2017 Winter RFL Signup and Running Thread: Grande Finale

pharphis

Diabloii.Net Site Pal
Would be very easy to get from king with ~400 MF :D

But I'm, not willing to kill king with any of my characters
 

Pb_pal

Diabloii.Net Member
Regarding your fire druid, perhaps you could try this:
Once you get the leg and cast town portal, cast Armageddon, then get into portal to open a new one for cow level. Once you get there, timer of using fire skills could be off and you could cast Fissure normally. If this works like I think it does, you will also have 40-45 seconds benefit of pretty solid Armageddon damage without any penalty at all.
Just tried it and Armageddon gets cancelled out if you go to town. I decided to try and go single-tree and fully synergize it to see if I could still make it work. So basically I did this:

Cast Armageddon as soon as I enter the Cow level, BO, Cyclone Armor, then use the remaining ~4-5 seconds of timer delay to herd up some cows and then just continue the run as usual.

As far as I can tell it didn't speed things up on /p5, and just make the runs much clunkier. I even tried standing by a medium sized group of cows with just geddon to see how it performed, and even at slvl 39 it takes a few hits to kill a cow. By that time Fissure would have wiped them anyways. This is compounded by the fact that I have to stick outside the pack to keep good Fissure positioning, so most of the meteors plain old miss the cows. If this was a tele-stomping build it could maybe work better though.

If it didn't get cancelled out in town I'd say you may as well use it since it wouldn't hinder the runs at all, but going out of your way to cast it in the cow level does basically nothing but stop you from using Fissure for 6 seconds. Too bad, that could have been a cool addition.
 

Gripphon

Diabloii.Net Member
Too bad. I guess we have plenty of points to make use of Hurricane to at least slow down cows around us. Hype indeed.
 

Southpaw8668

Diabloii.Net Member
<Enters door with paper sign taped to the nearby wall reading "Newbs Anonymous.">

"Hi, I'm Noodle, and I'm a newb."

<In unison> "Hi, Noodle!"

"Hi, everyone. Thanks for the warm welcome. Oh, hey there Pharphis, good to see you acknowledging your problem."

"If you tell anyone I'm here, I'm going to revoke your 1.07 license."

"Pretty sure that's not a thing, but anyway, I'm here for another reason."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So, I've been spending some testing out some builds for cows. Nothing new there. Over and over again, I found myself unable to open the portal. Character after character, I even checked it out in Normal and Nightmare, and nothing. I started thinking there was something corrupted in my install, and maybe I should restart.

Then I thought maybe I'd try an Tome of Town Portal instead of a Tome of Identify. Were I a clickbait site, here is where I'd say, "The results will astonish you!!!"

In my defense, I've gone after cows maybe a dozen times since leaving Battle.net after the first season of 1.10. But yeah, a total newb maneuver.
That too funny Noodle, thanks for the early morning chuckles.:D I also tried to run a test run a couple of days ago with my only Pat and I also couldn't seem to get the portal to open in Hell. Then it dawned on me that I should probably be using a TP tomb and not just a scroll.:rolleyes:
 

Southpaw8668

Diabloii.Net Member
Hype - In my test runs I've already assembled two of three Cow King pieces, which I've never managed to complete thus far. Perhaps that last piece won't elude me during the actual tournament runs. Didn't realize that other cow bosses could drop those pieces I thought it had to be the king himself. Super stoked about that!
 

T72on1

Diabloii.Net Member
Preliminary results of testing:
Javazon p5 3:03
Javazon p7 3:35
Trapper p5 2:56
Fireball p5 2:56
For the Fireball Sorc, do you use Meteor as well or only Fireball? What about Static?

Also do you kill all packs or only from 5, 6, 7 Cows and up?

My speed is already improving, but 4:10 is so far from your times that I wonder what I am doing wrong.
 

Brak

Diabloii.Net Member
Yes Armaggedon is such a sad skill, so many prereqs, such a long casting delay, damage is distributed so uselessly

So I've respec'd my Druid. After Poison Creeper, Rabies, Lycan and Werewolf, I've got 15 skill points leftover, I'm guessing Fury would be the way to go so I can kill things (try not to die) while waiting for Rabies to do its job. Also looks like Ribcracker is probably my best option for a Fury weapon, this is usually upped and Shael'd/IAS jeweled?

Probably going to pair with a HF merc as I'm underleveled and undergeared. If it seems comfortable maybe switch to Might.
 

Pb_pal

Diabloii.Net Member
Too bad. I guess we have plenty of points to make use of Hurricane to at least slow down cows around us. Hype indeed.
I would say if you really want to try and make him efficient time-wise for cows you would go for the following build (requires lvl 93):

20 Fissure/Firestorm/Volcano
20 Tornado/Cyclone Armor
rest in Hurricane

Gameplay would be to enter cow level, BC/BO/CA/Hurricane then proceed with the run. Herd some cows together, lay down a Fissure and during the 2-sec casting delay spam some Tornados. Hurricane is just there to chill the cows close to you can keep the druid and merc a bit safer, but honestly I'm not sure it's necessary. Tornados are decent enough to kill some on /p5, the question would then be if it's a better use of your time to spam those 'nados or tele around the herd to re-guide them through the fissures during casting delay.

If I had to guess without any testing I'd guess that this build wouldn't save you much (if any) time from the standard Fire build, but stranger things have happened. Personally I would prefer to use that time to herd cows/position the merc and also have access to Oak for more comfortable running.
 

Gripphon

Diabloii.Net Member
For the Fireball Sorc, do you use Meteor as well or only Fireball? What about Static?

Also do you kill all packs or only from 5, 6, 7 Cows and up?
Depending on a situation, but I usually herd some cows, get in the middle, cast 2-3 static, throw 1 meteor where I won't spam fireballs and then 1 shot fireball everything with usually few cows leftover. If I herd big group of cows, then I throw meteor - herd - static - meteor - herd, fireball.

As for gear, I went this approach:

Griffons (lite facet)
3 fire skills amulet
1.07 Ark (allres cuz I don't have another Ark, otherwise facet)
Eschutas + fire facet
Phoenix
Arach
2x beta BKWB
Magefist
Silkweave

Skills:
20 all Fireball-relevant skills
20 Static (for huge range)
1 Warmth
1 Cold armor
1 Teleport

Griffons gives fcr and makes your static powerful so you can drop cows life down to 50% after 3 casts. With my approach, I have enough fireball damage to cast 2 static fields and then can 1 shot 90% cows on screen with fireball. You could use fire facet in Griffons, but one way or another, I'd recommend Griffons as helm because your static will have like 25 yards range, so don't count Infinity aura to help you with that much.

Sometimes I skip some lonely herds, but usually I just fireball them to death.

@Pb_pal
Interesting idea, seems good to me.
 

T72on1

Diabloii.Net Member
Thanks. It seems it's certainly a matter of damage to begin with. I need 3 fireballs on average to kill static'ed cows. About static: I only need 2-3 casts too, to bring them down to 50%. Not sure griffon's is needed for it.

For Rabies Druid: upped Ribcracker is definitely very good. I personally liked Grief, because it adds 25% reduced enemy poison damage to Rabies, while still giving very good speed and damage for Fury. If you dont mind switching weapons, there might be better options though.
 

Noodle

Moderator
That too funny Noodle, thanks for the early morning chuckles.:D I also tried to run a test run a couple of days ago with my only Pat and I also couldn't seem to get the portal to open in Hell. Then it dawned on me that I should probably be using a TP tomb and not just a scroll.:rolleyes:
I think you should be able to cube Wirt's leg, a Tome of TP AND a Tome of Identify, and all the items drop already identified.
 

Brak

Diabloii.Net Member
For Rabies Druid: upped Ribcracker is definitely very good. I personally liked Grief, because it adds 25% reduced enemy poison damage to Rabies, while still giving very good speed and damage for Fury. If you dont mind switching weapons, there might be better options though.
Thanks for the tips. I don't have a Grief laying around and don't want to spend a Lo on this endeavor, so I'll probably stick with a Plague Bearer (+5 Rabies)/Spirit switch for applying Rabies.

I really wish shifted characters displayed their items in some way, because I have a hard time telling what I'm using.
 

ffs

Diabloii.Net Member
Okay, so here's a video of two runs with a Javazon in 5m15s on /players7.

First run is around 2m40s, second is around 2m35s.


Now, with that out of the way, let's not talk about run times, but more about what really makes up efficiency, which is not the run time. The deciding factor is how much you kill in a certain amount of time. This playstyle as you can see involves skipping smaller groups and going only for the juice. So is it worth it? I don't know, but here are a few points to note.

The first run netted 549,638 XP (compare LCS when teleporting to the leg in run 1 and run 2). The run lasted 2m40s aka 160 seconds, which means 3435.23 XP per second. This in turn means 206,114.25 XP per minute. (EDIT: As @Gripphon pointed out, this has limited value however due to the running character being lvl 91.)

This super-quick playstyle is based on three things: Fast teleporting, fast throwing, and herding a lot. That means 55% IAS, 99% FCR on switch, good mana upkeep because of the high attack speed and LF abuse, and some overcoming of your OCD when skipping mobs. ;) The aim is to herd mobs as big as possible while keeping the risk of missing items as low as possible, which takes a few runs to balance properly. Since you only go for the juice, and everything dies instantly on /p7 because of how LF + Razortail combo works, no other player setting apart from /p7 makes sense for this.

Gear used in video above:
Griffon's with 15ias/3mpk jewel
Titan's
Enigma
Razortail
HLW
Lidless Wall with 5/5 RBF
Silkweaves
3/20 gloves
Raven
SoJ

Switch: Wizzy/Spirit with CtA pre-buff.

Most important stats being: 55% IAS, 99% FCR switch, and 13 MPK.

Regarding CtA pre-buff: I've tested without and just using Wizzy. As I've expected, the Javazon is fine without the extra life, but the Merc is not. It just needs too much babysitting, which adds up and means losing too much time.

To me, this style of play is incredibly fun, way more than I thought a javazon could be, and I encourage everyone to try it, especially Javazon players with really godly gear, to see what she's really capable of. Runs above are far from perfect still, there is room for improvement regarding both play style and map (narrower corridors would help a lot, but in general map is good). You can pick up less items than I do, and not do the misclicks I do. ;) Personally, having timed maybe 20 of these runs, I never got under 2:30. I think 2:40 is probably average. Regarding player settings, I just noticed I didn't set /p7 visibly in the video, so I'm sorry XP gain shown in LCS will have to serve as proof.

So people let's see your xp/cows per minute data people, I'd love to see how it compares! :)
 
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Gripphon

Diabloii.Net Member
@ffs
It says video is private.

As for your number or cows per minute, it is terribly wrong. There are no more than 450 cows on cow level, and by your number of cows it seems like you kill 1600 cows each run...

EDIT: by checking your first video, I see your amazon is level 90. For xp method of cow counting you need level 94 or more character because otherwise it is impossible to do since random minion will net you 60 or even up to 200 times more experience than regular cow. This explains why your number is what it is.

I might do some data like that for some builds, but certainly won't do it for every character. I'll post runtimes instead because they DO mean something, especially since I'm the one who plays the characters and could estimate how many cows do they kill in comparison to each other. That kind of data is still helpful in such way.
 
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ffs

Diabloii.Net Member
@Gripphon Video should work now, thanks for the hint. :) EDIT: Indeed, unforunately my lvl 95 Java sadly killed a certain cow royalty, and it's also not accounting for any elite mobs and Rakanishu. Edited to that effect. ;) However I still think this is the relevant calculation method for comparing cow runners. Run times are an indicator, but an extremely rough one and not suited at all on their own.
 
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Gripphon

Diabloii.Net Member
Look, I don't mind if you simply ignore my runtimes if you think they are irrelevant and don't trust my judgment when comparing characters, but I'll still post them even if I don't count cows. As I encourage others to do as well ;)

I have oldish data for necro, though on p5 he kills more cows than on p7. On p7 he had ~126 cows per minute (measured), while now I assume he will have ~165 p5 cows per minute (should be measured via xp method), or that is comparable to ~146 p7 cows per minute. But necro kills more cows than other characters since CE is OP. I guess I can do 10 runs test for each character to see how many cows do they really kill. But there is no way we will be able to compare it to your running unless you level up your amazon to 94 because before that you won't be able to have any sort of precision estimating number of cows via xp method.

That is incredibly annoying to do because you really have to look what your xp is AFTER you get the leg and definitely not counting Rakinishu into it.
 
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