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2019 Spring RFL Sign-up and Running Thread: 2nd Round

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by Grape, Apr 6, 2019.

  1. PhineasB

    PhineasB IncGamers Member

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    Really interesting stuff on the 200 FCR sorcs @Gripphon and @ffs

    I'm running with untwinked WW barb without Enigma so no major contributions to theory or knowledge :) But he's at the 9 hour mark, after being away for most of the first week and then focusing on 99er necro to 98 for part of the past weekend. I still think he may finish the set after all, with some solid chunks of time this weekend. But he also may come up a couple hours short, depending on work schedule next week with the potential for a couple long days.

    But progress has been solid so far, with ~ 1 minute run average factoring in merc deaths, which are more often than ideal :rolleyes: The lack of easy repositioning with teleport to get him away from PI spawns with might/fanatacism around are definitely a limitation. But he picked up a Kira's ([email protected] to boot) early on:
    Trav (Kiras).jpg
    This beat out other options, I guess largely due to keeping him alive for most runs when convicted vs. dying almost immediately. Merc resurrections were less frequent after equipping it anyhow, with GBane the best armor option in his limited stash. And he found his second of these:
    Trav (RJoF).jpg
    Other finds that remained in his stash (for now at least) were:
    Code:
    Shimmering Small Charm of Storms
    Small Charm
    Required Level: 37
    Fingerprint: 0xa435ee5d
    Item Level: 85
    Version: Expansion 1.10+
    Adds 1 - 27 Lightning Damage
    All Resistances +4
    
    Shimmering Small Charm of Shock
    Small Charm
    Required Level: 25
    Fingerprint: 0x62b66bca
    Item Level: 85
    Version: Expansion 1.10+
    Adds 1 - 3 Lightning Damage
    All Resistances +3
    
    Ocher Small Charm of Balance
    Small Charm
    Required Level: 29
    Fingerprint: 0xec26d030
    Item Level: 85
    Version: Expansion 1.10+
    +5% Faster Hit Recovery
    Lightning Resist +7%
    
    Ruby Jewel of Virility
    Jewel
    Required Level: 58
    Fingerprint: 0xa1310
    Item Level: 85
    Version: Expansion 1.10+
    34% Enhanced Damage
    +9 to Strength
    Good luck to everyone else who's still running.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2019
  2. Babyhell

    Babyhell IncGamers Member

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    Less than 7 hours to go, should be done this week end with second set. Something happened last night I hadn't met for quite some time...nothing interesting out of two hours of Travi - but yes I check less horking uniques except for Bills - and an hour and a half of AT leveling on untwinked IpBanPrevales, getting closer to 89.

    Strange night !
     
  3. ffs

    ffs IncGamers Member

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    @art_vandelay Nice idea – cheesy AF but why not try. :D

    I tried this briefly, but unfortunately it doesn't seem to work. Two problems: (1) If you teleport too far away, BW vanishes even before the 24s duration elapses. It seems that distance is around where the middle corridor of the wings are, but sometimes it disappeared even at a smaller distance. This point could be somewhat solved by circling in shorter distance, but it already reduces the "herdable" amount of ghosts. (2) Indeed ghosts will fly towards the BW once their AI is "activated". However, they stop moving towards it if you're too far away from them. As if they "disengage" again after being activated. This one I couldn't solve.

    To be honest I'd be surprised if any build can challenge Javazon in AS. (Plus she can run it fast even with budget gear. Now I found she doesn't even need Infinity or Griffon's). But nothing is set in stone in D2, always worth it to test other approaches!
     
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  4. art_vandelay

    art_vandelay IncGamers Member

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    @ffs Yeah I think it won't work consistently with sorceress, even though sometimes it can:

    Screenshot010.jpg

    I teleported around after to see what was left and I barely found any ghosts. Sadly I couldn't replicate it!

    Another thing of note is that if it works you will be alone on that tiny platform with about 100 monsters which is a little dicey to say the least. Can't use CL or you might kill stuff over the void and Lightning has to be placed carefully as well.

    I think if this works it will be a Necro only thing because the repair costs on 13 charges of BP are like 450k :D Also I don't know if Attract is more consistent then BP/BW and doesn't despawn. I don't have a Necro at all right now so that will have to wait.

    Anyway I'll try some regular runs with the lightning sorceress for now. ;)
     
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  5. Gripphon

    Gripphon IncGamers Member

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    Fireball sorc averages ~225 creeps per minute there based on a 10 minutes of video analysis. But video analysis is hard to do, sometimes it's hard to count ghosts and creeps precisely so there is some margin for error. And those 10 minutes could have been above average in density from what I know. Also, this is with ridiculous gear. Without it I believe number is 180+ to aim for.
     
  6. Ghonn

    Ghonn IncGamers Member

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    May I ask why is AS a good place for round 3? Is there some monster type that is more likely to drop runes? Sorry if this was discussed earlier.
     
  7. Luhkoh

    Luhkoh IncGamers Member

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    Ghosts/wraiths have approx a 3x greater chance to drop a rune. This was always known as a nice advantage in chaos sanctuary, but wasn't till last year's rfl that some people here figured out the huge number of ghosts in arcane sanctuary give perhaps the best yield for a round 3 area (with the big caveat they can't drop zod). The ghost to regular monster rune drop ratio changes with playersetting as well, which I gave the numbers for HERE.
     
  8. T72on1

    T72on1 IncGamers Member

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    Yes, ghost type monsters counts as 3.59 monsters in term of rune drops.

    Some people theorycrafted about the possibilities of AS for last year's RFL area round, and luckily it worked out too. The main downside is that Zod can't drop there, but other than that you should have, by far, the highest drop odds for HRs.

    I ran the area myself last year after a couple of hours in CS and really liked it, even if I couldn't come close to the run times of the top runners. IIRC I got a Lo and Vex there in the end.

    Could you refresh my memory? Isn't the routine in AS to only run the straight wing all the way around, but not entirely back to the WP (because you already have been in that first part from the WP to where it branches)? S&E, start a new game, go back to Act 1 through the NPC (can't remember his name) and take the WP in Act 1 to AS.

    Btw, did you include the Summoner in your runs or not? I know I did last year, at least for the first part, then for the second part I didn't, and couldn't come to conclusive results which of the two was better.

    O yes, could you share your gear? I haven't got a Griffon's yet, which is a major disadvantage, so I'll have to get creative with my gear anyway :(.

    Funny you mention that, as I was thinking about the possibility of a Fire Sorc in that area. Could you share your gear, to see if I could explore that option as well?

    @ffs and @Gripphon What run times do you have on average for those runs?

    @Luhkoh To be precise, it wasn't so much that we didn't think about the big number of ghosts in AS vs CS, but more that everyone assumed it would be too tedious to not have them die over the voids. The result is the same of course: we (read: the clever theorycrafters among us) discovered something new ;).
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2019
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  9. Ghonn

    Ghonn IncGamers Member

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    Thanks a lot for clearing this up @Luhkoh and @T72on1

    It certainly explains why "finger mages" pop up regularly in these discussions. Tal Rasha's tombs also contain ghosts but I guess they're too sparse and random. They're are a nice change of pace every now and then nevertheless. I think I popped a Jah from there last time I played in b.net.
     
  10. Gripphon

    Gripphon IncGamers Member

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    Head: 3/20/2 5/-5 facets
    Body: Fireball Ormus with facet
    Weapon: 6os Military pick 30/-30 fire dmg/res
    2/15 amulet
    Phoenix Shield
    Arach
    Magefist
    10/36 mpk ring
    beta BKWB
    triple res boots focus on lite res

    9x fire skiller
    This one can 2 shot fire immunes giving more casualties

    However, any typical setup works as she can 1 shot ghosts, so some setup including regular items works fine as well, but she will kill less fire immunes obviously. Some random 3 os armor with -5 fire facets can improve killrate of her I think, especially used with Eschuta's with another facet and some hat with facet. Just to increase random casualties as she kills ghosts.
     
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  11. Luhkoh

    Luhkoh IncGamers Member

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    @T72on1 Fair enough. It's tough for me to sort out what was new to the community when it was all new to me :) Also idk if it answers your question adequately, but that runefinding sheet I made has the option to toggle on and off summoner if you want to see the effect of including him. I can't imagine it's worth it unless it barely adds any time at all especially since he only drops up to Lo, but I could ofc be wrong, and inputting the runtimes in the sheet should help. And if anyone wants to see the verrrrry approximate "predicted rfl score", where nano and I came up with a few approximations that I thought were close enough to perhaps be useful, I could add it back into the sheet. That could tell you even better how little time he would need to take to make it worth including him.

    Edit: @ffs this could potentially be a way to include the effect of hitting that pack outside the pit. Are you planning on messing with pits again this year? And if so is this approximation for an efficiency metric something you would like? @NanoMist and I tried a few approximation methods and compared them to the (much more reliable) simulations drmalawi did last year, and they all overestimated the predicted rfl score IIRC. But were close enough to perhaps be reasonable.
     
  12. ffs

    ffs IncGamers Member

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    Lot's of options. Here's my old post about AS Java setups and gameplay video from RFL 2018. Back then I had just done a major overhaul to my Javazon setup, using this gear:

    Griffon's 'Cham'
    2/20 amulet
    3/20 gloves
    HHG with 2x RBF and 1x IAS
    Enigma
    Titan's
    2x FCR + double leech rings
    Razor
    Silkweave

    CtA/35 Spirit

    Might Merc with Infinity, ebug Fortitude, Andy's with IAS/FR

    Build is all-out LF + synergies.

    Result is 99 FCR on CtA switch, and 35 IAS high damage from faceted shield on Titan's switch. CNBF is necessary and provided via Cham'ed Griffon's, since the use of 2x FCR rings means no Raven.

    For general purposes, this remains the best overall Java setup I've played (or seen, honestly – #patonmyback ;)). But when revisiting AS the other day I realized that such damage output was not necessary there. So this is the gear I plan to go with, assuming I do run AS in round 3:

    Griffon's with IAS/MPK jewel
    Enigma
    2/20 amulet
    3/20 gloves
    35 Spirit (main switch)
    Raven
    SoJ
    Titan's
    Arachnid Mesh
    Silkweave

    Switch: CtA/any Spirit

    Same Merc as above.

    Max Pierce, otherwise same build.

    In the Java setups post linked above, I noted the possibility of this, but didn't test it back then. The idea is that, as opposed to e.g. Cow running, in AS you switch super often between teleporting and throwing. So I figured it could be worth teleporting on main switch with 99 FCR (because switching weapons is a bit slower than switching skills). The difficulty is to include CNBF while staying at 99 FCR and 35 IAS, because shield must be Spirit and Griffon socket must be IAS for this. Best solution I found was to drop one LF synergy, max Pierce instead, and replace Razortail with Arach (providing the FCR required when not using 2x FCR rings). It works extremely well, initial runs were around ~55 seconds.

    As for budget, without Griffon's I think 99 FCR impossible to do in a sensible way, but otherwise the same thing can be done with standard 68 FCR instead. Couple of budget suggestions:

    Option 1 (Arach, Pierce skilled):
    Titan's
    Enigma
    35 Spirit
    3/20 or 2/20 IAS gloves
    2/20 FCR circlet (IAS + ideally MPK)
    +2/something amulet or HLW
    Raven
    SoJ
    Silkweave
    Arachnid Mesh

    This does not require very good FCR gear either. I like the HLW option for 55 IAS in this case to improve DPS a little.

    Option 2 (Full LF synergies + Razor + FCR gear):
    Titan's
    Enigma
    35 Spirit
    3/20 or 2/20 IAS gloves
    2/20 FCR circlet (IAS + ideally MPK)
    +2/FCR amulet*
    FCR/ML ring*

    Raven
    Silkweave
    Razortail

    * If you can get the 13 FCR required from the amulet it is enough to hit 68 FCR, then SoJ can be used instead of FCR ring.

    Insight Merc works fine, Infinity is only a small advantage.

    If a player doesn't have a suitable 20 FCR circlet, another possibility is to mix the above approaches and use Arach + FCR jewelry (maxing Pierce again) e.g. with Shako or something.

    You do go back almost all the way to the WP. Yes you can also go the Warriv -> A1 route, but again from what I've seen it is not faster.
    No, in fact I don't check the dead end whether or not the Summoner is there. Don't like the backtracking. Only thing I do is peak into the middle corridor (from bottom/right side to see drops better) and throw LF if ghosts are there.
     
  13. T72on1

    T72on1 IncGamers Member

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    Ok thanks for all the input. Seems I'll have some testing to do before round 3, both with Fire Sorc and Javazon.

    Initially the plan was to go full 20 hours with my Hammerdin in CS, but I keep getting attracted to AS. Maybe also because I haven't had any luck in CS in the previous tournaments I tried it on.

    Btw, when talking about the Summoner, I meant the dead end of a branch on the whole of course. Summoner himself alone isn't worth it.
     
  14. Luhkoh

    Luhkoh IncGamers Member

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    @T72on1 ah ok I gotcha, that makes more sense. Summoner himself does improve Lo down drops by like 10% which is more significant than I would have guessed, but I would guess still isn't enough to consider.
     
  15. helvete

    helvete IncGamers Member

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    Cursing in the church here, but... How well would ditching the whole enigma work for LF zon, with vigor on switch?

    Like super budget option - Insight merc, vigor switch, as much +skills as you can muster, then max pierce if arach is available, else use razor?

    Could this be the way to go for new/restarted players, or even untwink zons?
     
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  16. ffs

    ffs IncGamers Member

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    2 hours to go with Barb. The trend continues – fewer qualifiers but better non-qualifiers than Sorc.

    I should find the time tomorrow or Sunday to test things for round 3. Don't exactly feel like another Java set after R1, but at this point I expect AS to come out on top, so that's likely...

    Don't think I'll take her to the Pit again as she is better off running AS. What I will test more is Pit Nova Sorc. I recently built one precisely for P7 Pit running, and at the very least she is fast.

    I too had planned to go CS, meant to do more thorough clears with Hammerdin to also have chances at better S&Us. But even with Seal trick I tested it to be too far behind AS in RF efficiency. Regarding CS ghost/Vizier seal runs:
    Can you record a couple of runs? I just looked for @NanoMist's numbers in the 2018 thread as he ran ghosts in CS before switching to AS. Here he mentioned ~145 kills per minute with Blizzy (with a similar amount in 2017), and he knows what he's doing. So I'm curious if FB Sorc can really be 55% more efficient than a well played Blizzy.
     
  17. CaseyJones

    CaseyJones IncGamers Member

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    @helvete, I hope to find out. Working on an untwinked zon right now for round 3. If I get her to trav before round 2 is over might farm a little there with plague before respecing.

    I know that won't be efficient but she's the only char close right now :/
     
  18. T72on1

    T72on1 IncGamers Member

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    Any character without teleport will get stuck in the AS quite fast me thinks.
     
  19. NanoMist

    NanoMist IncGamers Member

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    I can believe FB Sorc being more efficient due to her 1-shot ability on small clusters. Ghosts in the AS also gather together nicely for FB.
    My CS Blizz Sorc did not have DFathom (I still don't have one, it's 1 of 2 remaining grailers), so she cannot reach a damage range that can reliably 1-shot regular Storm Casters. According to Onderduiker's monster stats Excel file, Storm Casters have an HP range of 4945-6800. Assuming CM takes a P7 enemy CR down to -100%, Blizz would need to do at least 13600 damage to always 1-shot. My Blizz Sorc needed a 2nd Blizz hit or Ice Blasts to finish, and all those extra hits add up to lost time. Blizzard hit mechanics is spotty, especially against walls, so sometimes that 2nd hit doesn't come fast enough. It's possible I could have been better off doing P5 where only 10200 damage is needed.


    Looks like Gripp is trying to test CS to limits I couldn't reach. I went max fire resist and didn't care about the rest. Remaining resists were at least positive I think, but I was using Hoto. I also used Enigma and possibly Dracs for LPK, poison didn't bother me much with that setup. I can't say how annoying poison can be without LPK though.
     
  20. T72on1

    T72on1 IncGamers Member

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    Pff, only 3 qualifiers in the last 3 hours, one single one in the last 4, on 23s avg runs :(. For the first time this and previous RFL, I'm now officially complaining (since we all know that helps ;)).

    A bit more than 5 hours to go. Should be done on Monday partially, rest on Thursday.
     

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