Wanted: More Monsters on PTR, More Legendaries on RoS


Two blue posts in search of moar.

I just did approximately 120 bounties (20 x full set of five + random bounties that were adjacent to boss rooms) which gave me 20 Horadric Caches.

I got one JC plan, seven legendary plans, two set plans, and a Gloves of Worship and Boots of Disregard. The GoW I kept and I salvaged the boots. As for the plans? I already knew them. So my net gain was one legendary gloves and one Forgotten Soul. For six hours of work.

Nevalistis: While I’m sorry to hear that this was a less than fruitful experience, the good news is that this is excellent anecdotal information for me to pass on. I’ve definitely been seeing a trend with this feedback, and just wanted to say thank you for so eloquently highlighting this issue.

I know these moments can occasionally be disheartening, but sharing your thoughts and keeping the flow of information coming in to us about your Beta experience is what allows us to progress and make sure that our end product is as shiny and polished as possible. When the game is actually out, we definitely want everyone to enjoy it. So thank you, and keep it up, folks! This really helps us out!

What do you think ? Do you feel there are enough packs to your satisfaction? Isn’t the land desert most of the time ? Aren’t packs usually too small? Like 6 creatures, every now and then. Sometimes eventually some fun with two large packs combined. Sometimes two packs of champions combined. I feel like the packs of champions are well distributed, but not the normal packs of monsters & normal monsters.

Lylirra:

  • Do you feel that monster density is too high, too low, or at a good place on the PTR right now?
    • For normal monsters?
    • For Champion and Elite packs?
  • If you answered “too low”:
    • Do you feel the density is too low for leveling a new character, playing at max level, or both?
    • Where is the lower density most noticeable for you (in terms of Acts and/or specific zones)?
  • Is there any solution outside strictly raising the density that would make your experience more fun? For example:
    • Making the monsters more difficult or giving them more health
    • Redistributing the current density in a different way
  • Have you adapted your hero’s build at all on the PTR as a result of the change to monster density?
    • If so, how?
  • Why do you dislike the lower density?
    • Similarly, why did you like the higher density better?

I haven’t played the PTR because RoS (and out of town holidays) but if it’s anything like the density seen in Campaign Mode in RoS, I’m surprised anyone is still playing on the PTR. In RoS, Campaign Mode’s low density is tolerable (though lame) since you’re only playing that mode while leveling up a new character or going through Act Five for the first time, but it’s *way* too low to feel profitable or fun with a level 70 character.moar1Almost everyone plays Adventure Mode 100% of the time in RoS, for better profits but also better fun. Doing bounties is currently the best way to get gold/exp/items, and though the content in AdMode is basically identical to Story Mode + extra Purples, you don’t mind the lower density (than the current live version of D3) since you want to move around quickly to complete the bounties.

The most fun gameplay comes in DiabloWikiNephalem Rifts, where you get highly varied monster density (and variety, and level layouts), but players aren’t doing those as much anymore since they’re not as rewarding as bounties. This is largely due to goodie bag rewards being so badly nerfed, and also since Rift Guardians inexplicably do not drop anything special,

That ties into the other blue reply about legendary item drop rates in RoS. Most testers agree that they were too generous during the F&F beta, and that they’re much too low now. All hopes are for a buff in a patch once the devs are back from Xmas holidays, since the item game isn’t fun now. Even trying to work your way up via Legendary plans is too tedious, since you need to 1) farm the leg materials and 2) salvage a leg item to get a Forgotten Soul material to start with.

And since DiabloWikiMagic Find is nerfed and all-but-removed in RoS, you can’t even specialize your gear or play style to boost your legendary find rate… though quite a few of you guys actually approve of that change, to my eternal perplexity.

Not to break one of my own NYRs, but the lack of an Auction House or any means of trading is vexing when you play for 3 or 4 hours and find 500x Rares all within 2% of your current item quality, and one legendary item that’s not even an upgrade. After all, the whole point of binding, as we recently debated on the Diablo 3 Podcast, is that it enables much higher item drop rates so you don’t miss or need trading. With low drop rates and no trading or AH… you’ve got an item game that’s the worst of both worlds.

Comments

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  1. Someone tell these fanboys and the developers that “more” doesn’t equate “better” if the quality is lacking.

    http://deadhomersociety.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/homerandapu6_thumb.png?w=512&h=384

  2. Too low, too high, too something. Diablo fans are impossible to please.

  3. I actually really like the new density. It’s part of the reason Ray of Frost and similar skills became viable again. The other part is of course that even base RoF is a small AoE now. I honestly think the problem is not the density, but the amount of rewards you get for your reduced amount of kills.

    With that we arrived at drop rates. I think it would be really beneficial for the development of the game if people would state their long term goals or even if they have one when they are voicing their opinion about this. Do they want to reach T6 quickly? What rate of progression would be acceptable?

    People should also keep in mind that currently we are testing an endgame difficulty scaling that was almost surely designed with Crushing Blow in mind and without it progression after Torment is really slow. This together with the almost complete removal of MF (which I wholeheartedly support) means that we have to play a lot to increase our Legendary drop chances, which is possible only by climbing the Torment ladder.

    Basically what I’m saying is that devs should really make up their mind about what they want in the long term as well. Either bring back CB in some form and leave the drop rates alone for further testing or leave CB out and increase our rewards. Reimplementing CB together with better loot will once again result in people farming T6 after a few days and we already know that doing neither is not something that people like either.

    • “was almost surely designed with Crushing Blow in mind”
      If sth like that happened, then that’s pretty poor game design.

      But yes, current density is not bad, though there is not enough exp. Leveling char w/o this flashy exp% items takes some time.
      Also during 1-50 time we could get more legs dropping to enhance the fun of leveling. (As an example Neverwinter gives you a lot to do, while leveling, but you’re leveling to quickly to check it all)

      • Should have said balanced instead of designed but anyway, yes, if true it wasn’t the best decision. Thing is though, the current level of T6 enemy HP doesn’t make sense to me otherwise.

  4. Last night on the PTR, Tasker and Theo Legendary gloves dropped for me off a corpse in act 1 Master(they add 100% AS to pets). I was stoked, Since my DH was using sentries it really made a big difference in their attack speed(from my base 2aps to 3aps!), they were like machine guns now, mowing down the zombies. Really started to make a difference in the longer battles with elites once I had 3 sentries out (Custom Engineering).

    Since then nothing has dropped for me, but I cannot keep thinking about the fact that other things besides rares and blues should be dropping(when legendaries are not). If there were charms, jewels and even runes in the game I would be sifting through those, and making progress through other means. Right now its way too linear with Legendaries being the absolute focus.

    So when I find the few legendaries I really want, OR they simply do not drop, and I have no way to trade, what then? Not having more options in gearing just makes this problem even more pronounced.

    Itemization needs to seriously expand beyond one item type.

    • I think there is helm (don’t remember well) that gives you 2 more sentries 😀

    • If there was a Legendary Jewel that added 25% to sentry damage then i would be looking for that ON TOP of the Tasker and Theo Legendary gloves.

      Perhaps a legendary charm that reduces cooldown of my sentries by 25%, A diablo 3 version of the d2 skiller charms if you like. Another thing keeping my in the game and killing stuff because I really want it for my build!

      Finally Legendary runes that would give bonuses to skills or grant new ones.
      Perhaps a rune that grants every 2nd sentry bolt 100% piercing chance, Yet another thing to grind for to improve my build.

      Things to grind for to customize our builds on top of the legendaries we have now is what this game NEEDS BADLY.

    • Completely agree. Game needs more bread crumbs. Talisman would work beautifully here.

  5. A good measure for monster density would probably be somewhere closer to RoS beta than to current D3 live standards – with monsters dropping RoS quantity and quality level loot, that is.

    The underlying problem is the old quality vs quantity thing again, where Blizzard opted to head straight for quantity, not only in terms of loot but also enemy behaviour/balancing. Equipped with improved AI, more than one attack per creature type and a lot more damage resistance (there isn’t much strategy/lasting fun involved with 50 monsters when they all die together within 0.5 seconds of appearing on screen) some of the enemies present in the game wouldn’t actually be half as bad by design.

    This again leads to the pacing problems D3’s combat suffers from, though, … and so on and so forth …

  6. I definitely think the drop rate is way too low now. It doesn’t need to be as high as in the F&F beta but more than it is now. There are several aspects that makes a higher drop rate make more sense in RoS compared to d3 vanilla:

    1. Basically no trading
    2. Higher total amount of different legendaries and more legendaries with useful affixes, making a specific legendary with a desired effect harder to find. Smart drops should help you with some of the class specific ones though.
    3. Crafting materials
    4. Enchanting

    I think 2-3 legendaries per act clear on average is a good aim for master difficulty, and then a bit more on torment difficulties, and ofc a bit less on normal/hard/expert. And then of course scale bounty rewards to match that type of legs/’time spent’ rate.

    Right now I get one legper act clear if I’m lucky.

    I don’t really care about mob density as long as rewards are scaled to match a lower density. I think smaller groups but more evenly spread would be the best choice since it would make single target builds much more effective.

  7. Just go in and double EVRAYTHANG

  8. “For six hours of work”
    I think someone has missed the point of videogames.

    “Excellent anecdotal information”
    What a sly dig and a polite way of saying, RNG– your sample size of 1 is too small.

    • “What a sly dig and a polite way of saying, RNG– your sample size of 1 is too small.”

      It was also factually correct. I like our new CM already. 🙂

  9. I just hope game developers are reading this one post. There’s obviously many changes that need to happen to make this game really fly.

  10. I’m really puzzled that no one here seems to dislike the lower density. For me one of the best things they changed since launch was patch 1.0.8 with the higher density!!!
    Diablo 1 and 2 had usually loads of monsters on the screen, and it was good!
    And to argue that certain skills work better with a lower density is like arguing that the current sparse live drop rates are necessary for the auction house to work properly. Sure, the auction house works alright, only the poor drop rates make the game lackluster in the first place.
    This is no Baldur’s Gate 2, an Action RPG usually just doesn’t offer a strategic enough combat for few and but tough enemies. Or worse few AND rather weak enemies!

    • I think they just like it because it allows them quicker access to the bounties, the main purpose of roaming about the world now.

      But in general, outside of this reason, I doubt anyone would say they prefer it. I certainly don’t. Quit the PTR, just couldn’t take that the game was more wandering than monster slaying.

  11. Rift Guardians need some sort of item that can drop that isn’t exactly a legendary item, but something you want, in the way people ran Countess over and over though they were getting basically crap, they knew if they did it enough times, they’d get what they want or be able to work their way up to it.

    • They could even create six 9 piece sets for all the classes, give them all a 1% chance to drop off a Guardian. Simply doing this creates some anticipation that the RG just might drop something truly amazing.

      Oh wait, that’s World of Warcraft lol

      • Don’t mention the forbidden game or prepare to face the wrath of the mindless horde. 🙂

      • I don’t know if the Hellfire Ring has any value now, but if it does, then a good idea for Rift Guardians would be to have them have a guaranteed chance of dropping a random key, with a small chance of dropping a random Demonic Organ instead. This would allow RGs to feel more worth it, as doing them would give you more keys to make machines with, and if you got lucky, you might get an organ instead, so you wouldn’t have to do one of the ubers (net value is basically one machine per organ drop).

  12. In regards to finding “already known” plans, I think they should grant some sort of reward when you take it to the blacksmith (since they are currently un-trade-able).

    In the most lucrative sense, one duplicate plan would grant one free craft of that item. Perhaps this would create too many legendaries out there (or an easy way to create legendary crafting materials).

    In the most conservative sense, they could reduce the cost of your next craft of that item. Your first duplicate plan taken to Haedrig removes the gold cost. The next duplicate plans reduce the amount of Reusable Parts you need by 1, until it is 0. Then, they reduce the magic/rare/legendary crafting materials needed until 0 (which material is reduced could also be left to RNG). Let’s say it requires 10-15 duplicate plans to get a free craft (if you don’t craft one with “reduced costs” before that).

    I believe I first heard this idea back in the day on the Diablo Podcast.

    • They need to do something more harsh about plans (like removing them… or making them drop on events only). Also, no pun intended, they need to double the drop rates (or so) vs. monsters.

      I didn’t play the PTR farming seriously, but it seems I get 1-1,5 legendary per hour. If I got 2-2,5 legendaries per hour, maybe 3, excluding plans, with smart drops involved, I would call it decent. More than that would be too high and we would gear up maybe too fast…

      Imagine not getting plans on bounty bags, on top of a doubled drop rate vs. monster excluding plans, as well. That would be close to ok, imo (I don’t have beta, I’m judging as a stream viewer).

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