Wyatt on Changes to Legacy of Nightmares Set on PTR

Are your pitchforks ready? Wyatt Cheng has posted about changes to the “no set” set Legacy of Nightmares that are being made on the PTR with bonus damage being deduced from 800% to 100%.

Hi everyone,

I wanted to pop in and let everyone know that our next PTR patch is changing the bonus damage from Legacy of Nightmares (aka the new “no set” set) from the current 800% to 100%. Please form an orderly queue for pitchforks on the left.

One of the things that we use the Public Test Realm for is to test ideas out—sometimes even crazy ideas. In our original images and communication, we had listed the bonus at a decidedly not-crazy 75%. But in the spirit of crazy ideas, we went live with 800% to give us a chance to gather data at radically different values and, eventually, find the value that’s best for the greatest number of our players. We need a lot of creative players testing the limits and the best way we could accomplish this was to turn it way overboard. Of course, drastic changes like this are inherent to what a PTR is used for, and players need to be prepared for these outcomes.

So why 100%? Well consider the way greater rifts scale. Every greater rift tier the monsters have 17% more health than the previous. If we were to lower the amount from 800% to say, 700%, this is basically equivalent to dropping by a single greater rift tier. One look at Legacy of Nightmares on PTR will show that this isn’t nearly enough. Even dropping from 800%=>400% only represents a change of 4-5 Greater Rift tiers – such is the nature of exponential growth (4.41 GR tiers to be exact because 1.17^4.41 = ~2). The reduction to 100% represents about 13 Greater Rift tiers in raw damage. Once you take into account further optimization and exploration that will happen this seems like the appropriate amount for LoN to come down.

We don’t want Legacy of Nightmares to become required for top-tier builds. We want it to be a viable option among many. We think Legacy of Nightmares is really going to shine in allowing lots of build variety for “fun” builds. The last few patch cycles have seen a massive number of builds emerge that are focused on activities other than pushing Greater Rifts. We’ve seen creative uses for In-Geom, a resurgence of builds that incorporate Sage’s set, the use of Manajuma’s to run around as an Angry Chicken and many others. It is becoming increasingly clear to everybody that items and builds are not just about what can clear the highest rift possible. What is good for speed runs? What’s good for public games? Or at the end of the day—what do YOU think is FUN? The hope for Legacy of Nightmares is that it will open up space to allow players to explore lots of Torment X-viable builds that play differently than the status quo. We hope to see you invent something of your own that you know might not be the best in the world, but rocks in public games or is a style of play you can call your own.

So, I want to call on you, the brave PTR tester, to continue to experiment alongside us and find the most fun, most powerful builds and help make the Legacy of Nightmares the best it can be. Thanks for your willingness to work alongside us in this whole crazy process.

He was then asked:

Btw, hypothetically speaking, would you consider changing other items/skills, to allow Legacy of Nightmares to become better balanced across the board?

As it currently stands each class gets a different proportion of it’s power from the 6-pc sets vs. complementary legendaries. The classes performing the best with LoN right now are the ones who draw the largest proportion of power from the orange items vs green. We have talked about shifting the damage for the “set-oriented builds” which, if done properly, would allow LoN benefit more classes and builds since it will always be tuned around the high water mark. Unfortunately these types of adjustments need to take a back seat to trying to get all 24 existing sets to a good place, which already has enormous complexity as it is so I can’t imagine we will realistically be able to do much of this reallocation of power among the 6-pc sets.
Tagged As: , , | Categories: Blue Posts


You're not logged in. Register or login to post a comment.
  1. "Argh! Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!"Well, thats disappointing but not really surprising. 800% WAS crazy high. it would dominate over all the set-sets. I'm still going to use it over the Focus-Restraint in my not-Natalya's-strafe build 🙂

  2. I've been testing on the PTR and 800% was crazy high. The problem is 100% is likely too low. What I find disappointing is the fact they he is sticking to the plan that sets are for GRs and LoN is for "fun T10 only builds". That sucks. If it ends up being a value like 200% or 250% then it might be able to compete (for wizards). The issue is that that may make it OP for other classes.

    • It seems like it might be decent with a full set of really good ancient legendaries, but now it's definitely garbage with just two or three ancients.

  3. this thing is a great solution for people to break free of your precious 6pc sets blizzard. don't you over-nerf it you bastards.

  4. I really liked the idea of this jewelry set change. I pretty much hate all the current wizard sets and the idea in general that they only buff "specific" skills or things. I hate being pigeon holed. I hate being forced to play a certain way. That said, I think the 800% to 100% change is too drastic and expect them to tweak it up just a bit before the end test cycle in typical blizzard fashion. Very disappointed in Wyatt's remarks regarding the target power level of LoN. I would prefer for this set to be able to compete with the best sets at the highest levels. Will be interesting to see how it plays out. I know these rings will be some of my go to items regardless.

  5. same as the ik set on ptr first was 500% then they nerfed it to 100% and then later changed it to 250%..i think they will do something similar here because 100% is way too low but 800% was also a bit too high lol but its a ptr so ofc nobody would expect that to hit live game.

  6. “oh no, they’re having fun. Let’s make it less fun…”

  7. They should allow the LoN to grant a half bonus per non-ancient legendary.

  8. 100% is definitely too low for wizards. A 4 piece Delsere’s set gives a 2000% damage boost. A 6 piece Firebird’s gives 3000%. So ignoring all skills, other set bonuses and bells and whistles, you would need 500% damage per item lost just to break even.

    • Firebird doesn’t increase damage by 3000%. It only causes your targets to take a stacking dot that eventually makes them take 3000% weapon damage per second. That’s not even remotely the same thing.
      Delsere does increase damage by 2000%, but only on targets affected by slow time. As long as you keep mobs consistently in the slow time bubble Delsere will result in more damage per second. Legacy has no such limitations though.

  9. Keeping monsters, and your allies for that matter, in time bubbles is actually pretty easy, especially in the cave tile sets that everyone hates. Anyway the point I’d like to make is Wyatt Cheng’s argument is only about what you gain. He ignores what you lose. Whether a set gives you stacking, reduced cool downs, experience, health, recovery, speed, all rune effects or whatever, you are faced with throwing away a lot of bells and whistles to gain damage. Legendaries can’t replace them all. If they could, nobody would be using sets. So I concur with Timesink up there that 200-250% is more realistic.

Comments are closed.