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2018 Spring RFL Sign-Up and Running Thread: Grande Finale

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by Grape, May 4, 2018.

  1. T72on1

    T72on1 IncGamers Member

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    I might spend the remaining 7 hours in AS. Only other good option is CS, but like I said, I'm getting tired of that one with my Blizz Sorc, and I (hopefully) will be doing plenty of it with my Hammerdin soon(ish).

    Only other good option I see for areas is Pit with Necro or Javazon. I couldn't get the hang of it with my Necro, and for Javazon ...

    ... I don't have Griffon's. Once I have that one, I plan to do a lot of tournaments like this and overall testing with Javazon, Lightning Sorc, Nova Sorc, ...

    I have a NW map layout, which might indeed be better for those two parts.

    Ok, nice. Thanks. Time to finally find that SoJ :cool:.

    One thing I forgot to mention is that @NanoMist was right (of course, what did you expect? ;)) when it comes to the other branches of AS: they aren't worth it, because there are too many gaps and other stuff which prevent good spawns and smooth running.

    Btw, if we are talking high density areas, would Flayer Jungle also maybe be a good area? It's packed to the brim with Flayers and Soul Killers, so ... Obviously not as good as AS and CS, but maybe comparable with Pits?
     
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  2. Brak

    Brak IncGamers Member

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    have you guys tried ending your run on the Summoner and using the Canyon WP to go to A4?
     
  3. T72on1

    T72on1 IncGamers Member

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    My map has Summoner at the end of the route, now that you mention it. But since I'm just doing a circular route, I'm ending near the AS waypoint, not the Summoner.

    I don't think the Summoner platform is often very crowded, so I'd better skip it alltogether I think, unlike what I said in my previous post.
     
  4. Brak

    Brak IncGamers Member

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    huh, in my experience the Summoner usually has a decent crowd on his platform. I would actually run a zig zag covering the center bridge and end at the Summoner. You would miss two corners, but make up for this by picking up packs in the middle (which are often quite large) and on the Summoner's platform. I've also tried running a figure 8 pattern. You double up on the middle platform, but you can just kill them and look for drops as you teleport past it (this is better suited for a Blizz sorc than Nova).

    Are you guys doing all four arms btw? One thing I've noticed is that in some configurations you can teleport between the arms without returning to the center platform. For me this works going between top left arm (switchback) and bottom left arm (portals), but I usually don't bother with these as I have noticed lost drops in space. I can't reroll my map so I'm not sure if this is due to the placement, configuration or both.
     
  5. T72on1

    T72on1 IncGamers Member

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    No, I only run one branch. Just like Nanomist and ffs. The others aren't nearly as good.
     
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  6. ffs

    ffs IncGamers Member

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    @T72on1 I'd put AS higher than CS for sure, it's really comparable to Cows. First couple of Javazon runs I tried resulted in the equivalent of ~143 cows per minute on P7, or ~157 cows per minute on P5. Compare this to Gripphon's P5 numbers in the runefinding guide:

    1. PN/Nova necro ~168
    2. Nova sorc ~153
    3. Blizzard sorc ~144
    4. Javazon ~142
    5. Trapper ~137
    6. Fireball sorc ~130
    7. Fissure druid ~126
    8. Hammerdin ~97

    This is only a rough guideline of course, and IMO Javazon blows all of these out if the water (managed ~165 on P7 myself using the same calculation method used for the above). But any bias I might have towards her is definitely matched by Gripp's towards P&B Necros. :p

    Whichever way you take it, AS is an incredibly efficient area. We are just starting to run it and maybe the best approach has not been tested yet. I wouldn't be surprised if someone manages to run it more efficiently than Cows to farm runes up to Cham. Definitely quite the discovery at this stage! :eek:
     
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  7. maxicek

    maxicek Moderator Single Player

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    But outside of RFL, surely you are better running the Council?
     
  8. ffs

    ffs IncGamers Member

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    @maxicek Generally yes, at least I'd go there when just trying to generally farm HRs and want some other stuff along the way. But could be different when only caring about runes, depending on run times.

    Taking a (very fast) 2m30s average for P5 cow runs as an example, Travincal will break even with that at around ~24.5 second runs average (or ~39s for hork Barb), based on Gripphon's numbers. Based on Arcane Sanctuary results so far it seems it will break even with those Cow and Travincal times when AS runs take around ~55 second average (P7). Probably in most cases people will be a little more efficient in Travincal, but it's not really a huge margin.

    That's for runes up to Cham and disregarding the fact that LK is best choice up to Ber (clearly) and even Jah (slightly) when mostly caring about runes only. For Zod, Cows are incredibly hard to beat, requires sub-18s Travincal running (including cubing) in the above example. AS can't be run fast enough to compete in this regard.
     
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  9. Shuffleblast

    Shuffleblast IncGamers Member

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    "So, I take it you're done with your 20 hours of fast paced CS running? Here's a random sur from a boss pack for your noob summoner druid."

    Screenshot002.jpg
     
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  10. NanoMist

    NanoMist IncGamers Member

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    When I mentioned Vizier, I'm also including the 11 minions, otherwise Vizier by itself isn't significant. I did teleport around the Plains during last year's testing, and I didn't get the impression it was any better than CS. Compared to this year, Arcane Sanctuary looked really good after the first play through.

    Flayer Jungle is another Cham capped area, but density could be comparable to Pits. The density does vary from game to game, sometimes it's packed, sometimes it's a little lacking.

    As for the Arcane, I should probably incorporate the middle corridor into my route, I do have a semi-stable boss pack in the center platform. As for going for ghosts only or big packs in general, that is dependent on the build, like @ffs said. Java kills everything in 1-2 shots, so I'd target all. Nova Sorc is weaker against the ghouls, so I've been targeting the ghosts and hell clans more. I'd say Java is the fastest build so far, and I'd make that bet even before ffs' great demonstration. I prefer Sorc's tempo of play, but I may try that 68 FCR Javazon in the future.
     
  11. Friiser

    Friiser IncGamers Member

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    I've added AS to my run pattern. I clear all 4 wings including the Summoner when I do it. It isn't very efficient, but the chore of raising an army every game gets tiring.
    Run Pattern:
    Pindleskin (raise my army)
    Shenk
    Eldritch & occasionally Eyeback the Unleashed
    Threshsocket
    Bonesaw Breaker
    WSK+Baal
    Hephasto
    Chaos Sanctuary+Diablo
    Duriel
    Arcane Sanctuary*
    Ancient Tunnels*
    Pits*

    * <-- sometimes these are bypassed if I run out of storage space
     
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  12. Brak

    Brak IncGamers Member

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    After a small bout of AS running, I wanted a short break before I had to stop playing
    First run in RoF I got a Ber from a Superchest
    I've hit that pattern 3 times now, but never the other Ber, Jah or Cham patterns on p7/8
     
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  13. drmalawi

    drmalawi IncGamers Member

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    Hmmm one more week remains, perhaps I should start a new batch? :p Very tempted to go Javazon in Arcane Sanctuary
     
  14. DaveW

    DaveW IncGamers Member

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    @ffs, gieb 4 sock eth thresher.

    Interesting discussion re AS. I actually ran it abit last year in RFL. I wanted to thrash it hard there but didn't have a char other than Lite sorc with merc holding Infinity. I didn't play it much (2 hours max) coz I didn't like chugging pots all the time.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2018
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  15. drmalawi

    drmalawi IncGamers Member

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    Ok, so 1h into my second batch, I got 12 jewels from AS. My jewles/hour count in CS was about 8. Assuming that jewel:rune ratio is theoretically the same in AS as in CS, this already tells me something about either i) how effective AS is compared to CS or ii) how much I suck at CS :p
     
  16. ffs

    ffs IncGamers Member

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    Tried a bunch of different setups for AS Javazon. Some information in spoilers for those interested:

    1. 99 FCR CtA switch
    Setup:
    Griffon (Cham)
    Head Hunter's Glory (5/5 facet, 5/4 facet, 15 IAS/[email protected] jewel)
    Razortail
    Rare rings with FCR/ML/LL each
    Silkweave
    Titan's
    3/20 gloves
    2/20 craft amulet

    CtA/35 Spirit switch
    Merc: Infinity/Fortitude/Andy's

    This is by now my standard Javazon setup, built around the 2/20 amulet. Love it. Runs in the vid I posted above earlier are with this gear, so that was the benchmark for me.

    Initial runs with this setup were around ~55s average.

    2. 99 FCR Wizzy switch
    Setup:
    Griffon (15 IAS/3 MPK jewel)
    Monarch socketed with four facets (18/18)
    Razortail
    Ravenfrost
    Rare ring with FCR/ML/LL (SoJ is probably be better, didn't try yet)
    Silkweave
    Titan's
    3/20 gloves

    The idea was to again have 99 FCR on switch but with maximum firepower on Javelin switch.

    Also I lucked a 2/20 amulet which probably not that many have, so the 50% FCR weapon is the other and much more common/easy to achieve option to get 99% FCR on switch.

    Tried with two amulets, HLW for 55% IAS, and +2/8% ML/@ craft. In terms of run times it didn't seem to make a difference (yet again).

    As expected, the extra life from CtA was not required, but without it I had to take some more care with my mana, potting here and there and picking up more pots also. In the end, that seemed to make it a little bit slower at 1m to 1m5s. But this could very well be due to the small samples. Maybe SoJ makes the difference, didn't try with it yet.

    But I don't see any reason why this should be slower than setup #1.

    3. 68 FCR Javelin switch (Lidless Wall)
    Setup:
    Griffon (15 IAS/3 MPK jewel)
    Lidless Wall (5/5 facet)
    Razortail
    Ravenfrost
    Rare ring with FCR/ML/LL
    Silkweave
    Titan's
    3/20 gloves
    2/20 craft amulet

    CtA switch

    This worked well, run times around 1m to 1m10s.

    4. 68 FCR Javelin switch (Spirit)
    Setup:
    Griffon (15 IAS/3 MPK jewel)
    Spirit
    Razortail
    Ravenfrost
    Rare ring with FCR/ML/LL
    Silkweave
    Titan's
    3/20 gloves
    +2/8ML/@ craft amulet or HLW (prefer the former)

    Same as above, but difference here is that Lidless is swapped for Spirit and instead of the 2/20 using another ammy with useful stats (+2/ML or HLW in my case). Run times were similar to the Lidless Wall setup. The latter has MPK and a little bit more damage due to the facet, but with a ML amulet swapped in, it pretty much felt exactly the same.

    Can definitely recommend this approach. As mentioned above, apart from Griffon's and Enigma, the rest of the gear is rather straight-forward and can largely be substituted with other stuff.

    5. 99 FCR Javelin switch (Spirit)
    Setup:
    Griffon (Cham)
    Spirit
    Razortail
    Rare rings with FCR/ML/LL each
    Silkweave
    Titan's
    3/20 gloves
    2/20 craft amulet
    CtA switch

    This does not hit the 32% IAS BP. Yet it was not too bad, at around 1m to 1m10s.

    6. 99 FCR Javelin switch (Lidless Wall)
    Setup:
    Griffon (Cham)
    Lidless Wall (5/5 facet)
    Arachnid Mesh
    Rare rings each with FCR/ML/LL
    Silkweave
    Titan's
    3/20 gloves
    2/20 craft amulet
    CtA switch

    I figured since ghosts are the main target and die quickly, maybe an exception to the "Razortail must be used, no exceptions" rule can be made. Of course I was wrong, and could have known so, as the rule specifically states no exceptions. ;)

    It was fun, but the lack of Pierce was felt. The few runs I did where around 1m10 to 1m15s. Maybe this could work with max Pierce? I doubt it works better than the above, but could be worth a try.

    I only compared run times for this, didn't feel like counting thousands of monsters. :) Something to keep in mind for the setups with lower damage that likely kill fewer monsters in the relevant amount of time.

    Conclusions:
    Except for the last one, all of these work very well. Can definitely recommend #4 as standard approach with (relatively) little gear requirements. So far, setup #1 is the only one I averaged under 1m runs with. But that doesn't say that much, given the very small samples and overall lack of practice with the different setups on my end. Same for the indication that 99% FCR switch seems to be a tiny bit faster than teleporting on Javelin switch in my case.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2018
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  17. drmalawi

    drmalawi IncGamers Member

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    Ok I checked, it is the same Jewel to Rune ratio in AS as for CS, in case someone wondered. What I think is nice by counting Jewels is that then the "void drop factor" is accounted for.
     
  18. T72on1

    T72on1 IncGamers Member

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    I did 90 mins of AS with my Javazon too. Not really efficient, as my runs take about 1:30 on average, but being able to kill everything and everything fast is more fun than the Blizz Sorc for now, so I'll probably finish the set with her. 4 more hours to go.

    Since I haven't got Griffon's yet and I don't like weapon switching during gameplay, I went with a 68% fcr setup, having Spirit Shield, Magefist, a 10% fcr ring and 5% fcr amulet take care of the fcr. Not ideal, which probably explains the slow run times. Although things still kill in one or two throws, so it's probably more a matter of driver errors ...

    Founds of note were a +3/15/15 Eschuta's Temper, a Vamp Gaze and this lvl 1 beauty:

    Code:
    Lucky Grand Charm of Greed
    Grand Charm
    Required Level: 1
    Fingerprint: 0x790f2756
    Item Level: 80
    Version: Expansion 1.10+
    16% Extra Gold from Monsters
    12% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items 
    Not sure how high those can go at lvl 1, but it's one of my best, if not the best, I have found for lvl 1 iirc.
     
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  19. drmalawi

    drmalawi IncGamers Member

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    I have done 2h AS now with javazon, I use a 68% FCR setup. Best drops so far (apart from all the Cham runes) are a Spirit Keeper (my first ever) and a Martial Arts GC. I do not have a good FCR mana leech ring, so I have to chug a big blue now and then
     
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  20. T72on1

    T72on1 IncGamers Member

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    Hey, Spirit Keeper ... that would be a grailer for me this time around !!!

    No good mana leech ring here either, so I'm running without. 1200 mana after BO and some MPK is enough most of the times ;).
     

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