14 levels of gems?

[Flux]

14 levels of gems?

So as was revealed in the Artisan presentation, there are 14 levels of gems. Jay Wilson elaborated in another interview.

in.Diablo.d3: There are 16 upgrades levels of gems?
Jay Wilson: 14, actually. What’s the difference? Well, due to the upgrade method, two more levels of quality would require tens of thousands of more gems to create the highest level. As it is it’s something like 19,000 of the basic gems to make the highest (14th) level. That’s probably still too high, so we might make it require fewer gems. Just 2 instead of 3 for each level of upgrade, or maybe we’ll knock the total number of quality levels down to 12 or something. We just wanted a ridiculous number of levels to start with.

That's cool, I guess. After all, there were 33 levels of Runes, and it required a number of Els greater than the molecules in the universe to make a Zod.

Of course the diff with runes is that every one of them did something different. With gems, they do the same thing, just slightly more of it. Jay confirmed a lot of D2 returning properties, like +stats. So with 14 levels of +strength, it'll probably be something like, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 12, 15, 18, 21, 25. Would that be worth the effort? I mean of course it's worth collecting Ist runes for a month to make a Vex. Would you do the same thing to add 3 more str, though? I'd guess not. At least it wouldn't be much of a priority.

The other thing Jay didn't get into is that it's not so much the levels, it's the frequency with which higher levels are found. If they have 14 levels of gems, but you can regularly find level 10+, then 14 isn't so high. If the most you ever find is lvl 5, then yeah, 14's a lot.

Also, can we hope for gem type stacking and one click conversion? I want a stack of 10 level 4 gems, and I can right click and select "upgrade" and then I have a stack of 7 level 4 gems and 1 level 5 gem. Etc.

 

[Tulklas]

Re: 14 levels of gems?

I think it's a pretty cool idea. Obviously if the stats don't increase proportionatley with the difficulty of obtaining the item nobody will care. But it sounds like a pretty fun little minigame always collecting gems and dreaming about the day you finally collect enought to get some uber gem. Also the idea that you can unsocket adds to the appeal.

For me, the rune system was broken due to the fact the good runes were just to damn rare plus you had to pull up a spreadsheet to find out which runes upgraded to which runes and which runes went together to make what words which I never bothered to do since I felt like the top runes were out of reach anyway.

With this system it's obvious an emerald upgrades to a better emerald, much more intuitive.

 

[Pyrohemia]

Re: 14 levels of gems?

That's cool, I guess. After all, there were 33 levels of Runes, and it required a number of Els greater than the molecules in the universe to make a Zod.

Close... only out by ~50 orders of magnitude. I kid I kid.

Currently, with 14 levels and 3 gems = 1 of a higher tier, a level 14 is 19 683 level 5 gems. That is too much, especially given that there is more than one variety of gem. I think that ~1000 would be good and ~2000 would be pretty extreme. That makes 15 levels of 2 = 1 of a higher tier is good or 16 extreme, while 12 of 3 = 1 of a higher tier is pretty extreme while 11 may be a little easy. I think 15 at 2 = 1 of a higher tier is the best. Its also a nice round number.

I don't think that the point of having so many levels of gems is to increase their ability, I think that it is for 'jewelwords'. The scaling of bonuses would have to be fairly steep to make cubing all of the way worthwhile just for socketing for bonuses. I find it much more plausible that these will be D3's equivalent of high runes.

I think that the ability to stack gems will be very important. I think that you should be able to stack gems of different levels together. If you are cubing up your gems you will otherwise go nuts with all of the different levels and all of the different varieties of gem.

 

[Killafornia]

Re: 14 levels of gems?

It's only 4,782,969 chipped gems to get to level 14. I don't know about you guys but I'm planning on playing d3 for the long haul.

 

[Pyrohemia]

Re: 14 levels of gems?

It's only 4,782,969 chipped gems to get to level 14. I don't know about you guys but I'm planning on playing d3 for the long haul.

Its actually 1 594 323 level 1 gems for level 14 currently (3^(14 - 1)). Assuming a generously fast 1 second per cubing action it will only take you 664 hours of constant cubing to get to level 14 from level 1 gems. Have fun with that. :thumbup:

 

[TheMythe]

Re: 14 levels of gems?

What if the amount of gems required scales downward upon reaching one tier higher.
E.G.
16 lvl1 gem = one lvl2 gem
15 lvl2 gem = one lvl3 gem
14 lvl3 gem = one lvl4 gem
13 lvl4 gem = one lvl5 gem
12 lvl5 gem = one lvl6 gem
11 lvl6 gem = one lvl7 gem
10 lvl7 gem = one lvl8 gem
9 lvl8 gem = one lvl9 gem
8 lvl9 gem = one lvl10 gem
7 lvl10 gem = one lvl11 gem
6 lvl11 gem = one lvl12 gem
5 lvl12 gem = one lvl13 gem
4 lvl13 gem = one lvl14 gem

Would this result in more doable numbers, expecting drops are regularly found?

I wish I was better at math really, can/will someone explain to me the formula to calculate? OR is this theory bogus from beginning to end (variety in numbers required for upgrade excluded)?

 

[Killafornia]

Re: 14 levels of gems?

Its actually 1 594 323 level 1 gems for level 14 currently (3^(14 - 1)). Assuming a generously fast 1 second per cubing action it will only take you 664 hours of constant cubing to get to level 14 from level 1 gems. Have fun with that. :thumbup:

I see I added an extra-step. Still the number is outrageous.

 

[Deckard Cain]

Re: 14 levels of gems?

Also, as of now the artisan can remove a gem from an item without losing it.

 

[Apocalypse]

Re: 14 levels of gems?

i dont think it is a big issue at all really. i assume the game will drop gems up to level 12? maybe stop at 10? hell could drop them til 14 for all we know. point is you wont be collecting level 1 gems the entire time so it really is a pointless debate. you will collect level 1 gems long enough for the level 2 to drop and collect them until level 3 drops and so on and so on. so assuming gems stack you just pick them up and go without worry.

now the bigger question is how long does it take to convert. if i have 30 level 1 gems can i click a button once and suddenly i have 10 level 2 or do i have to actually click the stupid button and probably watch a stupid animation 10 times? i guess i am ok with 14 it is just a weird number. why not just make it a nice square 10 and space out the bonuses a bit more

 

[TheMythe]

Re: 14 levels of gems?

The number of lvls was not yet set as far as I know.
Of course we'll not only collect lvl1 gems, it's just calculating the max. amount of gems, good to know that at least the real amount of gems it takes lies beneath that number

I bet they'll make a userfriendly cubing system so upgrading gems will be easy (or so I hope).

 

[Occulus cant be ethereal]

Re: 14 levels of gems?

i dont think it is a big issue at all really. i assume the game will drop gems up to level 12? maybe stop at 10? hell could drop them til 14 for all we know.

Jay said level 5 would be the highest that naturally drops.

However, perhaps lvl 14 wont be needed much and some really good end game lvl equipment will be satisfied with level 10 after the gem stat diminishing returns kick in.

Also in this game gems may not be getting "cubed" to craft something. Imagine how many D2 pgems you would have kicking around if you never rolled charms, crafted items, traded, or picked up all the flawless you seen? If its 3 for the next level its still a lot but if it drops to 2 after a certain level then you might be able to have multiple level 14s.

 

[The Rockman]

Re: 14 levels of gems?

So we need 19,683 level 5 gems to get the max if its 3:1 or 512 if its 2:1.
Or 4,782,969 level 1s if 3:1 or 16,384 if 2:1 from this I would say that 3:1 and 14 levels of gems with lvl 5 being the max drop have to be out as no one would ever get a lvl 14 gem unless gems drop like crazy.

 

[Pyrohemia]

Re: 14 levels of gems?

Imagine how many D2 pgems you would have kicking around if you never rolled charms, crafted items, traded, or picked up all the flawless you seen? If its 3 for the next level its still a lot but if it drops to 2 after a certain level then you might be able to have multiple level 14s.

Playing single player fairly heavily for two years and trading with the single player forum on this site I have kept fairly accurate records of how many gems I have spent. My records from caster amulets crafted and Baal charms rerolled both come to about 2500 perfect gems of each type (2500 perfect amethysts, 2500 perfect rubies, etc.). That makes 7500 flawless gems of each type which would hopefully be roughly comparable to Diablo 3's level 5 gems. This number, which includes extensive trading for gems, I think shows what is and isn't reasonable for Diablo 3.

 

[Occulus cant be ethereal]

Re: 14 levels of gems?

Playing single player fairly heavily for two years and trading with the single player forum on this site I have kept fairly accurate records of how many gems I have spent. My records from caster amulets crafted and Baal charms rerolled both come to about 2500 perfect gems of each type (2500 perfect amethysts, 2500 perfect rubies, etc.). That makes 7500 flawless gems of each type which would hopefully be roughly comparable to Diablo 3's level 5 gems. This number, which includes extensive trading for gems, I think shows what is and isn't reasonable for Diablo 3.

Good numbers....I was hoping someone counted on SP.

 

[sinter]

Re: 14 levels of gems?

@TheMythe

Dude your suggestion for 16,15,14 is just crazy. How would that make less then every level requiring 3 gems of the lower lvl? I mean even if u dont do any math 3 is a lot less than 16, isnt it ? I dont mean to offend you. I just thought it was funny
It would take 3487131648000 gems of lvl 1 to get to 14 which with 1s per click would take you 58118860800 minutes or 968647680 hours of only clicking to get from 1 to 14.

Now to be serious i think they'll make the requirement 2 instead of 3 gems to upgrde to the next lvl. That'd make the numbers much more reasonable and it will still be hard to get to 14.

P.S. not sure if my math is correct. Its late here, where i live and im REALLY sleepy.

 

[Apocalypse]

Re: 14 levels of gems?

Jay said level 5 would be the highest that naturally drops.

However, perhaps lvl 14 wont be needed much and some really good end game lvl equipment will be satisfied with level 10 after the gem stat diminishing returns kick in.

Also in this game gems may not be getting "cubed" to craft something. Imagine how many D2 pgems you would have kicking around if you never rolled charms, crafted items, traded, or picked up all the flawless you seen? If its 3 for the next level its still a lot but if it drops to 2 after a certain level then you might be able to have multiple level 14s.

i must have missed that. with that being the case i agree that the numbers are a bit much. in fact i think gems could be used as the new currency if it stays like this of course assuming the final level gem was truely amazing

 

[stillman]

Re: 14 levels of gems?

Well, you can pop the gems out without destroying them now. So as the years go by, it should be easier and easier to make the lev 14 gems since very few are leaving the ecconomy.

It's all good imo. There will be full time gem farmers/dealers.

As for the effort required for only a few more str points, it is certainly something an end game character would go for.

Note: we do not know how frequently gems drop. It could be all the time, like in d2. And, the millions of 1 second clicks would be spread out among thousands of noobs rolling up the smaller gems while you only deal in the bigger ones.

 

[Srikandi]

Re: 14 levels of gems?

I don't have any problem with there being stuff in the game that you can't reasonably hope to get You'd have the feeling you could keep going on forever, but you don't HAVE to.

 

[Drytchnath]

Re: 14 levels of gems?

Due to auto-stats I think level 14 gems will give a truly substantial boost to an attribute, like +50 or more. Otherwise it really wouldn't be worth the time and effort needed in order to combine so many freaking gems together.

Also, 19,500 level 5 gems is waaaaay too many. That's the kind of crap I'd expect to see in a grindtastic micro-transaction Korean MMO, not DiabloIII.

 

[sirroman]

Re: 14 levels of gems?

It should be easy for them to start with fewer gem levels and see how the economy handle it. And then, if they find it necessary, they could add some more in the expansion.

Heck, just make 50 gem levels in the game code and use only a handful at release, fixing the amount later and easily with an update, just like there's thousands of runewords in d2 but only a few are active.