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1.13c Frenzy Barb Guide

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by In the name of Zod, Jul 26, 2010.

  1. In the name of Zod

    In the name of Zod IncGamers Member

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    1.13c Frenzy Barb Guide

    [​IMG]
    by In The Name Of Zod

    A. Purpose

    I've often read threads asking for help about building frenzy barbs. Questions pop up like 'what items should I get?' amongst others. It would be nice to answer them one by one but I've got to admit that the repetition is just too much for me. So this exists.
    ________________________

    B. Contents

    • Resources
    • Why make a frenzy barb?
    • Figures
    • 20 frenzy barb tid bits
    • Abbreviations
    • Skills
    • Itemisation
    • Conclusion

    1. Resources

    It can be easy to confuse opinions with facts or worse facts with poorly sorted references. Its good to have numerous sources but if they all come from the same singular source then what is achieved. So on this note, I urge anyone reading this to test out what is written here.
    ________________________

    2. Why make a Frenzy Barb?

    The massive amount of health that Barb's acquire with each investment in vitality grant the barb 4 health per point, the highest of any class. While frenzed you not only benefit from an increase in your attack speed but also your run/walk speed. With frenzy active you will find that you always have a chance to run away when things get too ugly(safety +1).

    You are not stuck swinging your weapon a set number of times until you can move freely again(safety +1). There is no cool down between applications of frenzy, the skill is always ready for use. Its a very low mana skill (3 mana). Requires only 3 skills in total to become fully functionally synergised. Also if your mana is fully depleted from a mana burn then a barbarian will automatically resort to a normal attack so you can still leech life(safety +1).
    ________________________

    3. Figures Section

    You need to grasp Breakpoints to understand some of this.

    Code:
    [I]3a. Faster Hit Recovery Breakpoints[/I]
    Base (9 frames)
    [LIST]
    [*]007% FHR (8 Frames)
    [*]015% FHR (7 Frames)
    [*]027% FHR (6 Frames)
    [*]048% FHR (5 Frames)
    [*]086% FHR (4 Frames)
    [*]200% FHR (3 Frames)
    [/LIST]
    
    [I]3b. Barbarian Natural Resistances Skill[/I]
    [LIST]
    [*]lvl 1 = +12% to all resistance
    [*]lvl 2 = +21% [SIZE="1"](+9 from previous)[/SIZE]
    [*]lvl 3 = 28% [SIZE="1"](+7)[/SIZE]
    [*]lvl 4 = 35% [SIZE="1"](+7)[/SIZE]
    [*]lvl 5 = 40% [SIZE="1"](+5)[/SIZE]
    [*]lvl 6 = 44% [SIZE="1"](+4)[/SIZE]
    [*]lvl 7 = 47% [SIZE="1"](+3)[/SIZE]
    [*]lvl 8 = 49% [SIZE="1"](+2 till lvl 13)[/SIZE]
    [/LIST]
    
    [I]3c. /Players ? = Monster AR & ED%[/I]
    [LIST]
    [*]/Players 1 - 00.00%
    [*]/Players 2 - 06.25%
    [*]/Players 3 - 12.50%
    [*]/Players 4 - 18.75%
    [*]/Players 5 - 25.00%
    [*]/Players 6 - 31.25%
    [*]/Players 7 - 37.50%
    [*]/Players 8 - 43.75%
    [/LIST]
    
    [I]3d. /Players ? = +Monster HP & XP[/I]
    [LIST]
    [*]/Players 1 - 100%
    [*]/Players 2 - 150%
    [*]/Players 3 - 200%
    [*]/Players 4 - 250%
    [*]/Players 5 - 300%
    [*]/Players 6 - 350%
    [*]/Players 7 - 400%
    [*]/Players 8 - 450%
    [/LIST]
    
    ________________________​

    4. 20 Frenzy Barbarian Tid bits:

    1. Attack speed is calculated by 3 main factors:
      • The averaging of both weapon's base speeds.
      • Only the primary weapon's increased attack speed (IAS) is used.
      • Non-weapon IAS's are used.
    2. Weapon range only counts for the primary weapon, the second weapon's range always equals the primary weapon's range regardless.
    3. Primary weapons always swing first. Important for CTC's.
    4. The graphic for the primary weapon always appears in the barbarians right hand in-game view (the running jumping guy).
    5. The Primary weapon is the weapon that is equipped first until
    6. Whenever you switch weapons the primary weapon gets reset. The new primary weapon is the weapon in the weapon slot on the left hand side of the inventory page (above the glove equip slot).
    7. Deadly Strike (DS) and Critical Strike (CS) do not accumulate. If you have both then they will be calculated separately. If CS succeeds then DS is skipped. What I'm trying to say is they don't stack, you don't get *4 damage by having both.
    8. Crushing Blow (CB) is affected by any monsters physical resistances despite the fact that CB isn't calculated as physical damage (no leeching with CB). Since most enemies in hell have 10-40% physical damage reduction its a good idea to get something that reduces this. Although negative physical resistances will not increase CB past its base effectiveness.
    9. Try to keep any CTC's, DS, CS, open wounds (OW) mods off your weapons (boots, gloves, etc) so both swings get to use them.
    10. CS/DS is added at the very end of all damage calculations.
    11. CB is not actually physical damage so Iron Maiden will not reflect its damage.
    12. In the case of the berserk skill, CS is applied prior to changing a % of damage to magic.
    13. Double Swing is a mana free skill at level 9, useful against mana burn monsters.
    14. If you plan on using a Lawbringer [runeword] for its chance to cast (ctc) decrepify then the slowing effect created by the holy freeze from a merc will stack bringing almost any monsters attack and movement speed to a crawl.
    15. Ghostly monsters have 80% physical resistance, unique monsters with the stone skin mod gives them +50% physical resistance.
    16. Sanctuary aura ignores any positive physical resistance or immunity of undead, this is applied after decrepify and amplify damage.
    17. Only the provider of the sanctuary aura benefits from the negative physical resists to undead. I don't know why they call it an aura but that's how it works.
    18. Sanctuary aura always reduces undead physical resistances to exactly 0% regardless.
    19. You need to cast decrepify on a monster for CB to benefit from a monsters reduced physical resistance. Sanctuary will not help CB on undead.
    20. If you can get your physical resistance to 100% you will be immune to CB. This is because players use the same formula as monsters for calculating CB. Its considered a bug by the D2 community in general.
    ________________________

    5. Abbreviations used in this text

    These abbreviations appear commonly throughout the D2 community as well.

    CB - Crushing Blow
    LL or LS - Life Leech or Life Steal respectively
    ML or MS - Mana Leech or Mana Steal respectively
    CS - Critical Strike
    DS - Deadly Strike
    OW - Open Wounds
    CTC - Chance To Cast

    DR% - Damage Reduction (physical only and measured as percentile of damage reduced by).
    FHR - Faster Hit Recovery
    /P or /PLAYERS - the players setting used in singleplayer mode
    ED or ED% - Enhanced Defence
    AR - Attack Rating (base)
    AR% - Attack Rating boost of AR base (100% = double).
    HP - Hit Points (health)
    XP - Experience Points
    IAS - Increased Attack Speed
    Str - Strength
    Dex - Dexterity
    Req - Requirement
    Lvl - Level
    ________________________

    6. Skilling Up

    [​IMG]

    Just max Frenzy and its 2 synergies (double swing & taunt) as in image above, put at least 1 point into your choosen weapon mastery and 1-5 in natural resistances skills. It will depend on how much plus skills you have that will tell if you want to boost these skills further. The Item Find skill is useful for magic finding barbs, if you have one or two Blades of Ali Baba's you can equip them on your switch weapons slots just for horking super unique's and champion's in hell.

    You always have respec these days, 3 of them in fact so there is little point going into how to spend attribute points. Just get the gear on and kill stuff, and watch your health. Remember, points spent in strength will increase you ED% which means you can LL more so a few too many points in strength isn't a lost cause.​
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2010
  2. In the name of Zod

    In the name of Zod IncGamers Member

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    Re: 1.13c Frenzy Barb Guide

    [​IMG]

    Part 2 of 2
    ________________________

    [SIZE=+1]7. Itemisation[/SIZE]

    I've noticed that sometimes you will need to be logged in to see these images, I have no control over this.

    Not meant to be viewed at greater that 115% browser magnification.

    6a. Early game (level 1-31)

    Level 1-8 Twinking Gear
    [​IMG]

    Basic weapon & armor
    [​IMG]

    Notes on Level 1-8 Twinking Gear

    Hel's runes are very important early game to help get some nice level 1 items on. You can always use charms to boost your strength or dex as well, not that I'm suggesting this at this point. Large charms are the best for gaining extra strength and dexterity. I never put points into vitality until around level 10 and then sparingly at that, you have to get your strength up asap for barbs, rely more on your defense (more lower down)

    Equipping the Deaths Set
    [​IMG]
    Gemmed Gothic Plate and Great Helm incl Gore's
    [​IMG]

    Notes on equipping the deaths set
    You will need help equipping deaths, here is the help. The armor boost will make you less dependant on health through the earlier parts of the game. Note that to benefit from any defence you need to be walking. The +2 to leap on the Gore's will save you spending valuable skill points. Leap can be used to get through bars such as those found in the flayer dungeon & jail/catacomb levels.

    Deaths Disguise
    Images

    Deaths Disguise - with Hel'd War Sword
    [​IMG]

    Notes on Deaths Disguise

    I can't emphasis strongly enough what an "unbelievably godly set" this is. It can literally take you from Act I through to the beginning of Act IV without having to leave the game for more item replacements, that's 3 whole Act's. When its equipped at level 6 you will become a one-hit-kill-all machine until mid Act 2 . The (belt is the hardest part to come by. A bugged nightmare Andariel has some of the best odds of it dropping. Although you only need 2 pieces of this set to get the cold damage on the weapons so the belt is more a luxury.

    Elaboration on the Death's Disguise
    The physical damage of 10 - 25 makes this weapon formidable even before the set item bonuses are applied. It also means that you will benefit considerably from any life leech equipment you may have.

    Once 2 of the 3 set items are equipped everything changes with the introduction of the 25 - 75 cold damage. You will most definitely want to socket both swords with Hel runes in order to bring down the massive strength requirements for this weapon (or 'weapons' if you go with two). With this done your strength req = 57 and dex req = 36. This will reduce the amount of charms required to be able to equip them by character level (clvl) 6.

    6b. Mid-Game Items

    Gear used in conjunction with some of the Immortal Kings set
    [​IMG]

    Mid Level Twinking Gear (first instalment)
    [​IMG]

    Notes on Mid Level Twinking Gear
    With all the attribute points that have been poured into strength & vitality so far you will find it difficult to equip 2 honor's like these. This armor helps out with that large dex requirement while continuing to provide you with outstanding defence through the rest of normal. The rockstopper speaks for itself here and these Honors are simply the best mid level runewords that a frenzy barb can use. All you need to do is find 2x5-socket zweihanders - keep an eye out while baal running baal, best of luck.

    Mid Level Twinking Gear (second instalment)
    [​IMG]

    Notes on Mid Level Twinking Gear
    25% IAS on the gauntlets will probably take you up to around the 3 attacks per second breakpoint for frenzy now. Your goal being 5 attacks later with better weapons. If you can find a 15% ias jewel to go in the rockstopper you will likely reach the 4 attacks per second breakpoint.

    For the belt, the life leech helps a lot in hell due to the decreased effectiveness of LL so you need more sources. Getting your DR% up and above 30% should be a target, it just seems to make the difference at this point (It does for me). Later, when you equip Treachery you will benefit from the assassin 'Fade' skill which will improve your DR% by another 15% when active.


    6c.End game Items
    First Instalment of End Game Gear
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Treachery then Grief (Phase Blade)
    [​IMG]

    Notes on the first Instalment of End Game Gear
    This shouldn't be your only treachery, you will want a better one at sometime or another. Some levels later you will need some better items to help you through the rest of nightmare.

    Just remember the tips given in part 1 of this guide for equipping weapons effectively. Make sure the Lawbringer (pictured below) is in the off hand (non-primary weapon slot). Find your biggest fastest thumper and equip it in the primary weapon slot. These weapons (Oath & Grief) are my badass thumper's. Never tried an eBotd but people say there's little difference between them and Griefs.

    Second Instalment of End Game Gear
    [​IMG]
    Lawbringer and/or Oath
    [​IMG]

    Notes on the Second Instalment of End Game Gear
    Here's that all important Lawbringer. The decrep is nice but its not your real saviour, its the sanctuary aura + decrep that makes the difference. Sanctuary will strip away the physical resistance of all undead leaving them exposed to all the Critical & Deadly Strikes you can muster.

    The decrepify also has the nice touch of slowing the enemy down enough, this means you spend less time going into faster hit recovery (tick box here). The -50% to enemy damage from decrep is really -50% to enemy enhanced damage. So if they have 125% enhanced damage now they get 75% enhanced damage.

    If you are using a merc with holy freeze the slow from that will stack with the slow from decrep as well. Some people use a merc that can trigger decrep by equipping their mercs with a Reaper Toll (33% chance to cast decrep on striking). I prefer having more control over where decrep is cast although I've got to admit I haven't done a Reaper Toll merc.
    ________________________

    8. Conclusion

    That's right, there was no mention of amulets or rings. You'll just have to work that one out for yourself.

    Well I think that might be it for now, I'll probably come back and update this in the future. Keeping the maths out of it was the intention. Its based on my experience of playing this character some +20 times now. There are a number of other hidden benefits to playing a build with these items, you will just have to uncover them for yourself. Thanks for reading and I hope you enjoyed it.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2014
  3. allthejerretts

    allthejerretts IncGamers Member

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    Re: 1.13c Frenzy Barb Guide

    The 2 synergies double swing and howl, do you mean Taunt now howl?
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2010
  4. In the name of Zod

    In the name of Zod IncGamers Member

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    Re: 1.13c Frenzy Barb Guide

    Thanks allthejerretts, its been corrected.
     
  5. Crazy Runner Guy

    Crazy Runner Guy IncGamers Member

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    Re: 1.13c Frenzy Barb Guide

    Photos are great. There have been many, many threads and suggestions on low-level twinking gear, and I'll offer mine here:

    +27 max dmg mask (+45 @ clvl 18)
    +27 max dmg breast plate (+45 @ clvl 18)
    Death's belt/gloves (I never thought about hel'ing death's sword)
    Manald/Angelic rings
    Angelic ammy
    Hsarus Boots
    Pelta Lunata

    Act 2 Mercs get:
    Ethereal Bloodthief
    +27 max helm (once character hits 18)
    Twitchthroe
     
  6. nulio

    nulio IncGamers Member

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    Re: 1.13c Frenzy Barb Guide

    Great guide :)

    @allthejerretts: please edit your post and remove the giant quote :thumbup:
     
  7. Obdob

    Obdob IncGamers Member

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    Re: 1.13c Frenzy Barb Guide

    section 4
    "2. Weapon range only counts for the primary weapon, the second weapon's range always equals the primary weapon's range regardless."

    Where did you get this information? Afaik the secondary weapon's range needs to be equal-to, or greater-than that of the primary. If the secondary weapon is shorter, it won't hit the target unless the target is within its range.

    Also,
    "(the running jumping guy)." haha
     
  8. SnickerSnack

    SnickerSnack IncGamers Member

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    Re: 1.13c Frenzy Barb Guide

    You can't.

    Ali baba's, or "blades of ali baba". Also, "super unique's" is possessive, while "super uniques" is plural. Well, there seem to be a lot of grammar, spelling errors, and unclear wording. Maybe after you've edited for content and accuracy, you could edit for grammar and such, if that matters to you (though I think a guide should be well written). I'd be willing to do such editing if you want, but only after you've got any factual errors fixed, of course.

    One thing I wonder about in general, what does your guide offer that the guides in the barb forum don't? To be honest, the other guides seem to give more/better analysis and explanation. For example, you rightly point out that large charms are best for getting more strength, but you don't say why: large charms get up to 2.5 str per slot, while small and grand charms can only get 2. I think it's much better to explain everything, rather than just giving a list of tips.

    Your treatment of attack speed is somewhat lacking, I think. You could at least link to the german attack speed calculator and most especially, Onderduiker's thread on frenzy attack speed (since the german calc is wrong...ish). Point 1 in your list of 20 is clearly stated and to the point, though.

    ? This is like watching a episode of family guy and then finding out at the end that it was all a dream sequence.

    I hope I'm not being overly critical. I like the formatting, and it's nice to see a guide that recommends use of lowish to midish runewords that most guides don't mention. I think this could be a very good guide if you expanded it to be more comprehensive. Right now, it reads a bit like a Pat/Guard write up of a single character (I know you've played many frenziers, but for example item choices are presented in a somewhat linear, only-this-works fashion).
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2010
  9. In the name of Zod

    In the name of Zod IncGamers Member

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    Re: 1.13c Frenzy Barb Guide

    @Obdob: I'm pretty sure the the weapon range for the second weapon only matters for Double Swing. I'm checking it up today.

    @SnickerSnack:
    (20% DR)2xUp'd Crainte Vomir's
    (15%DR)Fade
    (28%DR)Ber'd perfect Vamp Gaze
    (38%DR)Ber'd shaftstop
    -------------
    101%DR

    I'll check my grammar again. I sincerely appreciate the help from everyone in fixing up these errors. It'll be updated again tomorrow. Thanks.
     
  10. SnickerSnack

    SnickerSnack IncGamers Member

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    Re: 1.13c Frenzy Barb Guide

    Physical damage reduction on characters and mercs is capped at 50%. But now I'm starting to doubt whether that cap applies to CB as well. Hmmmm. :scratchchin:

    Edit:
    About 20 minutes of searching turned up no indication that CB ignores the 50% cap on DR.

    :thumbup:


     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2010
  11. xxnothing

    xxnothing IncGamers Member

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    Re: 1.13c Frenzy Barb Guide

    For what it's worth I enjoyed the guide. It's not as in-depth as some others I've seen, but it was very easy to follow and I liked the pics in the Twinking Gear sections. :)
     
  12. In the name of Zod

    In the name of Zod IncGamers Member

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    Re: 1.13c Frenzy Barb Guide

    The crushing blow reference #1 (point 22) and reference #2.

    @SnickerSnack: But don't you find those other guides a bit boring. They all seem to say the same thing, or at least they start to after the 5th read. My favorite guides don't come from here anyhow (grim's is the best one ever written imo). I would have liked to have gone into weapon range too but it would have risked putting the readers attention at jeopardy. Just because something interests you and I doesn't always mean it the best thing to add sometimes. :)

    I'm planning on providing more links in the future, the guide will always be available in my blog where work on it will be updated constantly over time. This will be the last time I update the SPF version however. Updating 2 is a bit of a pain unfortunately. Not that you guys come last, I put you ahead of the barb forum. :wink:

    @xxnothing: Thanks

    I hope the pics loaded fast for everyone. They were as optimised as I could get them for slow connections. If there are people with dial up (or just slow connections) who find them a bit much please let me know.
     
  13. SnickerSnack

    SnickerSnack IncGamers Member

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    Re: 1.13c Frenzy Barb Guide

    Well, neither source claims to have actually tested it. It's probably true, but it'd be nice to have a reasonable claim to proof. (I don't have the modified dll right now, otherwise, I'd test it myself.)

    I don't find them boring at all, but as you say, just because something interests me doesn't mean it needs to be in every guide. Besides, those other guides are good for what they are and this one is good for what it is. It's well written, and serves it's purpose, but I guess it's just not my style.


     
  14. UnFrSaKn

    UnFrSaKn IncGamers Member

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    Re: 1.13c Frenzy Barb Guide

    I was interested in this guide, but the images on page 1 do not appear. I'm logged in. Are they still up, but not showing up?
     
  15. SnickerSnack

    SnickerSnack IncGamers Member

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    Re: 1.13c Frenzy Barb Guide

    I suspect that some of the links are broken as I don't see them either.


     
  16. purplelocust

    purplelocust IncGamers Member

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    Re: 1.13c Frenzy Barb Guide

    Hel-ing set gear is a good method of getting twink gear, particularly ones with big stat requirements. Hel never changes the level requirement and I've got collections of various Hel'd or -%req jewels in Death's and Sigon's items to avoid needing to invest strength early (or mule on a zillion strength charms), as well as some good low-level twinking uniques or socketed items filled with useful low-level requirement jewels.
     
  17. onderduiker

    onderduiker IncGamers Member

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    Re: 1.13c Frenzy Barb Guide

    As SnickerSnack has pointed out, any new Frenzy guide should really correct an error which has been present in every Frenzy guide I've ever read:

    This may be true for Double Swing and Throw, but it's only true for Frenzy when the primary weapon misses: when it hits (which is what we're trying to do as often as possible), the length of the remainder of the attack sequence is calculated using the other weapon's Increased Attack Speed, and WSMs of the two weapons swap positions when calculating average WSM. See Hammerman's quoted post in the Calculator Inaccuracy for Frenzy Attack Speed thread for more details, and consult the topic of the same name in the Amazon Basin's Technical Discussion forum.

    So TitanSeal's Attack Speed Calculator is currently only accurate when the primary weapon misses, or when both weapons have identical WSM and weapon IAS: for all other cases you need to download TitanSeal's script, a link to which can be found in post #33 of the Amazon Basin topic (although you need to register with inDiablo.de to download it). That post also contains the following revised formulae:

    This may not be entirely accurate when the average of the two WSMs isn't a whole number, though.

    I've just run some tests with a Dagger (rangeadder 0) applying cold damage and a Colossus Blade (rangeadder 2) applying poison damage to a stationary size 3 target (resulting in melee range 3 and 5 with the respective weapons).

    If a target is selected, the rangeadder of the weapon in the left inventory slot (above gloves) is used for both weapons regardless of whether or not it's primary: if the selected target is out of range, the rangeadder of the weapon above gloves determines how close the Barbarian moves to it before attacking. This applies to Frenzy, Double Swing and Normal Attack (which alternates between using the two weapons), as well as attacks like Concentrate which only use the primary weapon, even when this is equipped in the right inventory slot (above boots).

    If a target is not selected, then the lower rangeadder is used to determine how close you approach before you start attacking it, and applies to both weapons once you start attacking. Again, this applies to all attacks previously listed when using two weapons, regardless of which is primary or the inventory slots in which they're equipped.

    However, there were a few occasions when only the primary weapon's attacks hit, regardless of whether or not it had the higher rangeadder. I couldn't determine what caused this, but bear it in mind.

    I've tested this and it's true: DR >99% makes you immune to Crushing Blows (although this is only relevant when duelling or when being attacked by Blunderbores, who have 15% Chance of Crushing Blow in Nightmare and 25% Chance of Crushing Blow in Hell). Easily tested by using Bone Armour, Energy Shield or integer damage reduction (or a combination thereof) to negate physical attack damage (confirm for yourself that none of these affect Crushing Blow before applying DR %).


     
  18. RobbyD

    RobbyD IncGamers Member

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    Re: 1.13c Frenzy Barb Guide

    Quick question - is there any reason you can't do a pure Frenzy build like this with a Frezied Zealbarb build? Is there any variation on skill needed for the Zeal part, or does simply having a Passion weapon in the offhand do the trick?
     
  19. onderduiker

    onderduiker IncGamers Member

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    Re: 1.13c Frenzy Barb Guide

    There's no reason why you can't, although I'm not sure why you would: Frenzy's attack rate and velocity buff only lasts for 6 seconds, so it's not really practical to keep resetting its length (you might as well just keep using Frenzy).

    According to TitanSeal's attack speed calculator, a Barbarian using Zeal has maximum 4/9 attack rate, or an average of 5 frames per attack with the maximum 5 attacks at level >3... which is the same as Frenzy's maximum attack rate, only with less +% Damage and +% Attack Rating.

    Depending on the weapons equipped, Frenzy's attack rate buff may be redundant anyway: if you're equipping a Grief Phase Blade as primary weapon (at least if you use the Rune Word Mod) and a Passion Phase Blade as secondary, then according to the calculator only 72 IAS (including primary weapon IAS) is needed to reach maximum attack rate (so that's 32-42 off-weapon IAS with Grief).

    If you want to play a Barbarian Zealot for a new experience, then it's probably better to forget about Frenzy and invest points elsewhere: aside from a weapon Mastery and the usual Battle Orders, you'd have plenty of points to invest in Shout (which would also provide a synergy bonus to Passion's +1 Berserk), Iron Skin and possibly a few points in Increased Speed if the appeal of Frenzy was the increased movement speed.
     
  20. SnickerSnack

    SnickerSnack IncGamers Member

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    Re: 1.13c Frenzy Barb Guide

    No variation needed. The benefit of the frenzied zealbarb is that you can spend some points in other skills, but you don't have to. I don't just recommend you make a frenzied zeal barb, I command it. :) I assume you've read mareek's threads on the subject.

    It's not at all impractical. In fact, I like using more than one attack. It's the reason I made a frenzied zealbarb. Though it may not be fun for everyone.

    Well, not everyone has a Grief PB... One of the benefits of the frenzied zeal barb is that you don't really need any good ias gear if you can get a few points of +skills (if you have Arreat's Face, you were going to get those points anyway, for example).

    With an Oath Small Crescent, no-frenzy zeal needs 125 ias to catch up to a frenzied zeal......

    I think the whole point of a frenzied zealot is that it frees up item slots. Sure, you can get a high rate zeal other ways, but if you don't want to, then frenzy does the trick.

    I don't think that Shout and Iron Skin add much at all to a zeal barb, and increased speed doesn't add nearly as much speed as frenzy (albeit in short bursts, though that's often enough). The "problem" with the zeal barb build is that it's complete with ~50 points. Frenzy can be used to drastically shore up ias, change gear needs, and get ridiculous speed from time to time.


     

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