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20/5 life/resist duped/unperm?

Discussion in 'Theorycrafting and Statistics' started by NickaliskTrent, May 17, 2008.

  1. NickaliskTrent

    NickaliskTrent Banned

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    20/5 life/resist duped/unperm?

    Are 20life/5 all resist small charms ALL duped/unperm?
     
  2. carnivore

    carnivore IncGamers Member

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    Re: 20/5 life/resist duped/unperm?

    at least one isnt.



     
  3. Erwwwd

    Erwwwd IncGamers Member

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    Re: 20/5 life/resist duped/unperm?

    when a dupe is made the original is also liable to poofing, so this isn't necessarily true.

    but ofcourse there are normal charms like that, I found a 18/5 myself


     
  4. Jednowlosy

    Jednowlosy IncGamers Member

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    Re: 20/5 life/resist duped/unperm?

    Expect the majority of "perfect" items beeing duped. It won't necessarily poof (not until full ruststorm), but it's most likely still a dupe. The safest way is to find such charms yourself ^.^
     
  5. Arkardo

    Arkardo IncGamers Member

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    Re: 20/5 life/resist duped/unperm?

    Or go for lesser ones, like 18-19/4-5
     
  6. galzohar

    galzohar IncGamers Member

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    Re: 20/5 life/resist duped/unperm?

    As if you can tell if the lesser ones aren't a dupe... Play offline and don't trade, then you'll be safe.
     
  7. mephiztophelez

    mephiztophelez IncGamers Member

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    Re: 20/5 life/resist duped/unperm?

    not all of them, but there are a LOT of duped 20/5's out there.

    personally, i wouldn't trade for a perf 20/5 sc with someone i didn't know & trust.



     
  8. Alecz

    Alecz IncGamers Member

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    Re: 20/5 life/resist duped/unperm?

    The problem is it's hard to find guides that don't rely on dupes.

    Just recently I was thinking about trying an assassin, and I decided to check a guide to see what a build would look like.

    The gear was very specific: Enigma, etc... so i dumped the assassin idea...:cry:

    Every day on b.net i find these kids that they they are only missing a Lo and a Mal, to make a Grief (in a Crystal Sword), or need a Jah and a Ber to make Enigma (in Gris armor) for their hdin. They talk about these like they are easy to find.

    So the stuff that is likely to be found is rarely present in guides, if you follow a guide "a la carte", you will require "duped gear":sad2:
     
  9. thegiantturtle

    thegiantturtle IncGamers Member

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    Re: 20/5 life/resist duped/unperm?

    Then you're reading the wrong guides. There are nice guides that give realistic gear suggestions. Most decent guides I've seen have different tiers of gear suggestions: expensive, affordable, and cheap.

    You shoulda just dumped the guide, not the assassin.

    If you follow a guide a la carte, then you won't require duped gear. You might want to look up the definition and usage of a la carte.



     
  10. Alecz

    Alecz IncGamers Member

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    Re: 20/5 life/resist duped/unperm?

    1. I read the guides from the stikies (just picked up a random one)

    2. hahahaha, my bad, wrong usage of "a al carte", I actually meant the opposite, "by the book", word by word, you know.... faithfully follow the guide.


    I remember the time when I started to play Diablo and "someone told me" that Pallyies with charge are good. That was the only guide I needed! I made my first HC character a charger that made it to Act3 Hell (then i stopped playing him), it was untinked!

    I used to think that only Bowazonz were viable, but my brother told me "Lighning fury is good" That was again all I needed to make a Javazon.

    Now I wanna try the assasin, but have no idea what's viable. The guide I read was saying something about lightning traps, but said you need Enigma. Now if I don't have enigma will the assassin fail???? So assassins were not viable before Enima was introduced? I know all 5 classes in classic were viable in expansion without any runewords.


     
  11. NASE

    NASE IncGamers Member

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    Re: 20/5 life/resist duped/unperm?

    if that is your problem, then this is your solution. The two things you want as traps are Lightning Sentry and Death Sentry.
    Combine that with points in either shadow master or shadow warrior. Put one point in mind blast and one points in Cloak of Shadows just to distract monsters. Put points fade or burst of speed as you see fit.

    The idea is to lay traps and then run/hide/distract monsters while they are killed by the traps.

    As gear you want +skill and some res and life just enough to survive - don't forget to count in fade if you chose so.

    Voila, should be enough to get you started.


    P.S. as shield - if you want one, you can go dual claw - I advise Rhyme.
     
  12. Alecz

    Alecz IncGamers Member

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    Re: 20/5 life/resist duped/unperm?

    Great guide Thanks!

    Would Treachery fade work, or I'm not supposed to get hit that often for it to trigger?
     
  13. galzohar

    galzohar IncGamers Member

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    Re: 20/5 life/resist duped/unperm?

    Without a lot of gear, lightning sentry will not do a lot of damage without full or almost full synergies.

    If you want an assasin, the least gear-dependant attack is dragon tail (~10k damage with lvl20 kick and TS with myrmydon greaves). Killing FI/PIs as an assasin without gear is a bit of a problem, though, as all the solutions for a TS assasin are rather weak without good gear.

    Another option is PS/CoT/FoF since +skill gear is not that hard to get, at least on battle.net, even if you're not using any duped gear. Your survivability will get damaged with lots of low quality +skill gear though but at least you may be able to deal some damage.

    And you can always go pure trapper and/or get fire blast as a lightning immune killer and put the rest in lightning sentry. If you do that, though, seriously minimize any points spent outside the trap tree as you will need every single one of them.


    Other classes have even better options for untwinked play. Amazon is actually not one of them, as while freezing arrow is decent with just a razortail and some IAS jewels and minor +skill gear, killing cold immunes is a problem without a lot of good +skill gear for lightning fury or a very strong bow for physical damage. Immolation arrow is just horrible for the cooldown it has if you ever considered it.

    Sorceress can easily play untwinked, especially if you have friends to take care of fire immunes but even with 20 points in frozen orb and 1 in mastery you should still do noticeable fire damage while still killing fire immunes at a reasonable speed.

    Hammerdins and 20/20 skeleton/mastery summoning necros can probably go kill stuff naked. Poison nova necros are also reasonably good untinked, and with trang'oul's belt+gloves+shield are killing machines when comared to other untwinked characters.

    Even holy shock paladins can kill without much gear. Assuming you get either cruel phase blade with shaelX2, or better, a ShaelUmTir phase blade though the Um has decent chance to be duped too yet it is not too rare to be heavily duped, I actually found one myself from countess) can kill pretty well, although lightning immunes will require good gear in order to kill at a reasonable rate. Get a might merc to help with that. Don't put more than 1 in holy shield as you'll need the point in holy shock and its synergies AS WELL AS ZEAL for increased attack rating (which would *need* to be high in hell - ~10k is a good idea despite what people say if your weapon doesn't have ITD - and even if it does it's still good to have decent AR to hit bosses/uniques/champions). 75% (total on all gear) IAS is required to greatly increase your effectiveness (but anything above 75% does absolutely nothing).

    Amazons/barbarians/zealots really need a decent weapon (high-end cruel is quite the minimum, anything stronger is welcome) to kill decently in hell, but once they have that the rest of the gear can be pretty cheap and can easily play those classes without a single runeword. But I wouldn't even start one if I didn't have a weapon to go with. Melee druids and avengers also fall in that category although they're weaker and/or less survivable (depending what gear/talents/class you compare to) the above 3. Keep in mind barbarians require hitting the last WW breakpoint to be viable with cheap gear, more on that in the barbarian forum.

    I play single player so I don't even have as much gear as I gave in the examples yet I find the above builds viable - all are viable without a single runeword and without a single elite unique (although an elite weapon with ~300% ED or similar quality is required).
     
  14. AnimeCraze

    AnimeCraze IncGamers Member

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    Re: 20/5 life/resist duped/unperm?

    Is it a PvP guide? If so, you need enigma, period. Try to catch someone teleing without enigma and see what I mean.

    If it is PvM, the guide suck. I have gotten an untwinked trapper to guardian before, so you definitely do not need enigma there, OR infinity, for that matter.

    As for treachery's fade, you don't want to get hit often enough for it to trigger for a trapper.



     
  15. Alecz

    Alecz IncGamers Member

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    Re: 20/5 life/resist duped/unperm?


    I understand that in PvP you need enigma because everyone tele's. But the guide I was talking about was PvM. All I wanted to know is what skills are recommended, because I don't know that much about this class. But as you know many guides will tell you to go lightning, and use infinity, then if I don't have infinity... is lightning still good? This is what bugs me.

    @galzohar: Thanks fo your insight over the classes and how easy they are to play untwinked relative to each other. Good reading.

    I think this is getting a bit OT, but when guides recommend heavily duped items, they are not helpful as guides (i think I'm repeating myself here).

    And what's this perm/unperm thing??? I still don't get it! If i find an item, do I have to perm, or what the hell is going on???:banghead:


     
  16. helvete

    helvete IncGamers Member

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    Re: 20/5 life/resist duped/unperm?

    The perm/unperm thing is duper speak. It relates to how likely a duped item is to "poof", which means it was an illegal copy, and the servers deleted it.

    Nothing you need to worry about unless you're trading (or duping yourself...)
     
  17. Alecz

    Alecz IncGamers Member

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    Re: 20/5 life/resist duped/unperm?

    Geez... I was too worried for nothing! As far as I'm concerned: Let the dupes poof! :thumbsup:

    I mostly play self-found, and I trade for rather cheap items, so I'm not too worried! Even if they poofed, they were cheap!


     
  18. AnimeCraze

    AnimeCraze IncGamers Member

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    Re: 20/5 life/resist duped/unperm?

    You need fire blast to handle the immunes, but otherwise, it's the same. Your traps will not be killing fast without infinity in a 8 player game, but should still be more than enough to solo the game easily.



     
  19. helvete

    helvete IncGamers Member

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    Re: 20/5 life/resist duped/unperm?

    Not to mention that it's easy (though a little boring) to shop two +3 traps claws, and fairly easy to get +skills from amu and head slots. Then there's Treachery which requires a Lem, but that's not too unlikely by the end of NM either.
     
  20. Jednowlosy

    Jednowlosy IncGamers Member

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    Re: 20/5 life/resist duped/unperm?

    Fire blast maxed with synergy and gear: 7k dam, extremely fast "cast rate" (based on ias..) and much bigger splash than fireball. Kinda underestimated spell. I'd say it's a must for any pure trapsin to have it maxed. Saves a lot of time and speeds up boss killing :)

    Without infinity, you won't be very fast, but you should have little trouble to finish the game anyway. What you really need for a low lvl trapsin with bad gear is insight. Dunno if you play single or bnet, too lazy to check, but if you play on bnet, getting any legit insight is very easy. Otherwise you'll constantly run out of mana. Add a spirit sword asap too. A very good item for starters.

    max FB first, it will get you through normal and nightmare with a yawn and bad gear. LS becomes good only when maxed and partially synergized, otherwise don't bother, except for fire immunes. Death sentry is always good, on any diff level, but it terribly sucks at players 3 and more.

    It may sound disappointing, but trapsins imho need eni and infinity as much as other elemental caster chars. Eni is useful if your merc (with infi) laggs and disappears somewhere (you constantly need him on the front line to keep the aura up), and for other things. Infi simply quadruples your killing speed.

    Ofc you may do well without both.. finish the game, that is. It may be tricky at certain parts, though :))

    dont forget that assas have the best crowd control in the game, though. You can laugh at almost anything. What can't be cloak-of-shadow-ed can be mind blasted. Including Lister the mercenary killer ;)
     

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