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15 unspent skill points on my PvM Lightning Zon

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by Steven Q Urkel, Jul 6, 2010.

  1. Steven Q Urkel

    Steven Q Urkel IncGamers Member

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    15 unspent skill points on my PvM Lightning Zon

    So my amazon just hit level 90 running the Pit. She has 11 unspent skill points. After completing the Radament quest in Act II and the Izual quest in Act IV I'll have 3 more skill points to play around with. And I figure by the time I make it from the Outer Cloister waypoint to Matriarch, I'm bound to pick up an additional level.

    So that leaves me with (at least) 15 skill points to throw around. I've never had an Amazon hit this level before, so I'm not quite sure where to best spend the points. The Zon is already pretty strong as it is, but 'pretty strong' isn't good enough for me. I want her to be the ultimate fire breathing bone crunching soul stealing Harbinger of Pain. :evil2: I've casually skimmed through the SPF Pat/Mat build compilation, but it seems that everyone who tried this character before me has done it differently. So I'm asking those Jedi's who are learned in the ways of the Zon to point me in the right direction.

    Here is my current Zon:

    clvl: 90
    Life: 2133 (after battle orders) Mana: 486 (after battle orders)

    Charged Strike dmg: 381-1184 melee, 1-7254 lightning
    Lightning Fury dmg: 430-1284 melee, 1-3369 lightning

    Str: 79 (146)
    Dex: 191 (216)
    Vit: 220 (245)
    Nrg: 15 (20)

    30 stat points unspent

    Skills

    Bow and Crossbow
    lol wut?

    Passive and Magic
    Critical Strike: 1 (11)
    Penetrate: 1 (11)
    Pierce: 1 (11) 73% chance to pierce

    Spear and Jav
    Jab: 1 (19)
    Power Strike: 20 (38)
    Poison Jav: 1 (19)
    Lightning Bolt: 1 (19)
    Charged Strike: 20 (38)
    Plague Jav: 1 (19)
    Lightning Strike: 20 (41)
    Lightning Fury: 20 (41)

    I've already decided I want to be a pure Lightning Zon, so that means no Bow skills or Poison skills. I believe that diminishing returns has already kicked in for Pierce, so no more hard points there. So basically, that leaves synergize CS/LF with Lightning Bolt, or perhaps dodge/avoid/evade, or perhaps Valk and Decoy. Hmmmmm. wut to do, wut to do? :scratchchin:

    In addition to the skills, I'm still on the fence on part of my equipment. I'm pretty satisfied with most of the slots, but still unsure of the weapon and belt. Right now I'm using upgraded Titans and Thundergods, but I'm not 100% sure they are head and shoulders above their TStrokes and TGods counterparts. Any advice?

    tl,dr: n00b Urkel is n00b. Halp me Zon, plz. :D
     
  2. NagisaFurukawa

    NagisaFurukawa IncGamers Member

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    Re: 15 unspent skill points on my PvM Lightning Zon

    What are you end game goals?

    Weapon: You'll want the replenish and FRW 95 times out of 100. Thunderstrokes helps you kill bosses a little faster, but it isn't absolutely necessary.

    Belt: What TGod's? :p Razortail will increase your damage by quite a sizable amount, so unless you're running an area where you desperately need the protection from lightning...

    Spare Points: I would get a Decoy, avoid the D/A/E tree, and put the rest into the synergy. If you don't find yourself using Decoy much, you can always re-specialize it out later, but I just can't recommend D/A/E or a low investment Valkyrie.
     
  3. Shagsbeard

    Shagsbeard IncGamers Member

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    Re: 15 unspent skill points on my PvM Lightning Zon

    I'd go with a valk... you can get +passives for your stash and switch to that gear before casting. Gloves, helm and ammy will get you +9 skills easy, and most weapons will give you at least +2. You can get a shield for +2 in Spirit, so it doesn't take much investment to get a fairly butch Valk.
     
  4. frozzzen

    frozzzen IncGamers Member

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    Re: 15 unspent skill points on my PvM Lightning Zon

    Skip dodges? Well possible since It's maxblock character, but when I made mine zon I tried both with and without dodges and I liked them.
    I guess this will be your cow runner? I don't think maxblock is needed for cowing tough, but that's why we're here to argue :)
    1 point decoy is must I would say and put rest in synergies.
    And Valk is clumsy in cow runs unless you have enigma. And merc too if you don't have enigma too.
    Poops' Hamburgler is the way to build Enigmaless cow runner.
    If you have Enigma then the whole world changes :)
     
  5. EatSleepDiablo

    EatSleepDiablo IncGamers Member

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    Re: 15 unspent skill points on my PvM Lightning Zon

    My most recent build stays out of bow side and avoids DAE.

    I chose to bolster the physical side (as a backup), upping CS, Penetrate, and Pierce, but I am still playing around with the allocations. Initially, I went with max Penetrate (for 14K AR w/ demon limb), but respec'd pursuant to Nagis' advice for something less (12K then 11K).

    If you go the Pure Fury route, increases to Pierce will give you more than a LF synergy, although CS will be stronger. Like everything else, however, it requires testing.

    Do what I did: Run the bosses for essences and token away...
     
  6. Paradigmshift

    Paradigmshift IncGamers Member

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    Re: 15 unspent skill points on my PvM Lightning Zon

    What frozzzen said... sirpoop's Hamburglar is the way to go, although I varied mine to some degree.

    I use Wraith Flight Ghost glaves as my weapon for the +15 mpk and never need to drink a potion whatsoever unless I get hit by a mana burn cow. I don't have a 4 open socket magic armor of (insert desired mod) currently or the 4 lightning facets to burn into one to enhance the killing as of yet so I use a treachery scarab husk. I don't find FRW speed a problem while using Harmony so I am not as heavy on the FRW.

    Currently my shield:

    Head Hunter's Glory
    Troll Nest
    Defense: 582
    Chance to Block: 0
    Durability: 74 of 74
    Required Level: 75
    Required Strength: 106
    Fingerprint: 0x896cbaab
    Item Level: 99
    Version: Expansion 1.10+
    300% Chance to cast level 123 Concentrate when you Level-Up
    Adds 3 - 222 Lightning Damage
    -15% to Enemy Lightning Resistance
    +12% to Lightning Skill Damage
    +409 Defense
    +312 Defense vs. Missile
    Fire Resist +27%
    Poison Resist +32%
    +7 Life after each Kill 3 Sockets (3 used)
    Socketed: Rainbow Facet
    Socketed: Rainbow Facet
    Socketed: Rainbow Facet

    As Poop's says, the +lpk and mpk are great due to the mass amounts of cows you kill and therefore they seem better suited here than leach.

    I utilized nothing but lightning and the synergies and 1 point each in Critical Strike, Penetrate, and Pierce. Razortail covers the rest of what I need for piercing. Other than I use a Mara's vs Cat's eye and some rare boots with an extra 10% FHR vs silks, the setup is pretty much the same.
     
  7. Pyrohemia

    Pyrohemia IncGamers Member

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    Re: 15 unspent skill points on my PvM Lightning Zon

    More lightning!

    You might find a Valkyrie useful but I wouldn't put more than one point into any passive as you ought to have plenty of +skills. If you plan on running cows then Valkyrie is useless and I would skip dodges. If you plan on running Baal/WSK then Valkyrie is useful and so are dodges that come with her.

    Really, you need more lightining. Push them all into lightning bolt. With your infinity you can never have too much power. :thumbup:

    As for titans vs thunderstrokes: titans for cows and maybe thunderstrokes for other things depending upon your playing style. The extra -res is noticable on anything with as much lighting resist as cows, 50%, even with infinity and griffons eye but you don't want to run out of javelins frequently. I found that I could run cows with thunderstrokes but I would use ~55 javelins per run which meant I had to repair every run which was annoying even if I killed faster.

    For running cows you really want razortail. For anything else you also want razortail unless you need the lightning protection afforded by TGods.
     
  8. Steven Q Urkel

    Steven Q Urkel IncGamers Member

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    Re: 15 unspent skill points on my PvM Lightning Zon

    After she is Matriarch, I definitely plan to rock out some /players 7 or 8 Cow Runs. Even w/o Enigma, I think this character is capable for Baal runs, so I may push her up to 93/94/95ish for gambling and crafting advantages, but for the moment at least I'm not planning on a dedicated push to 99.

    Yeah, thats prolly why I was considering them. I believe I've heard that TStrokes + Act boss = gg Dead Act boss, so I might keep them in my stash just for the Act bosses.

    Alrighty then, Razortail it is. :grin: I don't think I'm going to see too many Lite enchanted cows, but even if I do, I'll still have 75% resist w/o TGods so I should be o.k. I might swap them out for Gloams though, cause I've had several characters taste death at the hands of those little buggers, even with maxed lightning resist.

    But none of those characters had a Call to Arms. :D

    This will for sure be my Hell Cows runner, but if looking for Cow Kings items I will probably just run Nightmare with a sorc with heavy mf. Just like sirpoopsalot I am using a Head Hunters Glory w/ 3x facets, and If I've done the math correct it would take 315 dex to hit max block at level 90, even more if I level any higher. So unless somebody wants to craft me a +2 zon/20% chance to block/20 resist all amulet, max block w/ HHG just isn't gonna happen. I've only pumped Dex as high as I did so I could hit max block if I equip Stormshield, which is what I would use for Baal runs.

    I definitely gave that thread a read, but since 'Poops either didn't have access to, or simply chose not to use, Infinity (I do has Infinity, and you'll have to pry it from my cold dead hands, haha) I wasn't sure how well his zon would apply to mine. It also looks like I am using +skills and +resists more than Hamburgler, and I don't have any +mana per kill, but in terms of skill placement I could prolly follow that to a T (even though I maxed Lightning Strike instead of Lightning Bolt but IIRC they both provide the same synergy bonus so its negligible).

    Please, please tell me that this is a GoMule bug. In the unlikely event that it isn't, http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/6427/hansenc.jpg :D

    And I never even knew that Wraith Flight could be wielded one handed. Running low on mana is one of my weaknesses at this point, so that may be something worth looking into.

    Its interesting you should mention play style, because up to this point 9 times out of 10 my primary attack has been Charged Strike, and the -15% lite res from TStrokes would def. help here. I might go ahead and just do TStrokes and Razor for questing, if I can handle loosing the leech from Titans, and then swap back in Titans for cows.



     
  9. Paradigmshift

    Paradigmshift IncGamers Member

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    Re: 15 unspent skill points on my PvM Lightning Zon

    Holy cow I never noticed it said that. Yes that is a gomule bug obviously. It is supposed to say a 300% chance to cast a level 41 nova... good grief. I had to go open up d2 to make sure something completely freaking weird hadn't happened.
     
  10. Crazy Runner Guy

    Crazy Runner Guy IncGamers Member

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    Re: 15 unspent skill points on my PvM Lightning Zon

    I was always a fan of Silo's ThePerfectJava, a fully synergized, Baal-running LF zon. Also, here's his stats @ clvl 98 (same thread, post 12). Also, he debunked theory that Razortail > T-God's on an LF zon (same thread, post 19).
     
  11. NagisaFurukawa

    NagisaFurukawa IncGamers Member

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    Re: 15 unspent skill points on my PvM Lightning Zon

    Once you correct his math a little (either by changing his arbitrarily assigned value of "100" to [insert correct average damage here], or by comparing via percentages), that only proves how superior Razortail is compared to Thundergod's Vigor for damage... not to mention it's nice to have a consistent Pierce, as opposed to something that comes down to chance.


     
  12. Pyrohemia

    Pyrohemia IncGamers Member

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    Re: 15 unspent skill points on my PvM Lightning Zon

    Nagi is quite correct. Silo had it wrong.

    I'll use math, although as can be seen from the link math can be used to attempt to prove things that are both correct and incorrect. ;)

    (using Silo's damage numbers)
    Lighting Fury: 1-3693 (per bolt with ~40+ bolts)
    Lighting Fury with TGods: 1-4185 (per bolt with ~43+ bolts)

    Assuming 71% pierce with TGods and 100% pierce with razortail and assuming that there is sufficient monsters that a pierce guarantees another hit (LF is auto hit) up to the maximum of 5 monsters.
    71% pierce hits on average 2.82612781 times (1 + 0.71 + 0.71^2 + 0.71^3 + 0.71^4) as after each hit there is a further multiplicative 71% chance of piercing and a maximum of 5 hits.
    100% pierce hits on average 5 times.

    Now,
    Razortail: 3693 * 40 bolts * 5 hits = 738 600 maximum damage per throw.
    TGods: 4185 * 43 bolts * 2.82612781 ~= 508 575 maximum damage per throw.
    (Average damage will have the same ratio.)


    738 600 / 508 575 ~= 145%
    This means razortail does 45% more damage in this situation. Is it worth it? DEFINITELY!
     
  13. Greebo

    Greebo IncGamers Member

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    Re: 15 unspent skill points on my PvM Lightning Zon

    +1 to what frozzzen and Nagisa said.

    I have made a zon based on Sirpoops hamburgler too. It's awesome, and I wouldn't change her.

    Having said that, you should ask yourself: what am I really using this character for? Go from there.

    If it's cows, dump all points after getting decoy into synergy. Sure, you probably won't notice much the difference for LF, but you will notice it for Charged Strike. That's the point.

    The speed of LF zon in cows is not dependent on how strong you make the Fury. Once you reach some level of it, it's gonna destroy the cows anyway. The point is: "how do I deal with the 2-3 cows that remain after I killed 55 others?"

    That's where strong CS comes in, and the skill to use it (i.e. attacking from the right angle). You can't use LF for all the cows, or you'll end up going to town to repair all the time.

    About blocking with HHG: you don't HAVE to go for 75%. 45% works fine for me too.

    --Greebo
     
  14. Pyrohemia

    Pyrohemia IncGamers Member

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    Re: 15 unspent skill points on my PvM Lightning Zon

    If your endgame is cows then all you need is to kill them as fast as possible. Decoy will just waste your time. If you are running then both blocking and dodging are completely optional. Cows are dumb. Hell Bovine are dumb too. :p Any and all cows should be dead before they have a chance to land a hit. If you teleport via Enigma and are careless than dodging or blocking can be useful. You only have to worry about teleporting into the middle of a pack carelessly and if you run that won't ever be a problem.

    Avoiding dodges altogether would be a good plan as when you do teleport into the middle of a pack they tend to dodge lock you when you are trying to let off the one lightning fury that will fry the entire screen. Block could be good, but not with my personal choice: spirit.
     
  15. Crazy Runner Guy

    Crazy Runner Guy IncGamers Member

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    Re: 15 unspent skill points on my PvM Lightning Zon

    On a similar note, what do you think is the ideal IAS for a lightning-based Javazon? What frame do you want to Jab, CS and throw (LF) at?

    I'm re-making my LF zon in the near future and setting her up for Baal running, so this thread has been helpful - even with jjscud's Shieldmaiden and Silo's ThePerfectJava, too. I've just never felt comfortable sacrificing +skills for IAS/frw etc, but I need to figure something out. (reference: zon jav breakpoints) Also, I'm a big fan of Spirit on a Javazon - +skills, +mana, res, etc.

    For reference, my current Java runs with:

    Griffons (facet)
    .07 Valor (Um'd --> may replace /w IAS/res all jewel or go /w CoH (no IAS) - Enigma is also there, but no res or IAS there)
    Spirit (Other options: HHG /w IAS and facets or Storm /w IAS/res all or facet)
    Titans (how vital is up'd and/or ethereal?)
    +3 jav/10% IAS (may replace w +2 jav/20% IAS caster crafts)
    Raven
    SoJ
    Mara's --> May replace /w gosu crafted blood ammy /w +2 zon or jav and fr/w and res or Cat's Eye (for IAS/FRW/DEX)
    TGod's --> will replace /w Razortail on re-make
    Aldur's (anyone for 30% fr/w tri-res caster or safety boots?)

    Also, good catch on the maths - I didn't challenge them when Silo posted, and I should have.
     
  16. Frowzor

    Frowzor IncGamers Member

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    Re: 15 unspent skill points on my PvM Lightning Zon

    @CRG: I'm sure you really know this, but you're gonna be waiting a long time to try to craft an amulet with +jav skills. Amulets/circlets only get zon/passive skills.
     
  17. Crazy Runner Guy

    Crazy Runner Guy IncGamers Member

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    Re: 15 unspent skill points on my PvM Lightning Zon

    Wow. Didn't know that at all. Guess I'll check prefixes/suffixes next time. +2 zon would be fine, though and I've crafted plenty of those amulets. BTW, it looks like only Barbs and 'Zons are unique in their inability to get +2 to each their skill tabs from rare circlets and/or amulets.



     
  18. Frowzor

    Frowzor IncGamers Member

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    Re: 15 unspent skill points on my PvM Lightning Zon

    Well we all learn new things every day. Barbs don't have it as bad though, since they're just missing the Combat Skills tree on their amulets. Circlets can still get barb combat skills because they (along with shadow disciplines) can spawn on regular helmets like great helms and such.

    They combine the affix list for helms and amulets plus a few random ones (like the elemental damagers... and of the magus... and... so okay there's more than a few!) so circlets can get all three barb trees.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2010
  19. Greebo

    Greebo IncGamers Member

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    Re: 15 unspent skill points on my PvM Lightning Zon

    Yes and no. I don't use decoy 99% of the time. I'm using it to park LI bosses. It's faster than killing them with jab...

    --Greebo


     
  20. frozzzen

    frozzzen IncGamers Member

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    Re: 15 unspent skill points on my PvM Lightning Zon

    There is a very easy way to settle mana problems.

    Code:
    Triumphant Ring
    Required Level: 2
    Item Version: Expansion
    Item Level: 5
    Fingerprint: 0x42820681
    +30 to Mana After Each Kill

    Knowing mr. Urkel I'm pretty sure that he has Enigma or it's very close to it (and is making another of his crazy videos right now :badteeth:)

    Don't get me wrong, poops did great job with his cow runner girl, but in 1.13 days this build becomes rather weak when you compare it to things that you can do now.

    My zon decked for cows:

    Helm: Griffon's eye socketed with IAS jewel
    Amulet: HLW
    Wpn: Titans (regular one)
    Shield: 35 fcr Spirit
    Armor: Enigma
    Gloves: 3java/20IAS
    Ring1: 10fcr/36mpk
    Belt: Razortail
    Ring2: 20 dex Raven
    Boots: War Traveler (48MF if I want to switch them)

    Beta CtA + Lidless wall on switch

    7 x Java GC, Gheed, 8 x MF/mana sc, Cube, 2 x Tomes

    Merc: Infinity, Shaftstop/Treachery, Vampire gaze (durable merc indeed)

    One point in all passives and one in jab. Rest in LF/Cs and synergies.
    What I get?

    70fcr (68 breakpoint) for teleporting, positioning etc
    55IAS for fast LF/CS; it's same bp like poops had
    36 mpk (my mana is ALWAYS full)
    CBF
    99% pierce with Razortail
    -100 to enemy LR (Convi + Griffon's)
    Merc + decoy + Valk means that I never get surrounded
    3100life/800mana
    46/52/46 D/A/E
    ~180MF
    ~80FRW
    8500CS/3200LF dmg

    Average 4:41 run (only 15 runs example so it is probably not real number) time with taking leg and creating game, but even that is quite high for such zon I might say. If a better zon player would have this I could bet he would do it under 4 min.

    This is nearly half time poops had, so if you want competitive zon in 1.13 use Enigma.
     

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