Yet Another “Something is too easy in D3” thread

Bashiok has continued his week-long defense of various new Diablo III “features” that many fans object to. Today it’s the “overly-convenient” topic, as brought up by Grug.

I thought Blizzard was pushing for the Waypoint system in Diablo 3. You start off with an empty inventory as you enter a dungeon, then try to make it as far as you can on limited resources and inventory space. I thought the whole point of the Cube was to break down items so they could be carried more easily. Once you make it to the DiabloWikiwaypoint, only then can you return to town for repairs, selling items, and stashing valuables.

But now, Blizzard has the DiabloWikiCauldron of Jordan, which will instantly turn any item into gold, just like if you had sold it. Combined with the DiabloWikiStone of Recall for trips back to town, the pacing has been removed in exchange for an endless Grind. How does a player feel accomplishment for finishing a dungeon if they could escape whenever they had a peaceful moment? Why would they even need to go back to town except for repairs and to deposit the few items they want to keep?

I know Blizzard is all about the casual audience, and they want “a game you can play for 10 minutes during a coffee break”, but It’s not like players lose everything if they quit in the middle of the dungeon. They come back safe in town and can sell and repair easily before another venture into the dungeon.

Suddenly I wonder about the frequency of waypoints. Will there be one every 5 minutes so even the super-casual players can get through areas?
Bashiok: This [Cauldron of Jordan] has been a feature for a very long time. We previously had the ability to sell items as a scroll you’d use to sell the item, but really we wanted the decision to salvage or sell to be a choice and not limited by you having a scroll or not.

Combined with the stone of recall for trips back to town, the pacing has been removed in exchange for an endless Grind. How does a player feel accomplishment for finishing a dungeon if they could escape whenever they had a peaceful moment? Why would they even need to go back to town except for repairs and to deposit the few items they want to keep?
Bashiok: They could ‘escape’ whenever they wanted before. It was just a hike back to town, and if that’s what they wanted to do, they’d do it – portal or not. Say you’re out of health potions and know you’re going to need some because a super tough boss is coming up that always murders you, you’re more likely to trek it back to town than throw yourself against it and risk multiple durability losses. Really all it does is make it less annoying to get back to town when you need to, but, getting back to where you were is still going to be a chore. Waypoints are spread out enough where if you peace out near a boss you’re going to have a decent walk ahead of you to get back to where you were, which is why it’s best to enter a dungeon prepared than to rely on the stone of recall to jump back to town midway through.

My 6 year old brother will be competitive at this game.
Bashiok: It’s a co-op game. What exactly are you expecting people to compete over?

And I’m guessing you didn’t play Diablo II.

We seem to get a different flavor of the same argument every day, now. We recently learned about a lto of big changes to the game — changes from how stuff worked in D2, and more relevantly, changes from how D3 functioned during most its development cycle. In every case, these changes are excused or exalted as simplifying the gameplay, a development that seems to usually be a good thing in the eyes of D3’s developers, and is always a good thing in the eyes of the D3’s marketers. (No, I’m not going to put in that image. I can resist! Just this once.)

The forum clashes come about because many members of the Diablo community do not see eye to eye on these feature changes, and especially not with Blizzard’s constant, “X is good b/c it makes the game easier for noobs to understand/play” excuse/justification.

I’m sure this will die down; fans will get tired of complaining, those who are really upset will leave the community, Bashiok will stop responding to the arguments, or all of the above. And as with so many other things about the game, the proof will lie in the pudding. Which we’re still waiting to devour.

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34 thoughts on “Yet Another “Something is too easy in D3” thread

  1. Since Bashiok is being so helpful as to explain and defend every topic of the recent D3 news, I’m tempted to make a post asking about hardcore news. Should I?

    Or has this already been answered?
    Will we still have a “ghost” of the hardcore character that died in our menus? Will that count as a character slot online, and in time I’ll have to remove it, or not?
    I liked keeping them there as reminders of the mistakes and glorious times of old.

  2. If people are complaining about D3 being “too easy” then have some balls and challenge yourself! I think it was Bashiok that already explained that there are some builds that will NOT be viable…see if you can figure out how to make them work. You don’t have to follow the easy path that Blizzard really is laying out for us. Try a naked run, or something of that sort. I know it’s not fun to self-gimp, but if everything is “too easy” then make it harder if that’s what you want, it’s always an option.

  3. Are we really complaining that we don’t get to carry around a stupid tome of town portal?  That selling items without returning to town is the downfall of all things Diablo?  Wasn’t torchlights pet thing widely praised in these parts?
    I love how the original poster complains about Diablo turning into a grind.  Like that isn’t what happened in diablo 2.  He is concerned close together way points will some how make the game too casual friendly?
    I really wonder if some of these people have ever played Diablo 2.

    • Completely agree. The “pacing” of the game never had anything to do with going to town. If this guy is so concerned about the “grind” of repetitive monster killing than he can always go visit his artisans every 30 minutes. Meanwhile I’ll be in the dungeon, killin stuff.

  4. Seems like bashiok live in the care bear’s world : no people dont compete in d2, they don’t try to get the best stuff, they don’t rush on every ladder, etc…
    did HE really played d2 ?

  5. The cauldrons are fine I loved the Torchlight send pet to get rid of junk and now we have 2 options.   My only complaint continues to be the Skill system since I feel that the free skills will not lead to much in the way of replay value.  Since once you level a toon there is little reason to level another of the same class.  But the Runestones might change that opinion but I highly doubt it.   At least I will be rolling more HC characters and they seem exempt from all the annoyances of d3 (ie rerolling and RMT AH)

  6. OMG! I never heard Bashiok being a dick before. I guess it’s a lot of stress defending idiocracy but have someone calm correct your inputs.
    The guy is saying that the game now seem like an easy grind where the focus lies in selling items on the AH. Anything inbetween should be a cake walk.
    Bashiok repliest with “And I’m guessing you didn’t play Diablo II.” because he’s assumtion is based on a given option to teleport back to town and restack while that option is bases upon the given options so if you remove that it would be more of a strategy to prepare before it….now they ignore that and let everyone slide in, get loot and sell, making Blizzard some cash.
    Phuck! Cmon man.
    The game can be fun, no one knows yet but with replies like this he informally let us know that the game stinks of boredom. Don’t defend function with hostile and personal attacks, that is sure to shine thru.

  7. People really don’t understand the underlying goal behind Blizzard’s DIII…

    Ther overworld, lore, game mechanics, etc. is only the tip of the iceberg.

    Get out of the narrow mindset that Blizzard intentionally attempting to cater to casual gamers. No, Blizzard doesn’t hate you – and No, Blizzard isn’t favoring nubs.

    Players will be generating thousands, if not millions of items per day. The faster players generate items, the higher the chances of items landing a spot in the Auction House. The point of this game is to milk the players at the fastest possible way in the most painless, effortless, and quickest way possible.

    Only then will Blizzard make profit.

    Why are you guys complaining? When I played DII, the lore, story, and rpg elements died the minute I finished Hell. Afterwards, it was all about mindless MF’ing and grinds.

    Blizzard is making it easier for the players – they profit, we get our gear. Friggen genius and efficient!

    • If it’s “genius”, then why have they been rabidly fighting it for over ten years?

      • The only thing Blizzard has been fighting for 10 years is 3rd party vendors selling virtual items for RM.  Don’t worry, they’ll still be fighting them in D3, and the RMAH is an extremely effective measure against them.

      • Because we all enjoy pour water into the sea?
        We fight it for ten years, we will still fight it for ten more. Nothing will change.

    • so they are essentially creating a giant rat wheel? 

      we keep it spinning doing mindless grinds in the most efficient way possible, and they get the $ 

      scary way to look at it .

  8. I think Blizzard are following this moto; “You know you’ve achieved perfection in design, not when you have nothing more to add, but when you have nothing more to take away.”

    They’re smoothing the gameplay to remove everything that was unessential or aggravating. It makes for an incredibly streamlined product. There will be a lot of good from this, but I also feel like the game might lose some of its charm when it detaches itself from its imperfection.

  9. Overall I’m happy with what Blizzard are saying. I especially like the Auction house solution to tp sites. D2 was spoilt by both the item seller and forum gold trade sites, that and the relentless spam bots hawking their wares.

  10. In d2 you could cast a tp while in battle… not sure why people are making such a fuss about being able to go back into town while you are safe. I always had a full tome of tps in d2

  11. People are SERIOUSLY complaining that you can sell without going back to town?  Proves people will complain about anything I guess but that’s pretty pathetic.

    • Why is it pathetic? Because you don’t care about it?
      What if that really, honestly matters to someone?

      • But if they want they can go back to town to sell items with the use of the stone of recall just like they could back in D2.  They have given players the option to stay out if they want.  So, they are giving us both options yet people still complain.

        • But if you go and read the thread, Grug eventually agrees with you, because he gets the information he was asking for.
          What, precisely, is so bad about this?

          Eh, you’re probably talking about the troll in the thread that he also replied to. Well, Bashiok loves trolls, so what are you going to do.

      • The primary reason it’s pathetic is the pettiness of the argument.  “I don’t want to use this feature, so please remove it for everyone”.  That is pathetic.  If you don’t want to use functionality, THEN DON’T USE IT.  You still have stone of recall, and towns, and vendors.  Go use them if that’s what fits your playstyle.  Also, complaining that cauldron of jordan makes the game “too easy” is ridiculous.  There’s nothing harder about recalling to town, selling, and returning to the dungeon.  It’s 30 seconds of inconvenience to do what is an extremely boring aspect of the game… getting rid of worthless loot.  I can’t stand people so selfish that they demand the game be altered to force everyone to play as they do, especially when altering it would inconvenience everyone else.
        Also, Blizzard’s reasoning is spot on.  If you could salvage an item on the fly, but not sell it, people like me who want to spend our play time actually playing diablo… not the inventory game… would be forced to salvage.  There would be no choice.  Cauldron of Jordan has to exist in order to give players a legitimate option between gold and materials for their items.  I’m hoping in the future a portable stash and repair hammer make their way to the UI as well to eliminate the need for town trips all together.  The option should always be there.

  12. “How does a player feel accomplishment for finishing a dungeon if they could escape whenever they had a peaceful moment?”

  13. Isn’t this also the first time Blizz said the the Stone of Recall is only a one way ticket to town and you still need to rely  on waypoints to get back into the action? That seems to balance it out enough for me…
    I guess that could be exploited in co-op where you can “warp” straight to your buddy, so you go back to town, ask your friend to wait outside and warp back to him when you’re done and then he could do the same… But that just seems like too much of a hassle…

    • That was my reading of his reply, and as far as I know it’s the first mention. I think they said that waypoints are going to be pretty close together (my impression is that there will be about 2x as many in D3). But still, it’s something. Marginally better than the previous mechanic.

  14. i quite liked it when i had to go back to town to unload all my stuff. that was some of the appeal of Diablo 1 to me, was finding an item and hearing him say “i gotta pawn some of this stuff” or “too much baggage”. Then i was like awwww man HMMM which one do i keep?!?

    was a bit different in D2, but i still knew how fast my inventory piled up, and i knew eventually i’d need to make a trip back to town. i feel like it’s almost necessary in an adventuring game, where you’d need to go back and re-supply. and it just feels more real knowing that you can’t carry or take care of everything in the world. Plus it was nice seeing the actual town once in a while and the townsfolk and having to run around and get healed by farah and go buy scrolls from what’s his face.

    i played torchlight where you could make your pet run to town and sell items for you, and i really didn’t like it too much. it just seemed too convenient for the player. i don’t feel that going into town every once in a while will take away at all from the continuity or fun of the game, i always saw it as part of the game and necessary to advance. you enter a new area, man it’s tough and you fight off new monsters and enter new places and you feel tense, and then oh man i need more health pots and want to ask cain to ID all this stuff.. pop back to town and then i’d feel relaxed and could take a breather and when i was done sorting out all the stuff, i could get back in it.

    • I agree, and I actually see not going to town as breaking continuity for me. I like going back to town, and I’ll do it in D3 regardless of the cauldon.

  15. The old portal system provided some important functions to the player, but had little restriction and was therefore abused heavily.

    If you impose restrictions on the system to negate the abuse you end up loosing or hurtigt the important functions. So they split up some of those important functions instead.

    I don’t see the argument for the new system – wich imposes restrictions to make combat more challenging – is catering to kids just because you don’t have to run through town to clear out your inventory.

    The crap this game has taken from the start, even from people who don’t play the series, is pretty sad. The community is an important part of improving the game, but we need to actually play it before we can give some real feedback. So let’s wait and see where all these new directions takes the series, and not demand someone to be burned at the stake everytime they announce some changes.

  16. I’m getting a wee bit fed up with the overtly opinionated posts and their tone here. Sarcasm is good and funny ofcourse, if it is justified. Now, alot of the tr00 fanbois will think it is, but I dare to say that most disagree. So to have it shoved in your face then when you’re just looking for news is tiresome. Now tell me, what exactly is wrong with trying to make sure entry barriers for new people aren’t staggering? People that may one day become valued members of the community. So, for your own best interest, can it with the elitism because these noobs that you look down upon might just be this site’s next year subscribers.

    happy to help out

  17. So does anyone remember what Bash said about it being a big decision to leave town? Dangerous undertaking, need to be prepared, etc? Does any of that still apply?

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