Where did my bags go?


Some fans raised some questions about the missing bags you can buy for your shared DiabloWikistash. In patch 10 we can now only have 3 bags and not 5 as before. So Bashiok gave a long and interesting answer.


Diablo 3 Stash ChangedWe reevaluated average character and account storage space requirements, and found it necessary to ensure we could handle what we anticipate will be a large amount of data very quickly after release.

Diablo III has both the benefit and disadvantage of having completely random items. Pretty much everything can roll up different affixes, if not a range of its benefits. That’s obviously great because the item hunt is what it’s all about, more randomization means you can keep chasing that perfect item, but that means the amount of data needed to describe an item is much, much larger than say, a World of Warcraft item, which is static and only needs a unique number to identify it. For example: http://www.wowhead.com/item=51003 that number there at the end is that item’s unique number. That’s all we need to store to identify that item no matter where it is. A Diablo III item first has to say the base item, then each individual affix that it rolled up, then the ranges of each variable, and if it has any sockets. And we have to think about everywhere an item can be, an item on the ground is still an item, and so is an item on the auction house.

We obviously have room to grow if our projections are incorrect, or we just find that we eventually have the space. World of Warcraft definitely grew over the years, and that storage space didn’t appear out of nowhere (although it does seem rather magical at times). We find three tabs to be plenty for at least the initial release of the game though. Not counting the items you’re wearing (assuming they’re the best you have), and assuming worst case scenario of nothing but 2-slot items, you’d be able to hold 405 swords per region. That’s a lot. We don’t expect people to be storing 405 swords… hopefully ever, because that might indicate you have an obsession with swords, but at the very least there should be enough storage to start and then we can continue to evaluate as we go.

I can see how this will stir up some angry fans and item hoarders, traders or those whose account has the full 10 characters to store for. 3 bags is in my opinion way too little especially when we have DiabloWikirunestones and gems to store.

Or maybe we won’t have skill runes to store, and that’s part of the big, still-secret runestone system reworking. Preserving runestones, but removing the item spam element?

In the image above you’ll see a comparison of the Stash from patch 9 and the latest stash and as well as removed tabs the ‘Appearance’ option is also now gone. This allowed you to view the contents of your stash as a particular class – useful if you had lots of class-specific items so it would ‘X Out’ anything that class couldn’t use.

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  1. welcome back mule-accounts  >.<
     
    the big stash was one of the best things they had in d3…

    • Yes, but now they’re $60 mule accounts.
       
      A big stash would be great, and it’s total BS they pin this on storage issues. I broke down the math on this months ago. Basically, a few gigabytes would hold everything. If you’re feeling frisky, you can search the forums for my post.

      • Yes, the limit of ten characters per account is getting stupider by the minute.

        Now they’ve definitely brought back the need for mule characters in addition to everything else. People already thought five stash pages for ten characters was way too few, so they cut it by 40%? Now you can’t even devote a page to each class.

    • will the AH become the new shared stash ?

      • Although fanboys love to give away their money to Blizzard I don’t think they will be crazy enough to spend 10 cents to store a single item for 2 days.
         
        I know what Blizzard is thinking by doing that: “Hey bro! I noticed you need moar stash space. How about this promotion? Pay us 9.99 montly and you can have 3 extra tabs in your stash.”

        • Actually, I assume Blizzard will be analyzing how storage space affects RMAH utilization. I imagine, not having a large amount of space will entice more players to sell something that is valuable that they do not have a current use for. If it turns out that storage space does affect RMAH profit in this way, I expect Blizzard to be right on top of this.

          • How could I have missed that one?  Thank you for making me dislike Blizz even more.  I wonder how much storage the (eventual) emulators will have?  I also wonder if Blizzard has some metric to tell when they have gone too far, and their reputation starts taking a serious hit.

  2. Don’t forget that some items stack now, that didn’t stack in Diablo 2. 3 Bags SHOULD be enough for the first months at least!  😀

  3. Heh, I wonder what Bashiok is talking about. In D2 (and all other games with unique affix items that need to be stored) they just store the BaseItemId and a 32-bit Seed. Then they can generate the affixes each time the character is loaded just like those items were generated to begin with. Maybe they have more requirements design-wise than I know about, maybe gems/enchants/whatnot make it worthwhile or maybe they favour speed vs space on their database but it’s an odd choice in my eyes.

    Too bad they shrunk the max number of bags. :/

    • That can’t be true. There was a Hero Editor for D2 which let you edit the items in your character’s inventory. It would be very hard to generate the correct seed for a given set of affixes and stats.

      Assuming, of course, that single player uses the same item representation as Battle.net. I cannot see why not, unless it was patched after release.

      • It would only be hard if the seed to affix function was one way (like MD5 hashing). If instead it was bi-directional, there’s no problem.

  4. 3 bags is not much even if gems stack as they do. I can with no sweat max out 3 bags in the beta, one bag for crafting materials, rings, scrolls and such. Then have one bag for stashed gear that I use for different tasks like Magic Find and Gold Find.

  5. Well, you guys need to take into account Mule characters…. Which there will be certainly alot of. With 10 character slots, nothing is stopping you to hoard items on alts. Also, I think we need to keep in mind that they want to prepare* for the amount of data influx coming in to their servers at release…. The key word “Release”..
     
    Am I the only one reading between the lines here hehe? More tabs can always be added on later, thats no problem, but does this mean they are getting set up for release…. Q1 PLZ BLIZZ 😉

    • Agree.
       
      first the Bnet changes and now this…      Q1!!

    •  
      If they where just trying to limit the initial number of items in a stash they could have just greyed out 2 tabs and have them unlock at lvl 60 (or one at 60 and one after finishing Inferno)…
       
       

  6. absolutely terrible.
     
    first it was unlimited(i think?) characters changed to 10, and now this..
     
    Inarius, i bet.. pay or fuckoff.. sad

  7. 1 extra bag slot, 5 dolla…

  8. Referring to Diablo 3 is a bit misleading. The items are the same with D2, the difference is with WoW but he makes it sound like Diablo 3 has this kind of special storage requirement.

  9. I call BS on the storage issues. We’re in the age of terabyte HDs and storage space needed for items is just a few bytes.
    This is simply yet another change meant to boost RMAH trading.

    • was just about to say that, say an item take 500 bytes, i think thats much more than needed for an item, a 1 tb harddrive could hold 274877906 items
       
      thats 274 million items, on 1 drive..
      blizzard probably use harddrives like that to wipe their asses with…
       
      they could easily set up a few servers in each region to hold much more than 5 bags if they wanted, and it wouldnt cost much in blizzard standards.

      edit: not only to boost AH income, but to sell more space later

    • That seems like the sad, sad truth…  😥

  10. Wow, so now they also removing slots??? This goes worse and worse, bad dream. Wake me up please. Idd Storage issues are the WORST excuse ever nowdays. They just want to have something extra for expansions (like they decide with Mystic)

  11. You get a 4th and 5h slot when buying the expansions.

  12. Maybe this is why they develop the game so slowly, that code shit takes up too much space.

  13. Blizzard’s being stupid on this one, 3 bags on a game that focus primarily on collecting loot? Who are they kidding here? I can max that out easily and I don’t even consider myself a hoader.
     
    Just……WTF!?!?

  14. I can almost guarantee you they will expand it, but they can’t go back the other way. It’s the typical rule of “measure twice cut once” when crafting something (thats IRL for those of you that love to misinterpret).
    While they are going to create more code if people mule I can see the reasoning behind it however I strongly disagree with it because it’s not a solution, it’s just moving the problem to another area.
    SIGN OF RELEASE.

  15. OK blizzard challenge accepted. on my way to collect swords..

  16. I like:
    Swords
    Axes
    Maces
    B.armor
    Headhear
    Gloves
    Belts
    Shouldpads
    Boots
    And to some extent… I like pants.

    So I can have ~40 of each not considering different item sized in inventory/stash

    40 of each is not bad, not bad at all actually, its a lot. But I also like rings, amus, gems runestones etc and what if/when they decide 1 bag is enough and 2 for paid DLC? I guess its not to late to cut more things from the game tho, to make room. If only the character limit was doubled, not only for item storage purposes mind you…

  17. i can see blizzard starting a cash shop selling bags……. and pay every month to keep it. Reason: storage on our server cost money.

  18. This doesn’t really concern me honestly.  I would only normally have one, maybe two extra sets of gear per character anyway.  I will only have five characters at most per setting (SC/HC) and they have different stashes so that doesn’t interfere with each other at all.  Considering the salvaging system in this game I highly doubt I’m going to be hoarding anything outside of sets, and I have a feeling there will be achievements involved in collecting them so even those I won’t need once I have the set (assuming the achievement thing is true of course).  Diablo 2 always gave me huge issues with storage space since I wanted to collect everything I could, but I just don’t see that happening in this game honestly.  I really hope uniques and sets get an achievement so that we can just look through and see which items are checked off and which aren’t, that would more than satisfy my OCD need to collect everything and would give me the ability to salvage things without guilt, which would in turn free up my storage immensely.

  19. can you use the AH as a mule ?

    put your extra stuff in there and list for 1 000 000 000 gold

    no one will buy it, and if they do, would you really care ?

    how long do items stay in the AH if they aren’t bought ?

    • You can, but like I said in the first page who would spend US$0.15 to store a single item for only 2 days? (subject to change of course, but Blizzard will charge players to list their items, so its not a good idea to use the RMAH as a stash).

  20. I’m currently having no inventory issues in the beta seeing as I haven’t finished the first page of bags so I’m not sweating this too much.  I could see it being a problem later when I’m collecting runes and gems and everything possibly however.  But I’m not going to freak out about it until I have the game in my hands and know for sure that it’s an issue.

  21. They’ll probably up it in the expansions.

  22. money money money…

  23. You have to wonder if they removed the Mystic to save item storage space 😀 After all it would potentially be another modifier to each item saved.

    In any case the new inventory/stash space feels way too small. And as always storage seems like a terrible excuse for limiting your game.

    Also as others have stated, if they are actually afraid of too much storage space being used :S, then keep the last stash slots locked until Inferno mode or something, were a lot of players will have stopped playing before they reach it.

    Edit: I guess this also means we will never see random +stats on runes. Imagine all the kilobytes that would take!
    🙁

  24. One clear case of BS explanation, which make only some sense at a first glance.

  25. Being that things do stack and more than likely you’ll only be keeping the best items on your character, that amount of storage doesn’t sound so bad.  If you drop something awesome for another class…then just move it to the shared and transfer it. If you think the item will sell then you can just move it to the AH. With gold being in such a high demand as I expect it to be, I don’t see why you would fill up that amount of space unless you were just grabbing up items without deciding what to do with them.

  26. This is horrible. That’s less space than we got in D2. What the ever-loving hell are they thinking?

  27. what happened to the blizzard that wanted us to never have to delete a character or never have to create a mule…neither of those is true now:

  28. Yes, I might have an unhealthy obsession with swords, but that doesn’t make it okay for Blizzard to tell me how many swords is too much! >:|

  29. I swear to fucking god if they start charging extra bag space not long after release i’m never ever going to buy a Blizzard game again. FFS, i’m getting fed up with their shit.

  30. This reeks of cutting stuff to bring it back in the expansion… so dumb.

  31. The Diablo 3 we were promised in 2008-2010 is going to finally be in our hands — in 2018, when Diablo 3XX is finally released.

  32. so when does the boycott diablo 3 campaign start?

  33. Good trolling, Bashiok!
    If we keep 405 swords, we can’t take any loot anymore…

    So, if you want to keep your character stash free (it’s a logical choice imo), you’ll have only 210 spaces / 105 swords (the shared stash) to keep :

    – armors, gloves, belts, helmets, shoes, pants, shoulder armors, rings, amulets, weapons
    – Runes (at least 5 but probably more)
    – Gems (56 different ones)
    – Specific items for your characters
    – Specific items for your companions

    It will be difficult.

  34. Hmmmm let’s think about the numbers for this…

    -Assume an initial playerbase of 10 million players (per zone) – a sizable number just following release I’d say.
    -Next assume a rather large 1 kB of data per item.  This is pretty sure to be a large overestimate leaving plenty of room for error. 
    -Storing one item for all of those players would be 10 billion bytes or just 10 GB.  1000 items would total just 10 TB.  My spare HDD in my computer could store 100 items for the entire American player base… surely Blizzard’s servers are not lacking this kind of data storage.

    I suspect something else might be up with this change.  Someone else mentioned encouraging RMTs which sadly is the only legitimate reason I could see for making this change…

  35. If they remove dropped runes I’m not sure I can handle more fail regarding the game :/
    Having some sort of storage specially for runes would be great though.

  36. Ha ha ha wtf just looking at my gomule stashes not even counting my characters items i have over 4000 items in diablo 2 my uniques stash is alone over 1400 items. blizzzards patetic low storage space is not even a piss in the sea its a tiny dust particle in the universe

    • Gotta agree. This isn’t even counting grails. It’s ridiculous.

      It’s like they forgot they have an auction house. Sure, I may not intend on using that piece of chest armor, but I may be holding on to it with the intentions of selling at a high point in the market. Along with my 400 swords. The blues do sure like their misdirection in hyperbole as a logical defense, though, so who am I to argue?

      Here’s an idea: Let’s make a game that we admit is based around items. And then let’s give them incredibly limited space to hold the items.

  37. Bashiok can’t seriously believe in the garbage the devs feed him, can he?  I know it’s his job to turn around and make it seem like their latest change/removal of a feature is somehow revolutionary and suddenly a completely great idea…. but man he’s gotta have remorse or something.  He can’t be typing this garbage with a straight face.

  38. If anything should be cut it’s Bashiok and his pathetic attempts to defend decisions like this one.

  39. I don’t know how many of you are going to do this, but I will be stashing every set/unique I came across, plus anything that might net me a nice profit on the AH. Without any concrete info about the final version of rune/gem system, that alone will take more than 3 bags?

  40. I would stash most unique and set items I found as well, except some very crappy ones maybe. Wouldnt stash stuff for RMAH as i dont expect to use it, but that only means the stash will fill up even more as I wont get rid of any of the stuff I collect.
     
    I guess I wont now…

  41. OMG do they really think we are THAT stupid? Data storage issues? Seriously? SERIOUSLY? 

    It reeks of a decision meant to support the RMAH, microtransactions and expansion packs. Bashiok is lying and he knows it.

    THIS GAME IS GOING HELLGATE FASTER THAN I CAN KEEP UP WITH!

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