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1.13 patch, what does it tell us about diablo 3?

Discussion in 'Diablo 3 General Discussion' started by NASE, Dec 15, 2009.

  1. NASE

    NASE Diabloii.Net Member

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    1.13 patch, what does it tell us about diablo 3?

    I'm a bit surprised there isn't such a thread already. Or have I missed it?


    Anyway, as we all know by now, there is a new patch for diablo 2. And it seems likely that the general ideas of diablo 3 will be reflected in this new patch. Eventually, these ideas should live in the company.
    One example are the respects that are clearly in the new patch. Though I believe we can learn more about it.

    Just for general notice, the patch notes.
    “We traveled for an eternity…†- Marius

    Travel no longer my friends - the Diablo II 1.13 Public Test Realm is LIVE!

    Q: How do I begin testing on the PTR?
    A: When you start Diablo II change your Battle.net gateway to “ClassicBetaâ€. When you log in the 1.13 patch will be applied to your game and you can begin testing the changes made in the patch. Since it’s a new realm you’ll need to create a new account.

    Q: What if I want to play the normal game again?
    A: Simply choose any of the other (non-PTR) gateways. Your game will be reverted to version 1.12 and you’ll be able to play on the live realms as normal.

    Q: Where are my characters?
    A: The PTR realm is separate from the live realms so your current characters aren’t carried over. You’ll need to create a new character to begin testing. But, cheats are enabled and you may use the following cheats by typing them into chat:

    Gold # - Will provide the amount of gold specified Level # - Will increase your level to the number specified Waypoints 1 - Will activate all waypoints. You must still reach an act before that act’s waypoints will be unlocked with this cheat.

    Q: What happens to my characters once the PTR testing period ends?
    A: They remain on the PTR realm to be removed once the test ends. Characters on the PTR realm won’t transfer to the normal realms.

    Q: How long with the PTR run for?
    A: As long as we deem necessary to ensure the patch and changes are solid.

    Q: Where can I give feedback and what kind of feedback do you want?
    A: All 1.13 PTR feedback and bug reports should ONLY be posted in the Diablo II Test Realm Forum here: http://forums.battle.net/board.html?forumId=20601702&sid=3000

    * All post should have a subject line that clearly describes the bug or feedback being given
    * Use the search feature to ensure a thread doesn’t already exist before posting
    * When reporting a bug include as much information as you can, including steps to reproduce it if possible
    * Any non-constructive posts may be deleted and the poster’s privilege to post revoked
    * This is a chance for you to ensure the 1.13 patch includes changes and balance tweaks that you think would lead to a better overall experience. Getting the information to us in a clear and logical way helps us understand your view and makes it easier for us to collect feedback for any potential updates to the 1.13 patch before release.


    —————————————————————————————————————
    - Patch 1.13
    —————————————————————————————————————

    A new Mystery has been revealed!

    - Players of Hell Difficulty Realm games are hereby warned once again, that a series of new and challenging tests await you! The answer lies within Diablo’s Bosses, which span across the world from the Den of Evil to the Throne of Destruction…


    Major Bugs

    * Fixed an item dupe bug.
    * Video improvements for Intel Mac machines with OS 10.5 or greater.

    Minor Bugs

    * Uber Mephisto now checks for both Uber Baal and Uber Diablo to be killed before spawning summoned minions (Before he would only check for Uber Baal).
    * The game will no longer stop and then restart the game music after the window loses and then regains focus.
    * Fixed an issue where the game window would minimize when running in windowed mode when it lost focus.
    * Fixed an issue where the game window wouldn’t center properly when it was created.

    Specific changes/improvements

    * Respecialization is now possible! Completing the ‘Den of Evil’ quest will now additionally reward 1 free respec which can be saved. Players who have already completed this quest should receive 1 free respec in Hell difficulty.
    * Increased the drop rate of high runes.
    * Support for blit scaling in windowed mode. The game can now be maximized to the largest 4:3 resolution supported (hooray widescreen users).
    * Some rare drop items now have an orange color. i.e. Runes and items required for Uber Tristam.
    * Modified the gold bank limit to be a flat cap not bound by level.
    * Nightmare/Hell WilloWisps champions/uniques have had their damage greatly reduced.
    * Removed the requirements to create a hardcore character.
    * Greatly reduced the explosion damage dealt by Fire Enchanted monsters.
    * Uber Mephisto and Uber Baal’s summoned minions no longer give experience.
    * Removed Oblivion Knight’s Iron Maiden curse.
    * Hellfire Torch Firestorm proc rate has been reduced to 5%.
    * Users can now toggle the display of text over the Health and Mana globes by clicking on the bottom area of each orb.
    * Updated two Act 5 mercenary names to Klar and Tryneus.
    * When creating a single player game, pressing the ‘Enter’ key now automatically creates a Hell difficulty game if possible.
    * When creating a game, each difficulty button is now bound to a unique key: Normal ‘R’, Nightmare ‘N’, and Hell ‘H’.
    * The ‘Enter Chat’ Button in the battle.net waiting room is now bound to the ‘Enter’ key.
    * Added the windows system buttons to the game window (MIN, MAX, CLOSE).
    * Added new command line parameter ‘-nofixaspect’ which allows users to not fix the aspect ratio to 4:3 when maximizing windowed mode. This lets the game ‘stretch’ to fill your monitor.
    * Added support for ‘-sndbkg’ command line switch. This enables sound in background.
    * Added support for ‘-nosound’, ‘-window’, and ‘-windowed’ command line options.

    Revised Skill balance for Player Character classes

    Amazon

    * Immolation Arrow - Increased radius of Explosion effect by 33% and Immolation effect by 50%.
    * Immolation Arrow - Explosion effect damage increased by 20%.
    * Immolation Arrow - Increased base duration by 33%.

    Assassin

    * Shadow Master - Increased resistance range per point from 5-80 to 5-90.

    Barbarian

    * Whirlwind - Reduced initial mana cost by 50%.
    * Masteries - Changed critical strike chance from 0-25 to 0-35.

    Paladin

    * Blessed Hammer - No longer ignores resistances of undead and demons.

    Druid

    * Werebear - Damage bonus increased by 15% across all ranks.
    * Werebear - Increased health by 25% and armor by 1% per point.
    * Shockwave - Synergy from Maul adds 5% damage per point.

    Necromancer

    * Blood Golem - Removed negative shared life effect (player no longer loses life when golem takes damage).
    * Corpse Explosion - Increased base damage dealt from 60% - 100% to 70% - 120% of corpses health.
    * Poison Nova - Increased base damage by 15%.

    Sorceress

    * Fire Wall - Synergy receives 1% damage per point of Inferno and Blaze and 4% per point of Warmth.
    * Blaze - Synergy receives 2% damage per point of Firewall and 4% per point of Warmth.
    * Hydra - Increased base damage by 15% per rank.
    * Hydra - Increased base speed of Hydra projectile.
    * Hydra - Reduced cooldown by 25%.
    * Lightning Mastery - Reduced overall effect by 15%.


    Lets have a look at some of the systems implemented.

    Respecs:
    Diablo 2 now has full and unlimited respects. No gold sink, no limited level based respecs. And getting the respecs is laughable easy (well, the first 3 anyway).
    Will we see this in diablo 3? Are there reason to assume that the diablo 3 system won't work in diablo 2?

    Balance shifts:
    The meele builds seem to be severely buffed. The barbarian as a whole is now more powerful due to the increase in critical strike on the mastery. The werebear has been buffed and might get up to phase with the other melee characters.
    And a lot of their problems have been remove. No more IM nor corpse explosion thing. Hence, they seem much more powerful.
    That while ranged character don't really seem to have gotten all that much.

    increased drop rates for high runes:
    The drop rate has been increased by 4 or less. Meaning that they are still not to be found for the normal player. 4 times 0 still isn't much.
    I thought they didn't like this extreme unfindable items. Then why are they still as rare as they are? Making them more common while nerving the power of the runewords can't be that hard.


    It seems like many of the ideas on these forums about how diablo 3 should be aren't to be found in this new patch. Does this mean we are all wrong?
     
  2. Ed from Russia

    Ed from Russia Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: 1.13 patch, what does it tell us about diablo 3?

    My main conclusion from 1.13 is that Blizzard is working very hard on D3 (and Starcraft, and WoW, and ...). They probably gave the new D2 patch to an intern to keep the fans happy.
     
  3. Rash

    Rash Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: 1.13 patch, what does it tell us about diablo 3?

    I agree. Its mainly to keep players interested in the game. The spicing up of the Hydra spell was long overdue though. I know my first Hydra sorc and how dissapointed i were how weak that spell was. And i thought this had to be good at level 30...
     
  4. Runestar

    Runestar Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: 1.13 patch, what does it tell us about diablo 3?

    I would argue that this simply makes melee fun again, rather than more powerful. No more having to worry about being 1-shotted or unduly penalized because you actually need to be close to your enemies.
     
  5. Popeye

    Popeye Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: 1.13 patch, what does it tell us about diablo 3?

    I don't know how much of D3 can be predictable from this patch, lets remember that these are different games, and that lots of the things that were "corrected" with de 1.13 patch are errors of a different game, and so of another balance system.
    For example, the hint we can use from the melee characters being buffed is probably determined only by the monsters we have to fight in that game, and not from a conception of what melee characters "have to be" in every game, including D3
     
  6. NASE

    NASE Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: 1.13 patch, what does it tell us about diablo 3?

    The general idea - here on the forums anyway - is to substitute those one hit kills with a more general all-round danger. However, I fail to see where the all-round danger is in the chaos sanctuary for decent equipped characters.

    So eventhough they did solve that problem, they didn't give any danger to replace it.
    Is this what we will see in diablo 3 too?


    They have chosen to make a dangerous - wrongly dangerous - place into a walk in the park. Seems like a strange tactic.



     
  7. Moonfrost

    Moonfrost Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: 1.13 patch, what does it tell us about diablo 3?

    Making the place more dangerous to "make up" for the IM nerf would kind of defeat the purpose of nerfing it in the first place. That is not how nerfs work.

    Not that I agree with your assessment of the difficulty, but as long as it's a "walk in the park" for all classes, and not just a few: mission accomplished.


     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2009
  8. Runestar

    Runestar Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: 1.13 patch, what does it tell us about diablo 3?

    I have never played hell before, but are the foes there really so easy that it was only those 1-hit-kill monsters that posed any sort of threat?

    Or is your character simply too optimised?

    However, I do agree with NASE that the difficulty should still be there in the form of a constantly but somewhat moderately draining hp bar (representing attacks coming in from all sides). This at least still gives you a window of opportunity to react to any incoming danger (even if it means quitting), but you still can't afford to slacken and charge headlong into any fight.

    But at least the difficulty is less skewed in favour of certain classes.
     
  9. Moonfrost

    Moonfrost Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: 1.13 patch, what does it tell us about diablo 3?

    No, they can be quite difficult even for a very well-geared character, which means a non-twinked, first-time player will generally have a rough time. Not only do the enemies deal more damage; their resistances go up as well (e.g. they all get 50% physical dmg resist), meaning it takes you more time to kill them, forcing you to suffer more damage yourself in return.

    It's the main reason why pumping vitality rather than str/dex is such a good idea (and why most people ended up doing), since a dead character deals 0 damage anyway. I fondly remember my 300 HP bowazon dying in 1-2 hits from pretty much every enemy, despite having pretty much the best bowazon gear in the game.
     
  10. Leugi

    Leugi Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: 1.13 patch, what does it tell us about diablo 3?

    You kind of have a point... But I believe is not some random D3 feature adding to D2 and ignoring player's suggestions as you quite believe...

    The respecs, and the balance things, and drop rates (which btw is not 4*0 but actually something like 4*0.001, so it's still an improvement) are good things that should be experimented with before actually putting them forever in D3.

    So, to see if respecs would be a good system they can easily put it on a D2 patch, if it works quite well there, then it can be appliable on D3... It's just some experimentation on some of the features they plan adding...
     
  11. Kiroptus

    Kiroptus Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: 1.13 patch, what does it tell us about diablo 3?

    I think it tells nothing about their stance on Diablo 3. Patch 1.13 was just a hopeless attempt of bringing some life into an old and dying game.

    Whatever are their design directions for Diablo 3, thats something that is already very well defined among their game designers and patch 1.13 has little to do with it considering how eternally broken and unbalanced diablo 2 has always been it was just a small and unnoticiable fix to the game's issues.

    The IM nerf was long overdue, it had no sense that melee should suffer so much when casters had nothing to fear (dont bring that ridiculously weak blood mana curse), it was just imbalanced and its removal was very well deserved.

    Respecs are already in diablo 3 and would serve its purpose just fine on Diablo 2 considering how easy it is to level a character. Any d2 player who is in favor of the return of cowlevel how it used to be in 1.09 but are against respecs is a hypocrite, cowlevels were pretty much a respec. Its just a feature that was pretty much always in the game, just in form of a relatively easy and fast leveling, this new way is just more convenient.

    Balance shifts? Nothing really changed, casters are still way better than any other melee build avaliable, the fact that they removed a curse from a certain place doesnt change the balance that much.

    Overall patch 1.13 is just a little gift to a dying game, I cant see any relation to what it has to do with a newly designed game.
     
  12. NASE

    NASE Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: 1.13 patch, what does it tell us about diablo 3?

    You need to a make a distinction between those that have decent gear and those that don't have decent gear. Those without good gear will have a very hard time. It's almost impossible with many builds.

    Those that do have good gear have a much easier time. For those with average gear - average based on what the game offers, not on what people posses - it's quite easy. And those with better gear can't go anywhere without danger.

    And I believe this last groups is the most important group in diablo 2. Those that keep playing (and play smart) quickly get to a point where things aren't all that hard anymore.


    But even from that, we can try to draw conclusions. If they deliberately made it a "walk in the park" for all classes, what tells us this on the different between the classes and on the difficulty in general.

    Nofi, but bowazon are largely player skill based too. Back in the days, I could nearly go anywhere where there aren't gloams. And my gear is far from perfect.



     
  13. Moonfrost

    Moonfrost Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: 1.13 patch, what does it tell us about diablo 3?

    As I said, I don't agree with the notion that it actually is a walk in the park - especially for non-twinked characters - but as long as all classes face the same difficulty level then the nerf did what it was meant to do, regardless of whether or not players feel the difficulty level is appropriate. The game has to be balanced around new players because that's what all players are when they beat Hell first time.

    Absolutely. I'm not saying I was killed by every other enemy, just that they could deal enough damage to kill me in 1-2 hits, assuming they managed to hit me. Still, being one-shot by extra strong archers that didn't even appear on my screen didn't exactly spell awesome entertainment. :)


     
  14. magicianDK

    magicianDK Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: 1.13 patch, what does it tell us about diablo 3?

    Does this FINALLY mean that Hardcore characters can play WITHOUT being TP PK'ed? Or...killed by glitches in Nil's temple, or gloams or what not?
     
  15. cacophony

    cacophony Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: 1.13 patch, what does it tell us about diablo 3?

    Not yet. Still TPPK glitches reported on official PTR forums. Gloams don't hit as hard, but if you are focus fired at the wrong time, you might be in trouble. I think they nerfed Nil's temple, too, but I haven't played a melee build on the PTR yet.

    As for this thread, some of the things you see in 1.13 are more validation for their changes in D3; respecs were a no-brainer for years, and manual stats are tedious at best. Most of the stuff they are putting in they learned in other games, including WoW (where they learned some lessons from D2, natch).


     
  16. LordOfStrategy

    LordOfStrategy Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: 1.13 patch, what does it tell us about diablo 3?

    I think what they're doing is try to balance an old game. The most we'll learn out of this patch about D3 is that it'll have two barbarians named Klar and Tryneus :p
     
  17. Turnip

    Turnip Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: 1.13 patch, what does it tell us about diablo 3?

    It shows blizzard has no concept of character balance, and that they cater to carebears... thats about it.

    I was expecting new levels, and harder dungeons, maybe an increased hell difficulty; not some nerfs to monster and renaming of some mercs.
     
  18. qOcOp

    qOcOp Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: 1.13 patch, what does it tell us about diablo 3?

    This. Seriously, it took them so long to change merc names, take out IM, make game easier, and change a few spells? Wtf man.


     
  19. Chukcharcoales

    Chukcharcoales Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: 1.13 patch, what does it tell us about diablo 3?

    More like 0.000000000001 to 0.000000000004. An increase of 0.000000000003 is nothing; it might as well be zero.


     
  20. Runestar

    Runestar Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: 1.13 patch, what does it tell us about diablo 3?

    My guess is that they initially had a lot of ideas, and it took much time to decide which to include or reject. For all we know, perhaps they ended up debating over hundreds/thousands of possibilities, and the 1.13 patch is the end result of many months of brainstorming.

    I don't think they sat down knowing straight away what to implement in said patch (in which case, programming it should take no more than a few days). It was literally a blank slate.

    I know they don't have a lot to show for the time we have been waiting. Maybe a short article explaining why the patch turned out the way it did could be in order? I would earnestly like to believe the D2 designers know something we don't.

    Could it be that we are the ones overlooking something? :scratchchin:
     

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