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1.07 or 1.13 Harlequin Crest???

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by GooberGrape, Jun 10, 2015.

  1. GooberGrape

    GooberGrape IncGamers Member

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    Thanks to the 2015 RFO, I am now the owner of a 1.13d Cham Rune. It took me my entire career to see one of these things, so I only get one shot at this: 1.07 or 1.13 Harlequin Crest??? Primary use will be a telezerker MF barb.

    For reference:

    1.07
    Harlequin Crest
    Shako
    Defense: 284
    Required Strength: 50
    Required Level: 62
    Indestructible
    Item Version: Expansion
    Item Level: 87
    +100% Enhanced Defense
    Increase Maximum Life 40%
    50% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items
    +2 to All Skills

    1.13
    Defense: 98-141 (varies)
    Required Level: 62
    Required Strength: 50
    Durability: 12
    + (1.5 Per Character Level) 1-148 To Life (Based On Character Level)
    + (1.5 Per Character Level) 1-148 To Mana (Based On Character Level)
    Damage Reduced By 10%
    50% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items
    +2 To All Attributes
    +2 To All Skills
     
  2. maareek

    maareek IncGamers Member

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    I don't have a 1.07 Harley so the issue hasn't really crossed my mind before, but the first question that would come to me would be: is 40% life or 10% damage reduction better. Since the 40% bonus is additive with BO, its effectiveness is a little lessened on a barb, but I still wouldn't be surprised if you get more expected survivability out of it than the %DR, though it all depends on the rest of your build (namely how many hit points you have before all bonuses). Of course I assume the major usage of the item would be on a Pit running Zerker, meaning elemental effects will be the most dangerous thing for you, anyway.

    To my mind the real decision point would be the mana. If you need the bump in mana from the 1.10+ version, then it's definitely the superior option.

    Personally I would Cham a 1.10+ Harley before a 1.07 one just because the 1.10+ version seems more versatile. The mana makes a big difference on some characters (even though it's not BO-able) and the fewer raw hitpoints a character has, the more important the 10%DR becomes. (That said I'm still on the fence over whether I'll Cham a Harley or an Andariel's first...)
     
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  3. pharphis

    pharphis IncGamers Site Pal

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    On the point that 40% life is "less" useful compared to characters without BO... I would also point out that 10% DR is less useful in the situations that are most dangerous than usual - under amp dmg. That's only removing 10% of the -100% physical resistance...

    I agree that mana is great and so might be a tipping point for usefulness depending on the char.
     
  4. maareek

    maareek IncGamers Member

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    Yeah, very good point, and it's compounded by the fact that a zerker is basically guaranteed to get amped by every unique that spawns cursed. It's like they say, "Zerkin' ain't easy."
     
  5. Gripphon

    Gripphon IncGamers Member

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    That is very hard question. I have high roll beta CtA, so on my characters life is not really a priority while mana is, so even though I have both 1.13 and 1.07 Shakos Chamed, I use 1.13 one most of the times cause of mana bonus on characters who either have low mana (zerker), merc doesn't use Insight (Infinity stick) or characters who desperately need mana. 1.07 Shako is for everything else, when I use merc with Insight on character whose mana is not too low to get extra life, but those situations are very rare (sorcs could be exception cause they have warmth).

    Now as for telezerker barb... it all depends on on your playstyle and how comfortable you feel with your mana. If you don't know yet, try some alternative setup to find out what mana amount you are comfortable about. 1.07 Shako will offer you higher life, or if you like more Strength points which will increase your damage by a little bit, while 1.13 Shako offers nice mana bonus. I aimed for 600+ mana on my zerker, with that amount if I get hit by mana burn, I don't have to drink potion every single time if I want to continue porting after that which means I have to pay less attention to potions since I drink them less, and mana burn is not that rare to face in Pit. I do think strategy like that will buy you more time than using 1.07 Shako to get neglectable increase in damage while losing time in collecting potions more than you would with 1.13 Shako.

    For such reasoning which is true for myself at least, I do vote as 1.13 Shako as superior option for zerker barb to have. But on the other hand, if you are comfortable with like 400 mana and don't mind losing time on potions, then 1.07 Shako is great option to go for, especially if you don't have beta CtA, so that Shako will boost good amount of life on other characters too. I mean all you have to decide is how important is mana to you on your characters in general. As for me, in like 8 out of 10 times I use 1.13 Chamed Shako, but I do have beta CtA... Yes, your CtA will boost less mana too, so mana might be even more valuable to you than it is to me on non barb characters.
     
  6. GooberGrape

    GooberGrape IncGamers Member

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    Thank you all for kind advice. I agree that the 10% DR is basically meaningless, since I'm almost always amped. It might be noticeable if I rolled a Stormshield in the offhand, but then again SS is a solid piece of gear by itself.

    I did consider Andariels as well, but that would mean wearing the Troll Belt for CBF instead of Goldwrap. To be honest that's not a bad trade, BO-able life/mana for 10% IAS. The MF% is negligible considering I could Ist the Shako. Still it seems a shame to put your rarest item on the derpmerc.
     
  7. krischan

    krischan Europe Trade Moderator

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    IMO, if you don't have a Zod rune yet, socketing something with Cham is not a good idea. I think that a Zod is more useful than two Cham runes, as obtaining a BotD weapon is certainly a greater improvement than yet another way to achieve CBF. It would be better to look for another Cham instead, so you can upgrade it in case you don't find Zod until then.
     
  8. Cyrax

    Cyrax IncGamers Member

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    Don't make this any more difficult then it needs to be. Find another cham and socket both. ;)

    I disagree with krischan on the zod though. Found a zod myself and made BotD out of it. Finding a char that could really use it provided to be much more difficult than i thought. Most things with elemental dam will benefit more from merc with inifinity/insight. Most things with physical dam will profit more from the decrep of reapers. So you already got the majority of merc weapons right there. That leaves a select group of merc's that can use it. And ofc some chars that can use it as well, but for them too there's a good chance there's a better option out there.
     
  9. maareek

    maareek IncGamers Member

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    I definitely can't say I agree with Zod being that useful, in fact in my opinion Zod has practically no use whatsoever. Before I would cube Chams into Zod I would need to have Chamed a Harley, an Andariel's, made a 1-handed Doom, made a 2-handed Doom, made a Hand of Justice, made a Pride, and probably Chamed a Griffon's and that's before I would consider it, and I still would probably lean towards hanging on to the Cham in case I wanted to put it in something else like a crazy circlet or a Stealskull for a bowzon or even something silly. It's not even clear to me that I would cube two Chams into a Zod if I had a 3-socket ethereal Tomb Reaver and 2 40%ed/15ias jewels in my stashes waiting for it, assuming we're not talking about a first and second Cham.

    And, again for me, BotD is probably at least fifth and most likely much lower on my list of uses for Zods, well past "save for a crazy rare" on the list, in fact, just because with access to the RWM BotD doesn't actually provide anything. Depending on the situation it's almost (and I really only say "almost" because there's probably a corner-case I'm not thinking of; I don't know a situation where BotD comes out on top) always out-damaged by Death or Grief on a character and I can't come up with a situation where I would want it as the weapon on a merc. Maybe it would be good on a barb merc, but that's not the kind of thing I would rush into doing.

    Of course for someone playing Vanilla BotD is more enticing, but I'm still not sure it's enticing enough to go throwing away two Cham runes on. I mean those things are rare ... assuming your name isn't Gripphon, at least. I don't play Vanilla so I won't claim to be able to put myself in that mind frame, but I'd definitely have to weigh the opportunity cost of two Chams and the availability of lesser but still quite good Vanilla weapons against having a BotD.

    Of course everybody has different opinions on this kind of thing, and that's just mine, but yeah, I'm not a Zod fan.
     
  10. Codoh

    Codoh IncGamers Member

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    I'm keeping my eye on this thread. Keep em comming. Got 3 Jahs, 1 ber, 1 sur and plenty of runes below that. Was aiming at a BOTD but this thread might change my mind. Some other runewords like Beast also are on my radar sooner or later. Might be sooner.
     
  11. nulio

    nulio IncGamers Member

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    I agree that BotD is not that useful is you have RWM installed. In 1h weapons nothing beats Grief. For 2h weapons Death is really good. For any Barbarian 2x 1h weapons beats a 2h weapon, unless you want the extra range for some reason (I made a BotD for PvP because I don't ATMA Bug, I wanted to play with the extra range and I didn't want to use 2x PB).
     
  12. Gripphon

    Gripphon IncGamers Member

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    Just to share info, I borrower insane rolled botd GPA, tested it in both pvm and pvp, and its not even funny how inferior it is compared to Grief, even simple phase blade, not to mention atma-bugged stuff. 1H botd is even more inferior. That might not be true for vanilla though, Grief doesn't exist there, and probably is not true for 2h builds where Death rocks the world anyway.

    I would cube 2 Chams to Zod only if I go atma-bug something I can't with Death runeword, no any other case whatsoever. Cham is simply too good to be wasted to be cubed to Zod like that to create weapon that is easily inferior to much cheaper options in most cases (vanilla excluded).
     
  13. GooberGrape

    GooberGrape IncGamers Member

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    My first Zod goes into an eth 3os Tomb Reaver for lolwolf awesomeness, that was decided long ago. Don't want to blow 2x Cham for that one narrow use weapon. BotD isn't even on my radar anymore thanks to RWM, there's a half dozen better options and most of them start with Grief.
     
  14. Naturallog

    Naturallog IncGamers Member

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    BotD isn't quite useless. I know I want a BotD GPA for a shapeshift Druid. I can't think of a reason to use any other runeword. The IAS is great, high damage, already has mana and life leech. No crushing blow, but switching to Death isn't such a good idea since it has no IAS. Grief is a possibility, but I don't really want to use a shield and 2h Grief is a little silly.

    If you don't like druids though, I don't know where you could work BotD into an item build.
     
  15. Pb_pal

    Pb_pal IncGamers Member

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    blatantly taken from here.
     
  16. GooberGrape

    GooberGrape IncGamers Member

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    Thank you everyone for your input, and here we go:

    Code:
    Harlequin Crest
    Shako
    Defense: 117
    Durability: 12 of 12
    Required Level: 67
    Required Strength: 50
    Fingerprint: 0x3d874dfa
    Item Level: 87
    Version: Expansion 1.10+
    +2 to All Skills
    All Stats +2
    +135 to Life (Based on Character Level)
    +135 to Mana (Based on Character Level)
    Damage Reduced by 10%
    Cannot Be Frozen
    50% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items
    1 Sockets (1 used)
    Socketed: Cham Rune
    Cham Rune
    Required Level: 67
    Version: Expansion 1.10+
    Weapons: Freezes target +3Armor: Cannot Be FrozenShields: Cannot Be Frozen 
    Let the zerking begin.
     
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