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2 ebotd FOR BABA GOOD?

Discussion in 'Barbarian' started by MasterAkihabara, Oct 6, 2006.

  1. MasterAkihabara

    MasterAkihabara IncGamers Member

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    2 ebotd FOR BABA GOOD?

    I have a whirlwinder baba(lvl 85) who is doing ok in hell. He has immortal set.. (some of my friends say immortal set isnt the best choice for baba but i just think its cool):smiley: So I wanted to try using 2 ebotd for my WW baba, would it get better or worst? SOme people says its better to hav own botd than 2 but im not sure about that so can anyone pls help me..:smiley:
     
  2. Thraphelga

    Thraphelga IncGamers Member

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    My baba (lvl88) uses 2 low ebotd cbs, My test subject were hell cows. With one ebotd 2h'ing it, I land about 3 hits per ww when hitting a single cow. With 2 ebotds, I land around 5. the dmg is 7.5k for 2h and 5k for 1h. I also use fort, rend, 40 ed jewel in my arreat face for more dmg.
     
  3. Thraphelga

    Thraphelga IncGamers Member

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    http://diablo2.ingame.de/tips/calcs/weaponspeed.php?lang=english
    plug the numbers in there and check it out. 12 attacks per second with ww with 2 ebotd cbs. try it yourself :thumbsup:
     
  4. PheonixLeader

    PheonixLeader IncGamers Member

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    I would use 1xebotdz (instead of cb) along with a beastz.
     
  5. sirwhere

    sirwhere IncGamers Member

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    You get roughly the same damage per second if you dual-wield botd or use 1 botd in 2h mode. Dual gives slightly more damage but is soooo much more expensive that you should only use it if you have nothing better to use the runes on.

    The story is somewhat different if you use grief/ebotd or grief/greif. In that case, dual wielding is definitely better.
     
  6. PheonixLeader

    PheonixLeader IncGamers Member

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    The best combo for pvm AND pvp is griefz/beastz. If you are only pvm'ing and u need some leech, swap the grief for a ebotdz.
     
  7. Ce Olba

    Ce Olba Banned

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    Actually, I did some little calcs, and I got to the outcome that Grief's added damage adds MORE life leeched per hit than if you had EBotdZ. That was a while ago though with random notes. Guess I have to retry it.
     
  8. Halciet

    Halciet IncGamers Member

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    In terms of damage, yes, but I would argue that for PvM only, it's better to just use two BotD. Why? Indestructible. Repair costs sucks, and regardless of what two weapons you're using, you're going to destroy mobs.

    -Hal
     
  9. PheonixLeader

    PheonixLeader IncGamers Member

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    Hal, +1 for the repair thing, but he did this thread to know if 2xebotd is the best choice (to kill faster than anything else) in pvm.

    Also, i don't think he's pvp'ing alot, so, if he is just playing pvm way, money isnt a big deal. Peeps are alot in need of $ if they are dueling and then go lv.

    I keep my griefz (or ebotdz for leech)/beastz combo over your 2xebotd choice anytime.
     
  10. Barloc

    Barloc IncGamers Member

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    What makes ebotdz/beastz > ebotdz/ebotdz ? Looks like I'm doing 1000+ more damage with 2xebotdz (both weapons hitting at the same time). Is it the OW + CB or does it involve hit checks- or what? Thx.
     
  11. PheonixLeader

    PheonixLeader IncGamers Member

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    Beast is good at boosting ur ar/ow/cb. U mainly hit (only) with your ebotdz.
    Ar is the key.
     
  12. Ce Olba

    Ce Olba Banned

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    Neither. Or well, it might be the OW and CB a bit.

    You see, EBotdZ already hits the max breakpoint.

    But you also see, EBotdZ+Beast, Beast adds a tad of damage to the EBotdZ

    Here's a comparison with the stats of my BvC:

    Oh, seems that EBotdZ+EBotdZ came on top. Now, that's unusual I would have to say. However, I doubt that I would've had a flaw in there somewhere. Also consider, that the BeastZ would be perfect ed and +36 str, and all the EBotdZ's are perfect.

    The weaker your EBotdZ's are, the closer EBotdZ+BeastZ will be. They WILL surpass them at a time.

    Oh, and there's no CB or OW counted it, due to it being overly difficult.

    Oh, the CB would add ~2.5% effective damage, making EbotdZ+BeastZ total at 72419.5025, surpassing 2* EBotdZs. However, the worse your EBotdZs, the better Botd+Beast will be. Also, the more CB you have, the better damage EBotd+Beast will do. And the OW will add an effective amount of ~213.359376 damage, making EBotdZ+GriefZ at 72632.8619. Note that adding the OW from Dracul's won't change the advantage, as both get added the same amount of damage.

    Oh, and also the added AR will give you a bonus to your effective chance to hit according to your opponent and your amount of AR.
     
  13. Barloc

    Barloc IncGamers Member

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    Ok then, that looks pretty cool thx, although I don't understand what all your numbers posted there mean. Ultimately they look pretty close, although I forgot about the AR bonus which is nice. Here's the numbers I'm looking at on my Barb, although not pure (has other gear on) here goes....

    Beast/botd
    2806-7543
    1627-4105
    (4433-11648)combined
    8040.5 AVG

    botd/botd
    2464-6502
    2521-6658
    (4990-13160)combined
    9075 AVG

    now that's with 400% and a 415% ebotdz and the beastz is 253% with 31 str. Hitting with both weapons at the same time, 9-10 times seems much more significant then what your posting (specifically, the difference in AVG damage) and obviously there are some big
    differences with pvp damage penalties vs pvm damage. Or maybe I just don't get it
     
  14. Barloc

    Barloc IncGamers Member

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    Thx. But I thought that those ow/cb bonuses were only applied to the weapon in hand, not universally like boots, gloves, armour and jewelry.
     
  15. PheonixLeader

    PheonixLeader IncGamers Member

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    Eh dunno on that one, but still, the bonus ar is nice for the 2 weapon.. so u hit abit with beast to get ow/cb on, and u mainly hit/kill the others with the boosted ebotdz :)
     
  16. Dimmu Borgir

    Dimmu Borgir IncGamers Member

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    Why do people call then "Baba's"? It makes you sound like you're two years old. Oh wait, everyone who plays Diablo II IS two years old. My bad.

    On topic, wouldn't a Last Wish be a good weapon? If I recall it gives something like a Lv.17 Might Aura when equipped. Thats like, I don't know, 300-400ish ED?
     
  17. PheonixLeader

    PheonixLeader IncGamers Member

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    Meh.. I don't know a 2 years old dude that listen to Dimmu and Mayhem, do you?

    On topic : dmg isnt the key like i said. Why do alot of dmg if u cant hit other dueler/monster. And again, there is for sure alot of combo possible, the user will choose but i'll suggest beastz/ebotdz(griefz).
     
  18. kabal

    kabal IncGamers Member

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    As far as I can tell from your numbers, you didn't take +damage charms into account although I'm not sure what your 1.4852 multiplier is supposed to be (chance to do double damage I'm assuming). If you didn't count your charms, then you should know that more off-weapon +damage favors eBotD/Beast (and more off-weapon %ED favors dual eBotD).

    I'm also interested in seeing your calculations for CB and OW. The calculations for CB and OW (OW in particular) involve so many simplifying assumptions for so many variables that exact figures tend to be useless in practice. IMO the only accurate way to gauge CB/OW damage would be empirical evidence via a combat log like in WoW.
     
  19. Barloc

    Barloc IncGamers Member

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    Sure, all of these weapons are "good", but not always the best for specific applications. Last Wish is slow and it wont hit the last ww breakpoint- so you gain some damage, then loose it due to the fact it wont hit as much.
     
  20. Ce Olba

    Ce Olba Banned

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    Well, I am counting PvM damage.

    I did not take into account any +damage charms, and I AM aware that they will of course boost botd+beast even more.

    Also, the multiplier for CB is taken like this:
    You have 20% CB on Beast. You hit with Beast 50% of the time, so you got 25%*50% effective added CB. Now, CB removes 25% of the current, life, making it 25%*50%*25%, totaling at 3.125% added damage.

    Oh, and yes, the 1.4852 is the double damage multiplier.

    The Might adds exactly 200% ED, and no, it won't be better. Actually, LW as a single weapon is the worst possible you can have. Oh, and Beast adds 186% ED and STR, which can total at added 226% damage, it also does more damage over time than LW and has MORE useful mods, so Beast>LW by far.
     

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