Weapon Damage Ruins Diablo 3?

Just for looks?

Just for looks?

A fan made an interesting argument against Weapon Damage in the B.net forums, creating a incredibly Battle.net-esque thread (everyone calling everyone else stupid) and got shut down by a Blue. Despite that, I thought the OP’s original concept was worth debate, so let’s take a look.

Weapon Damage Ruins Diablo 3?

The core problem(s) of D3

Weapon damage and RNG.

Weapon damage -> gameplay revolves around items -> item dependency -> contradicts the very nature and lore of Nephalem’s power (which comes from within/birthright).
RNG -> gameplay revolves around luck -> players with better luck get to the top, players with terrible luck stay at the bottom.

Weapon damage + RNG = Diablo 3.

This game was poorly made from the beginning and because of weapon damage, we may never see it improve into a more enjoyable way. It’s futile to post any more suggestions on this forum, since the core mechanics of this game would never be fixed/changed.

It’s the gameplay (and may be social interaction too) that matters, not graphic or big numbers. That’s why so many ‘old’ games still have their places today.
And there are fanboys who keep on reporting us for speaking the truth! :)))) Anu to that!

GG, Blizzard.
Grimiku: Locking this thread since it’s gotten pretty off-topic.

Not to be all B.net myself, but my first reaction to the OP’s post was to think, “That’s the dumbest complaint ever.” My second thought was, “Wow, someone’s had a really hard time gambling an ancient weapon.” But that was invidious of me, since the issue of weapon damage is worth evaluating.

First off, anyone who thinks this is a new issue in Diablo 3 must be new to the series, since weapon damage was always the most important gear stat in Diablo 1 and Diablo 2, with one exception. Mages didn’t need it. Wizards in D1 and Sorcs/Necros in D2 didn’t care about their weapon damage (with some exceptions, such as D1 Sorc vs. Immunes) and what made their damage was their spell levels, casting speed, damage buffs, -resistance debuffs on monsters, etc.

That system had pros and cons. It was kind of cool that the classes has very different gear goals, but mostly not having weapon damage matter made things easier for mages, since it made their item game easier, and also let mages use weapons purely for +Magic Find or +skill bonuses in ways that other classes couldn’t. This unfair imbalance was one of the main reasons the D3 devs cited for changing spell damage in Diablo 3 to stem from weapon damage.

Mages in D2 aside, a lot of players agree with the OP that weapon damage is *too* important. This argument has been around since D3v when everyone knew a weapon without a socket was useless (the devs obviously agreed, hence DiabloWikienchanting and DiabloWikiGifts added in RoS). In more recent days we’ve seen the same complaints that Ancient weapons are required to succeed, which players say is unfair to builds that require an unusual weapon, where the odds of finding it ancient are way too low.

What’s the alternative, though? Imagine a Diablo 3 where weapons don’t have damage, or all weapons have damage in roughly the same narrow range, or some spells/skills don’t factor weapon damage into their effect. Would that make the game better? It would make gearing somewhat easier, since players could pick weapons purely for the legendary affix. But wouldn’t that also take a lot out of the item game? And wouldn’t it just increase the importance/value of getting the maximum possible Crit, Crit Damage, CDR, Mainstat, etc, on all of your other gear?

What do you guys think should about weapon damage? Unchanged from the current system? Flattened so it’s less important? Removed entirely? How would you replace that aspect of the item game, if you made such a change?

Tagged As: | Categories: Blue Posts, Diablo 3


You're not logged in. Register or login to post a comment.
  1. Well, I don’t like HUGE NUMBERS. But it’s not as simple as it would seem. I don’t expect to find Ancient Fury of the Vanished Peak during my lifetime, so I don’t care about Ancients.

  2. what an nagger , you idiots keep on bashing D3 do you.
    don’t like it don’t play if you don’t want big nummbers go play hello kitti or pong
    when do you isiots gonna understand that d3 is not the same as d2 and is another setting , djeeez

    and no i’m not a blizzard fan boy

  3. “Wizards in D1 and Sorcs/Necros in D2”

    Really Flux? Tut tut.

  4. I remember first hearing about everything in Diablo 3 being tied to weapon damage. I was pretty let down by it. Never gave it much thought afterwards, but now that this guy has brought it up; yes, it does kinda suck. It is another factor that makes items the most important part of your character.

    Now that I think of it; the importance of weapon damage is the same thing as not being able to put 1 to 20 points in a skill, or the fact that you can change skills on whim. It makes your character less and less important.

    Also, it is kind of silly that the amount of damage a monk can do with his fists is dependent on the weapon he has slung over his back…

  5. Accurate about people who get the drops they want and are then propelled ahead of people struggling to find the build defining weapon they need.

    Example is the Flying Dragon on a Monk, sure you may get a non legendary one, but the stats on it are terrible. Then weapon still generates more spirit than any other Legendary Diabo and you are forced to use that FD until a decently rolled legendary or Ancient drops. The weapon is so rare though, you are most likely going to get frustrated looking for an Ancient one.

    As far as lore goes though, Nephalem are offspring of Angels and Demons. Their power to wield these weapons and swing them with such force as to kill multiple demons in one swing stand true to the lore I think.

  6. This has been a problem ever since the launch of the game, it’s one of the core issues of D3 that needed to be changed early. Right now it would be very difficult to change how damage in D3 is treated but it would be great if it was addressed in the expansion.

  7. I’ve said it before, but here it is again. If they insist on making build-defining weapons that are far and away the best choices for each class the balance progression should be this:

    Any weapon -> legendary weapon -> any average rolled ancient weapon -> great rolls on a non-ancient build-defining weapon -> great rolls on an ancient build-defining weapon

    Diablo has always been RNG but there’s always been something extremely stupid about it. D2 had LK rune runs… 300,000 runs of one area only opening chests. That was stupid. Ancient build defining weapons are about as stupid, RNG-wise.

  8. I prefer games where skill matters more than luck. Right now luck matters too much.

    Also, the skill is predominantly in number crunching, not in actual gameplay. Knowing what gear to wear, what to keep and enchant, etc. To ‘learn’ to play Diablo 3 at the higher levels, you do more researching and calculating outside the game than you do actually playing it.

    I look at heroes of the storm for instance. There’s no items, no gear, etc. Every Nova is exactly the same. Access to the same talent choices, same stats at the same levels, etc. But some Novas are awesome and some Novas suck. Because it’s about skill.

    Items in Diablo 3 take that out. Because it’s all about your gear. Skill plays second or even third fiddle. And I agree that it doesn’t match the ‘lore’ that your power comes from yourself; your power is almost completely coming from your items. Try doing a level 40 grift naked and see how much of your ‘power’ comes from your character itself.

    So I agree with the original post completely. It’s certainly a type of way to play and some people enjoy it, but it really isn’t the most fun a game could be.

  9. Its not weapon damage that is the major issue its main stat being a damage multiplier that causes the huge gap in dps.

    1 dps difference between weapons can over 7000 dps output difference when multiplied by characters mainstat.

    1000 dps difference from and average normal weapon to a good ancient will therefore give 7 million dps diffrence in total dps output. even an averge geared level 70 will have approx 7000 mainstat.

    Mainstat as a 1:1 base damage multiplier therefore defines whether weapons are good to use or not and because of this makes all items armour & jewllery dps multipliers where as in d1/d2 armour/jewellery was not a direct base damage multiplier

  10. I think you’re kinda half right. Mainstat is a direct multiplier & the numbers involved magnify small differences in weapon stats. But I think you’re wrong as I think the figures you see in-game take your mainstat into account.

    I see the problem not being weapon damage per se (as it makes it easier for the devs to balance damage across classes and skills) but the ridiculous numbers some skills have and the billions of hp even trash mobs have at end game which, of course, require large numbers from skills in order to kill them in a timely manner. But Blizz decided to go with a purely numerical way to make your character feel powerful so they have to hold on ever tighter to the neck of the power creep tiger lest it turn round and devour them

  11. He’s right.

    Between crit damage and all your damage tied to weapons it makes the game stupid boring.

    Your character has zero actual power, it is all tied to gear which makes you feel weak as you are weak.

  12. Agree yes.

    somewhat offtopic –

    I agree more-so with the criticism of the game being almost entirely RNG based tho.. Sure they’ve introduced bounty bags and Leorics crown from the skelly king where you can somewhat target specific items. That doesnt go anywhere near far enough. Need i mention rng ontop of rng? hellfire ammy keys / amulets *rolls eyes*.

    If Blizz could work a way where you could be offered a specific reward for clearing an act in campaign mode (an entirely neglected game mode)
    perhaps tyrael could offer you a choice of item title rewards upon accepting the quest. eg – “The Furnace” with no stats displayed to somewhat retain blizzards love of rng.

    How bout this.. complete the entire campaign, being present for all acts 1-5 to stop splitfarming and you can earn yourself a Gift of Ramaladni / Gift to upgrade an item to ancient OR a gift to socket jewelery.

  13. I don’t mind basing damage on weapon damage for all classes–it was better than barbs desperate for a good weapon/runeword in D2 and sorcs not caring at all about it.

    The problem is not RNG, it is ridiculously small chance RNG. If a there’s a build required weapon out there and it takes a reasonable amount of time for an ancient one to drop then that’s OK. If you could play to PL800 and statistically there’s only a 2% chance you would have your weapon then that’s not OK.

    I’m looking for an ancient Aether Walk wand on my wizard. Many hours, many GRs, many T6 rifts later and no luck. That’s where the frustration comes in. Or the fact that I’ve played S2 and S3 to PL400 each time and have found 1 Unity ring in all that time. That’s not fun.

    D2 had the same problem with runes that were so rare you could play a lifetime of D2 and still not expect to find a Zod.

    An object like a Gift that turns an item ancient isn’t a bad solution. You separate the chance of finding the new Gift and finding the weapon you need. It is just another way of saying RNG is fine, but hopelessly unlikely RNG is not.

  14. I like the fact that RNG can leave you cold; or hot. It’s ok with me that my barb has never found a decent set of bul katho’s Oath and still whirls with an older ancient Immortal King’s Boulder Breaker.

    I know there’s better weapons out there but, I’m happy for what I’ve got. It was hard earned as my time to play has become more limited.

    It’s cool to want for something … to have a reason to keep questing. It is for me, not having the best of evertyhing, another reason to sign in and play again.

  15. Riddick killed a guy with a tea cup….the dammage was in the Furyan.

  16. For me personaly the weapon damage is not the main problem here with weapons. Is it the best solution? Not, but it is OK solution. The main problem for me are the ancient weapons and how they work, because they ruin everything. If you don’t find ancient IK hammer/Kridershot etc. you can’t simply compete or make the build you want and this is for every class/build in the game. And because they are so rare to drop it is making it even worse. I have paragon 600+ on this season and i found more than 30 Natalya weps and none of which was Ancient, same as for Kridershot, IK hammer etc. RNJesus i know but still. They need to think and to remake this. If they make them to have the same damage output as a normal legendary but the other stats higher – more main stat, more LOH, more attack speed etc. it will be so much better you can enjoy every weapon drop because it will be usable and not complete garbage and still if you want to be better than the others you can grind to find that perfect ancient roll that will give that LITTLE difference to help you push more than the others…

  17. Imho the issue are neither weapon damage nor rng in themselves, but that itemization is the sole center point for power creep. Paragon just relevates the dependency a tiny bit but offers no way to shape one his characters. A character development system offering 2/3 to equal the power gain through itemization is exactly the thing D3 is lacking, though.

    • I agree, the character choices need to be more than just weapon damage and main stat. Paragon also needs to do something a bit more meaningful.

  18. I wonder if power creep could be slowed (and Ancients be addressed) by removing the +Damage stat and adding more elemental damage bonuses or synergizing stats. I don’t know how they would address players going back up to the 3-4 billion hit mark but it wouldn’t be an issue if weapons in RoS capped out between 800-1400 instead of 3800-4500…

Comments are closed.