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2.4 Fundamental Problems remained untouched

Discussion in 'Diablo 3 General Discussion' started by clueso, Jan 15, 2016.

  1. clueso

    clueso IncGamers Member

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    Let me get this straight: yes 2.4 and 2.3 previously have added some amazing features, like the cube, new zones or the improved UI, but still this game has some fundamental flaws which I will now talk about.


    Build Diversity / Set Dependency

    The issue of a lack in build diversity and sets are intertwined.
    Sets are so uber-powerful that you basically have to equip one if you wanna be efficient.
    Sets also require and/or compel you to use certain skills, which basically funnels everyone into the same build(s).

    Yes, there is LoN, but Wyatt mentioned that they only want LoN to do T10 speed rifts.
    GR pushing only works for a few classes, namely those who are having legendaries that support a single skill – which brings me to the next point


    Boring Legendaries

    Currently the most powerful legendaries are those with special affixes that only buff a single skill by insanely increasing its damage, reducing/removing resource costs or reducing/removing cooldowns.
    After all they are just extensions of 6 piece sets.


    No PvP

    PvP arenas were a big selling point of the game and were already implemented as you can see in the video down below.



    The main reason - according to the devs - why we don't have PvP is because there are so legendaries in the game like Aether Walker that would be totally OP in PvP.

    But may I remind you that PvP in Diablo 3 was planned as being a completely separated game mode from PvE?!
    That means that skills in PvP could have other effects or numbers than in PvE: a skill could deal x% damage in PvE, while dealing y% damage in PvP.

    Same goes for items; legendaries or sets could have their numbers or effects changed to be balanced in PvP.


    [Controversial] Resource Management / Redundant Primary Skills

    Many builds have legendaries & sets available that reduce/remove resource costs, so they can spam their spenders, which causes Primary skills to be completely redundant.
    I know many people like that they can spam their skills, but than the resource orb on the right is totally unnecessary.
    Imo the accumulation and the right time to spend your resource is an integral part of mastering this game and I honestly would say that some of the fun was taken away because the devs want us to have infinite resource.


    [Sidenote] Paragon System

    Many people have already talked about it and made very good suggestions how to improve the paragon system so that the discrepancy on the leaderboards doesn't get to big - so I'm just including it here just for the sake of having mentioned it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2016
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  2. Dacar92

    Dacar92 Community, Amazon, DH Moderator & Inc Clan Officer

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    Just playing devil's advocate here. But did Diablo 2 have boring legendaries (uniques)or sets and builds that were dependent on certain sets? Think about these sets. How many were actually used by players? I think D2 suffered from the some of the same item flaws that D3 has. Builds are always dependent upon certain items. A D2 lightning zon was really not a lightning zon until she wielded Titans revenge or T-Gods or Thunderstroke. There was also a glut of lightning zons, meteor/orb sorcs and hammerdins and necros. So has anything really changed here?

    Regarding PvP I have no comments. I PvP'd only for fun in D2 and only w close friends who wouldn't steal my gold. :)
     
  3. In the name of Zod

    In the name of Zod IncGamers Member

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    D2 was about runewords not sets so much. The game in general needs desperately to get past this whole resource usage emphasis. It plays way to bigger role in determining game balance and power. As I recall a build in D2 wasn't complete until at the very least you got past resourcing your skills then you could actually play the game as intended. Resource management is very painful and not fun in its current D3 iteration. Imagine watching a pro tennis player running around a court on crutches, this is D3 right now because of they can let go of playing with stupid resources.
     
  4. Dacar92

    Dacar92 Community, Amazon, DH Moderator & Inc Clan Officer

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    Sets, runewords, whats the difference? It's still a resource game. You need that always elusive zod to make BOTD (although I always thought that runeword was over-rated). Amazons stole Treachery from Assassins as a leveling piece of armor. It was way easier to level and play the game with it. CoH was awesome for several builds. Resources? Runes were resources weren't they?

    I'm just trying to help people realize that both games were similar in so far as resource collection goes. Both games have issues. All games have issues.
     
  5. Valeli

    Valeli IncGamers Member

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    Think he just means mana leach / mana as "resource", and how when you had enough (or stuck an insight on your merc instead, or whatever worked for you) you could use your thing ad nauseum.

    Sort of like my D3 DH with Yangs Recurve (i think it was?) had a build that could ignore resurce generation entirely and never ran out of hatred.

    Seems to be getting at the point that it was easier to reach a sort of perpetual mana-fullness in D2 than a perpetual resource fullness in D3 (for most builds). I think that's a fair distinction between the two games. D3's devs seem to have put a lot of work in mixing abilities in for most builds, whereas (most) D2 builds focused on two or three skills that could become your constant attack.

    Not saying either is better/worse, but I get why someone might like to be able to constantly channel ray of frost (or whatever).
     
  6. In the name of Zod

    In the name of Zod IncGamers Member

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    As a side note: The current high GRifting teams have 1 team member supporting the rest of the team in resource so you have 3 of the 4 team members with no resourcing at all in their builds. In 1 or 2 player games you won't have that which means you'll always be effectively poor as wealth is a relative term.

    D2 people put the runeword insight on their merc's to ensure they had no mana problems. There was a bit of a juggling act as to how much mana you expected to use but it was pretty easy to predict.

    D3 also has a very different gamespeed which makes meatwalls obsolete, you're going to get hit so if you're juggling resource at the same time you get information overload. Imo its just a game mechanic that doesn't fit well into a more arcadier fast paced style of gameplay.

    I disagree its a resource game though on the premise that each iteration of the game they have tried to increase the pacing including expansions this to me is counter resource. Its clear to me that blizzard have an arrogant view about having more dynamics in their game and I just don't see a resource system fitting into this long term, it seems to be struggling to hold its own.
     

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