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2 Player Untwinked Builds?

Discussion in 'Newcomer Forum' started by doge, Feb 26, 2017.

  1. doge

    doge Diabloii.Net Member

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    My girlfriend and I are playing the game together. She's new to the game. On my end, I've tried a few untwinked single player builds and the only one I've been able to finish on was corpse explosion necromancer. I tried barbarian but the damage output was way too low. Same went for zealot. What did work somewhat was a hybrid zealot with holy shock as the source of damage and zeal as the delivery mechanism. That build breezed through normal and nightmare but is stalling in hell and probably will take some grinding to finish with.

    This then makes me think, would it work if I were to play a frenzy barbarian or pure zealot and have my girlfriend enchant me or would the damage be too low still? BTW, would enchant apply twice to a dual wielding barbarian? If this sort of build wouldn't work, I'd be happy to hear additional 2 player ideas.
     
  2. Namtar

    Namtar Diabloii.Net Member

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    Enchant is a great skill to use on melee allies, but since she presumably lacks gear for a dedicated Enchantress, it would be hard to justify spending all those skill points on Enchant when she could be using skill points to make herself a source of damage. And yeah, if you have Enchant cast on a Frenzier, you'll still get the damage from Enchant added to every hit, not just hits from one of your weapons or whatever (although this isn't the same as it applying twice, so I'm not really sure what you're getting at).

    I'm a bit puzzled that you wouldn't get high damage from the traditional Fanatic Zealot. It should be fine for killing stuff in Hell, even without good gear. Yeah, you won't be blazing through Act V with ease, but you shouldn't be getting stuck either. Something is wrong there.

    I don't normally play untwinked and haven't taken Hell difficulty on untwinked in many years, so my knowledge is fuzzy and outdated when it comes to this stuff. But one thing that might help, especially since there are two of you, is to stay in lower difficulties killing high-experience bosses (especially Baal, if possible) repeatedly. Even for my twinked characters (the ones that aren't inherently overpowered anyway), I take some time to gain more levels before moving up in difficulty, just to make the Hell more manageable. Like, I often get to level 80 grinding bosses in Nightmare before moving on to Hell. It's a bit extreme, and it could take more time with untwinked characters, but if Hell is that big of a problem, it might be worth it.
     
  3. doge

    doge Diabloii.Net Member

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    It's a numbers thing. Some skills add a percentage to your damage, some skills add a fixed amount. When adding a percentage, the base weapon damage makes all the difference. If you're playing untwinked, you can't expect to have high base weapon damage. Full synergy holy shock adds around 1-4000 fixed, you can do that much even if you're punching with no weapon, as a side note, that's a nice perk for corpse retrieval. Anyway, to contrast, the best item I've ever had drop was a hexfire. Fully synergy zeal only had me doing 500-900 with that and most games, I get nowhere close to that weapon damage meaning it would be even less. I know there's a lying character screen but I also know the holy shock averaging 3x more damage is accurate from how fast it takes to kill monsters. Fanaticism does add a bit of attack speed but since base weapon damage matters relatively little if you're getting damage from holy shock, I could slap 6 shaels in a phaseblade if I wanted more attack speed. As another side note, the attack speed calculator says it caps out at 80 extra IAS so maybe 4 is the most shaels you want.

    My reasoning for enchant is that the only synergy is warmth which is something that sorceress uses anyway so there are no wasted points so to speak and other points can be used to dual tree or further specialize in fire. The problem is even with maxed warmth and fire mastery, enchant only adds 500-650. It doesn't seem like much.

    I know gear can push it higher but I've been using the base 20 as max for these numbers for comparison reasons because if gear can push one skill higher, it can for others so the relative numbers should stay similar.
     
  4. Namtar

    Namtar Diabloii.Net Member

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    Oh, I get that. You're not going to approach the numbers that a decked out Fanatic Zealot gets, but I saw the result as somewhere between "cannot reasonably solo Hell" and "blazing through Hell like an optimally geared Zealot." And then "cannot reasonably duo Hell with help from a partner" is even worse. It shouldn't be that bad.

    Oh, I have no doubt that untwinked Holy Shock adds more damage than untwinked Fanaticism. What I didn't like about it was that lightning-immune monsters became a huge pain (it is possible to use Holy Freeze as a backup, but that is somethign I definitely haven't seen untwinked). But since it's a duo playthrough, immunity doesn't need to be as big of an obstacle, so Holy Shock could be the smart move.

    I vaguely remember hunting down an Amplify Damage proc item of some sort, which made the AS boost from Fanaticism even better because it would trigger the curse faster, but against most enemies, I'd imagine that Holy Shock still wins out.

    Hm, I'll have to look up the numbers for Enchant, because I'm not sure. Keep in mind that +skills boost both Enchant and Fire Mastery, whereas most skill synergies aren't affected by +skills. So it could be scaling a bit more than the boost that regular skills get from +skill gear. But I forget the specifics and Enchant has a few of its own quirks in terms of calculation. I think the bottom line on Enchant is that if you have an untwinked fire sorceress playing in a party with melee characters (and you could each recruit an Act II merc), she'll already be maxing Fire Mastery, and diverting points to Enchant and Warmth is probably a good idea. But she won't really have room for a second element, so against fire-immune monsters she'll be a Static Field source and not much else.
     
  5. krischan

    krischan Europe Trade Moderator

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    Maximizing enchant needs 60 points (enchant, warmth and fire mastery) and none at all for prerequisites, so I think there's enough potential for another element. I suggest maxing frozen orb and putting at least one point into cold mastery. Also one point in teleport, static field and frozen armor. Remaining skill pionts go into cold mastery.

    By the way, enchant is most effective on the sorc herself because fire mastery is applied twice then, once when casting and another time when attacking. That means, if fire mastery adds e.g. 300% fire damage (i.e. it quadruples damage), it would be 16-fold damage for melee attacks by the sorc! Missile attacks receive the mastery bonus just once, however just like attacks by others benefitting from enchant.
     

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