/rf tournament. Or a RFL type MFO. We should brainstorm on that.
 

art_vandelay

Diabloii.Net Member
@ffs I'd certainly be interested! Where do you land on the topic of superchests in an RF+MF type tournament? (Of course as a part of a whole, not just chest popping)

@helvete According to superuniques.txt Coldworm drops from 'Act 2 (H) Super B' and Hephasto from 'Haphesto (H)' which contain 'Act 2 (H) Equip B' and 'Act 5 (H) Equip A' respectively. Both monsters are of Level arealevel+3=** and so their Equip TCs should upgrade to the highest possible (i.e. to 'Act 5 (H) Equip C' which is level 85) if I'm not mistaken?

Come to think of it I don't know wether TCs upgrade at each step, i.e. for a Champ do you have an upgrade from 'Champ A' to 'Champ B' and then once that is done possibly an upgrade from 'Citem B' to 'Citem C' ? (just an example...)
 

helvete

Diabloii.Net Member
According to ATMA drop calc, both of them can drop TC84, but not TC87. 1.11 calc, but nothing changed in later patches, except rune odds.
 

Babyhell

Diabloii.Net Member
All those ideas guys...D2 SP can open so many doors !

On my side, this tournament I guess burnt me down a bit - decided to go the hard way, so I did.

Two sets each round is somehow a lot, and I guess CS runs were the ones which gave me the more fun, due to grailers and variation - even if beefing is quite an experience to live ;) It's been a huge investment that indeed paid off (leveling time + training time + 120 hours of pure running, 90+ new javazon, 90+ new barb, lvl 96 hit with historical hammerdin, set apart the huge rune drops - never got that many for ever before!), but I feel I have to go the low way for a bit: 99ers/untwinked road shall be my room for some time - even if I may consider completing hell untwinked as the main goal, or new characters like druids/completing my necro twins - updates will be made on the Murios project @DiabloTwoinDC ;)

No regret, much fun and huge high level progress, nice item dropping, but now it's time to...breathe a bit!

Thanks again @Grape for hosting, can't wait for the results, and reading your posts guys !

HF!
 

art_vandelay

Diabloii.Net Member
@Gripphon So give me the eth Rune Master already so I can host a tournament :rolleyes:

@helvete I checked it with the 1.13 ATMA drop calc and the german drop calc. The 1.13 ATMA confirms what you said about both sources and the german calc agrees on Hephasto but claims that Coldworm is TC69. That being said we always knew that that calculator doesn't take TC upgrades into consideration.

I went through the TC tree again under the assumption that only the first TC a monster calls upon drop is getting an upgrade and everything after that just does what the TC before it tells it to.

Coldworm is assigned the TC 'Act 2 (H) Super B' which is in Group 18 with level 69. Coldworm has a higher level so it upgrades until 'Act 4 (H) Super C' which has level 87 (the one after it has level 90). In this TC we find the sub-TC 'Act 4 (H) Uitem B' of level 80 which (assuming it isn't upgraded within Group 14) has a chance to drop from 'Act 4 (H) Equip B' which in turn contains stuff up to TC78.

Which is it now: 69, 78 or 84? :confused:

I'm confused, paging @Luhkoh :D

EDIT: The basin wiki says 78 as well.

EDIT2: So I checked 'De Seis' in Atma and it claims he drops TC84 and we know that is wrong. He drops from 'Act 4 (H) Super C' just like Coldworm after her TC upgrade. So I suspect that all the monsters in the basin wiki link above are TC78 and that's that. Nice going Blizzard :rolleyes:
 
Last edited:

NanoMist

Diabloii.Net Member
Been a bit busy lately- I almost forgot to submit my scores yesterday. I knew I didn't have time to finish a 2nd set, but I ended up running 8 hours of CS Hammerdin for fun. Using the charms and jewels count, he is about equivalent to my Blizz Sorc at 155 KPM.

If I recall correctly, there was a decent amount of round 3 discussion in the round 2 running thread if anyone wasn't around for that.
 

maxicek

Moderator Single Player
@zemaj What did you run? I totally missed it whilst wallowing in the disappointment of my OP builds completely rubbish round.
 

Luhkoh

Diabloii.Net Member
@art_vandelay too lazy to really dig in, but i believe you're correct. All drop calcs I know of do not think superuniques upgrade tc's, which is incorrect, but I'm pretty sure the only upgrade is for the tc it drops from, not every step down the tree. I looked at coldworm and agree it should be act 4 h super c which is like the chaos seal bosses so tc78. I'm not sure why atma would claim tc 84. That doesn't make sense to me from any way I've thought about it.

Ah yeah just read your edit. That does make sense. Maybe its some kind of holdover, but I dont think any superuniques before act 5 can drop higher than tc78, as I dont think there are any with a mlvl of 90.
 

CaseyJones

Diabloii.Net Member
Looking forward to the results thread and all those haul pics. Then at least I will know what could have been possible with a fully decked out java

Satisfied with my runs and progress made during the round though.
 

ffs

Diabloii.Net Member
@PhineasB Tell me about it! Rune drops since finishing my second and final RFL set (though that was another ~20h):
2x Jah
1x Ber
2x Sur
1x Lo
2x Ohm
1x Vex
2x Gul
1x Ist
5-10x Pul-Mal range

As for the tournament discussion, I think I'm in favor of some choice of areas, like we had for the MF/RF tournament pre-MFO last year. Some people ran WSK for that as well so that's definitely possible. In fact NanoMist ran WSK and (of course) won the whole thing. Can't claim to be entirely objective though, given I'm focused on 99er Paladin at the moment and I'd prefer to run Nihl or CS with him. :p

If people are interested in something along the lines of last year's MF/RF tourney, as I said I'd be happy to host it again, and open to any suggestions re changes. Otherwise if people prefer a pure MF tourney along the lines of some of Grip's ideas, of course I'd participate as well as long as it's compatible with 99er running. Well let's be honest, probably even if it isn't, but that's my hope at least. :D
 

art_vandelay

Diabloii.Net Member
@art_vandelay too lazy to really dig in, but i believe you're correct. All drop calcs I know of do not think superuniques upgrade tc's, which is incorrect, but I'm pretty sure the only upgrade is for the tc it drops from, not every step down the tree. I looked at coldworm and agree it should be act 4 h super c which is like the chaos seal bosses so tc78. I'm not sure why atma would claim tc 84. That doesn't make sense to me from any way I've thought about it.

Ah yeah just read your edit. That does make sense. Maybe its some kind of holdover, but I dont think any superuniques before act 5 can drop higher than tc78, as I dont think there are any with a mlvl of 90.
Just made a spreadsheet with all of them, just to be 100% sure :D

Excluding act bosses the only SU in Act 1-4 that can drop above TC78 is Hephasto, he drops from TC84. Here's a list of the TC78 contenders divided into low and high chance.

Corpsefire
Creeping Feature
Fire Eye
Ancient Kaa the Soulless
Sszark the Burning
Stormtree
All 6 Councilmembers in act 3
Bonebreaker
Bloodwitch the Wild
Coldworm the Burrower
Fangskin
Witch Doctor Endugu
Battlemaid Sarina
Icehawk Riftwing
Izual
Infector of Souls
Lord de Seis
Grand Vizier of Chaos
Frozenstein
Snapchip Shatter

Everything else in Acts 1-4 except for Hephasto is lower than that. All the higher ones are in Act 5, minus the two 'bugged' ones of course.

If I got this right then Blizzard introduced the arealevel 85 stuff in order to offer an incentive for people to run stuff besides Act Bosses and Pindle. That's why a fallen in the pits drops the same items as Baal (and with a high 87 instead of a low 87 in fact...). Yet they must have forgotten to fix the levels in the SU rows because it is impossible to upgrade past 'Act 4 (H) Super' which is the high 78 from above. But at least the 'regular' SUs (2 Items, 2 Potions drop) have that chance, all the other SUs have their own preset TC which can't receive upgrades at all which means that for example Blood Raven is forever stuck dropping from a low 66 compared to Corpsefire who's a low 78 due to upgrades.

Definitely a design flaw in my eyes, similar to how the wave bosses drop like champions. (They even used a newly made councilmember type which doesn't have the good drop odds of its act 3 counterparts :confused:)

I'm definitely not just distracting myself while waiting for the results thread :D
 
Top