2016 Winter RFO Sign-Up and Running Thread

Gripphon

Diabloii.Net Member
That would be most ideal map for any character I'd say, because movement of minions is maximally reduced. They have only 1 exit point, and you are blocking their path along with your merc. It does happen once in a while that one of the minions starts to run around and get behind you on balcony, but that is pretty much same as if he stayed with his companions because you can simply throw Blizzard at them and Blast him up. You won't lose time at all. However, when positioned at middle of balcony or anywhere else, they have much more space to run from you and you will eventually end up chasing them around individually from time to time, once you get rid of those who didn't run. That is true for any character really.

But, it is not much of a difference between having minions clustered at dead end of balcony, and having them at the middle of balcony, or even at the edge of the room inside. It is slightly more annoying, but you won't see much of a difference anyway. Most important part is - they have to be clustered together to hit them as many as you can at once. Having them clustered in the middle of the room is also inferior. You do want their movement being as limited as possible. Also, fair warning that Blizzard spell acts weirdly when something is right next to a wall. It's like Blizzard's damage is reduced because less shards affect the minion, and that is downside of having minions at the wall, while having them in the middle of the room is obviously not good either. Not for sorc at least.

All that being said, having clustered pack of mnions anywhere on balcony is great. Maybe not as perfect as having them at the dead end, but very similar. You will get in more situations you have to chase them around, but that's life. Downside of rolling perfect kind of map (having them clustered at dead end of balcony) is it could take questionable amount of time. I've rolled total of I think 4 maps in career that would fit perfectly for sorc needs in that sense, while I rolled over 10 "close enough" type of maps. When you roll map where they are clustered anywhere on balcony or at the edge of room, I would give it a try to see am I happy. I'd be much more happy to have them on balcony than anywhere in the room, but that's me. If you really want to roll perfect type of map, then be ready to really dig into rerolling maps, it will take a while to roll such map. Personally, I'd stick with first clustered on balcony type of map and then roll maps with other sorc for a better one, to not risk losing great map just because I wanted to roll perfect one.
 

Grape

Diabloii.Net Member
Thanks for the tips! I'll keep this one I have now; it has also them in the middle just like the last time. Few test run batches with run counter should show how it is.

If I feel like rolling some more maps, I have a spare sorc for that.
 

maareek

Diabloii.Net Member
And that is most annoying thing about sorc, rolling her tier Travincal map takes time. Not too much, but could take over an hour-two (if it takes like 15 seconds to reroll a map.) Or 10 hours if your name is Maareek.
That's a good joke. Me, getting a good Trav map, ha-ha. One of your better ones. Well done, sir.

Imma go cry now.
 

maxicek

Moderator Single Player
Interested to know what everyone is running with? I will probably try both Barb and Sorc.
 

XyleneCyanol

Diabloii.Net Member
Mainly Blizzard Sorc, but I also have a zealot in case I get bored.

Taking Gripphon's advice, not bother to have over 10K+ blizzard damage, but go with 105 FCR and some safety gear. Indeed, killing speed is not affected.

In addition, by using hotspur + hellmouth, it is fun to watch all the Hydra and Nigh Lord's attack are actually healing you, great!
 

Gripphon

Diabloii.Net Member
That is indeed nice, but also you have option of rising your MF a bit since Travincal is great target to farm rare stuff and facets, so instead of hotspur, War Travelers in addition of maybe Shako/CoH would be nice to have. Gheed is optional because with Gheed in, you'd have to mule if you want to farm other Gheeds, which I don't care about.
 

Grape

Diabloii.Net Member
Same as Xylene. I'm fairly sure I'll run the whole batch with a Blizz. Maybe few runs into second one with zealot if I really feel so, but I'm quite sure I won't have that much time.
 

Friiser

Diabloii.Net Member
I haven't played 20 hours of D2 in the last two years combined. I will need some serious amounts of WD-40 to get the rust off my skills, but what the heck, I'm in.
 

japanzaman

Diabloii.Net Member
I'm thinking of going in with a ww barb. Any thoughts on using an amulet for Tele charges instead of Enigma in order to keep Fortitude on for the extra damage? If I pre-stash a lot of gold I imagine the time loss to repair would be rather small compared to the damage increase, but I'm guessing somebody here has already run those numbers. Is the added damage worth it?
 

nulio

Diabloii.Net Member
If Fortitude + Teleport Amulet were better than Enigma the perfectionists would be using it :p
 

Fabian

Diabloii.Net Member
japanza,

Shouldn't be more than 20-30 minutes to do a decent test of both setups to see which you prefer (and/or which is fastest). I'd go with the one you prefer.
 

maareek

Diabloii.Net Member
Fortitude + Teleport amulet was the standard before 1.13. Nobody uses it now. That includes Mr.Spreadsheet himself, Fabian. At the end of the day the honestly fairly paltry actual damage difference between the two armors will not offset the time you spend repairing the amulet. You'll save maybe half a second per run with the extra damage from Fortitude but having the same speed of teleport will mean you repair every...3-5 runs? Net loss of efficiency almost every time.
 

japanzaman

Diabloii.Net Member
Thanks for the fast replies. I was thinking that at higher player levels there might be some benefit with the amulet approach, but I'll defer to people who have run this area more than myself.
 

Gripphon

Diabloii.Net Member
Now a shocking news: with teleport amulet + Fortitude your damage is actually the same, instead of gaining it. You also lose nice MF and skills. You gain resistances, perhaps some life and annoying chilling armor which can shatter corpses, thus losing even more than gaining.

Why do you not gain damage with Fortitude is easy to explain if you get all the important factors in play. Any standard barb should have ~1100% ed by himself, or over 1300% if we include merc aura. Actually, Grief has like +170% damage to demons, which brings us up to 1250%+ yourself without merc aura.

Now, how much damage do you really gain with Fortitude in comparison to Enigma? Let us check Enigma in that part. Strength bonus acts same as ed% bonus, and Enigma gives like 70, depending on level. On top of that, Enigma + typical Highlord's give you 3 skills, while Fortitude + some fancy amulet could give you 2, which is 1 skill less. That 1 skill gives 13% ed with skills, but also gives you 56% item find with dual hoto on switch, which you lose unless you make up that 1 skill difference. Overall: Fortitude gives 300% - 70% - 13% = 217% more damage than Enigma. Fine.

In 1270% ed range of standard travbarb, extra 217% would give him roughly 17% more damage in the end, or like ~14-15% if we include merc aura, which is not immediately active however.
But that is not all. Remember that we removed Highlord's? Well, with that we lost some damage as well. Let us assume barb is using Gore Riders, Highlord's, Grief etc and is like level 94. By removing Highlord's in those conditions, you would lose ~15-16% damage (bacause of deadly strike).

Those are some estimations. Bottom line is, with Fortitude you do not gain damage if you try teleport amulet combo (teleport circlet + Highlord's is different though). That 300% ed bonus on Fortitude is very misleading indeed if you don't consider all the important factors that affect damage.

On top of that, Enigma is... well, Enigma. Teleport, positioning easy, MF bonus, skills... and all Fortitude gives you in comparison is allres and some little extra life. Defense too, ok, but also Chilling armor which can shatter corpses. To gain damage per hit, you need teleport circlet + Fortitude combo along with Highlord's, but is it really worth all the trouble for what, 16-17% extra dps you wouldn't really feel and to lose MF and teleport making your runs slower...

Fortitude is one of those items who mislead in major way. People see that extra % damage and their eyes sparkle, but truth is not so bright in the end.
 
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