Vote: What Kind of PvP System for Diablo III?

Diablo III does not allow any nonconsensual DiabloWikiPvP. If you want to fight, you must join an Arena game where you will deathmatch to your heart’s content against other eager duelers. Though Blizzard seems to be treating the Arena as a minor part of the game, and they keep insisting there’s no way it could ever be esport-ish, I think they’re underestimating the interest we’ll see in their PvP mode, and I base this on the fact that everyone I know who played the Arena demo at Blizzcon 2010 or 2011 absolutely loved it.

Arena expectations aside (thought that would be another good vote, someday), what do you think of how Diablo III is handling PvP? Do you love the new DiabloWikiArena mode? Do you wish you could PvP in regular games? Or are you a straight up old school PK and you wish the Barbarian had brought the D2 spank ‘n gank system along with him? If you need it, check out the freshly-updated Diablo Player Killing article for a refresher on how PKing was handled in D1 and D2, and then pick the option that best represents your opinion, and we’ll try to iron out some community consensus.

This vote is partly spurred by the mention of a PK switch in a recent editorial, so thanks to that for the inspiration. I’m pretty sure we ran a similar vote a couple of years ago, but since the old poll posts didn’t import from the old news script into our current Word Press system, I can’t easily point to the archives and say yes or no. In any event, it would have been more than two years ago, before the Battle Arena was even announced, so we might as well vote on the issue now that it’s non-hypothetical.

What kind of PvP system would you like in Diablo 3?

  • 4) D3 style; Arenas with no normal game PvP. (44%, 1,489 Votes)
  • 3) PvP in normal games, if set on game creation. (21%, 715 Votes)
  • 5) No interest. Remove PvP from game entirely, for all I care. (20%, 661 Votes)
  • 2) D2 style; no friendly fire, but PK switch in-game. (11%, 376 Votes)
  • 1) D1 style PK switch, plus friendly fire. (3%, 109 Votes)

Total Voters: 3,348

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Last Vote Results

The last vote asked what you guys thought of the look of DiabloWikiAzmodan, as revealed during Blizzcon 2011. I’m always surprised when as critically-discerning a bunch as the readers of this site all like something — but I wasn’t terribly surprised in this instance, since I thought Azmodan looked pretty cool myself.

Do you like the look and style of Azmodan?

  • 1) I think he’s awesome. Perfect. (55%, 2,613 Votes)
  • 2) Good, but could be better. (28%, 1,302 Votes)
  • 4) Lame design. Cheesy. Not scary. Etc. (10%, 451 Votes)
  • 3) Not so good. I have objections. (7%, 345 Votes)

Total Voters: 4,711

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89 thoughts on “Vote: What Kind of PvP System for Diablo III?

  1. I have no interest in PvP. And this poll got me to think, if PvP is removed entirely, then the peeps who kept saying “omg D3 is Pay to win!!!!” coz of the RMAH…… how would they maintain the same arguement? how do u define when when u cant compete with each other? I am guessing it is the reason why alot of ppl does not entirely oppose to RMAH, coz they dont intend to compete with anyone.

    Maybe you can have a competition and see who can kill the fastest by posing kill videos on youtube or something and compete against each other……..

    • seansky, have you considered the OMG YOU SUCKZ N00b DPS MOAR factor?

      Take a look at WoW, even without PvP there are plenty of people that try to show off and compare epeenage.
      Enter the RMAH in D3.  Epeen can now be charged with a credit card.  Imagine how this will affect ‘General chat.’   Gear (which has been progressively easier to get in Blizzard games) now requires no gameplay whatsoever to acquire.  The minor annoyance of ‘General chat’ arguments of superiority have the potential to explode as no effort is actually required anymore.

      I would encourage you to try to imagine going into a game as a casual player who does not wish to use RMAH.  Lets say you are equally skilled to one or more of the people in the game, but because you don’t use RMAH your gear is inferior.  Would you appreciate comments such as OMG N00B YOUR GEAR SUCKZORZ LEAVE, GET OUTTA HERE N00B.  Just because PvP isn’t allowed, doesnt mean there won’t be competition.  

      I realize this uses WoW as an example, but the RMAH is essentially an expanded WoW feature.

      I think that people who ignore elitism as a problem are allowing the wool to be pulled over their eyes.  Allowing gear to be purchased and removing the need for any effort from the game removes accomplishment from the game as well.  Both for the person that purchased the gear to some extent, and for the person who wanted to go through the difficulty of earning their gear.

      I guess in closing, I would say its quite naive to say there is no competition without PvP.  The RMAH only gives degradation of community an easier path in that sense.

    • Well there is a potential of that happening, but i never really see it as a big factor. I probly will not be using RMAH at all. I will be playing with friends, real friends that will not be yelling at me for less than awesome gear, and instead help me equip, while i do the same for them if it is the other way around. I probly wont, ever, play public. Face it, even if my gear is awesome, i wont find it enjoyable playing with pricks that measure u by ur epeen size. I have played online games that require 25 players bonding and team work together, which u cant substitute with easily. Playing a game of 4 players, and u can constantly change who u team with, dont seem like a problem at all.  

      The elitism will still be there even if RMAH does not exist. It will still be there even if everyone uses and have the same gear. It is a problem of the community, not the feature in the game. If everyone has the same DPS, someone would “omg u run so sucky slow?!?!??!” or “omg ur town trip takes so F***ing long???? dude u sux!!!!”  

      Just bear in mind elitism is not competition, as u can be indifferent about elitism, such as put them on mute, play private games, play with ppl u know has no ego complex…….

  2. How about WoW non-PVP server style?

    Arena + battlefield (goals other than just amassing kills) + consensual 1-on-1 duels at any time.

    • i would vote for this:
      in normal games “this person challanged you to a 1v1 (or 2v2 1v2 1v3). do you want fight?”
      choice of D2-PK on/off 

    • I considered putting in a bunch more options with various permutations of PK switch, full-world PVP, etc, but I figured too many options would just dilute the results, and we’d still have a bunch of, “you didn’t offer a vote with my personal ideal PvP scenario” comments no matter now many options there were.

      Always a balance between making enough choices to be useful, and not so many that it gets hair-splitting.

      Plus, if people didn’t have a chance to complain about the poll options exactly matching the votes in their heads, what would we do in comments?

  3. I would have voted for both supervised D3-style and wild D2-style PvPs, but since I had to choose… I took the D2 answer since it’s not in the game right now. 😛

  4. d3 style
    and wipe after every patch 😀  😈
    actually yes… sort of battleground would be perfect shit.

  5. Not good enough options!
    This is the best option and I’m sure most people agree:

    Diablo 3 style arena and battleground AND the option to DUEL in a normal game.
    Basically you right click someones name and challenge to a duel, the other player can then decide accept or deny.

    Everyone win.

    • I agree with this guy completely! Please add this option to the poll, at least consider it!

    • And where should you be allowed to duel? There is no “in combat” concept in Diablo 3, so you can’t use that. If you allowed duelling everywhere, you could get that popup at extremely inconvenient times and in a game as fast as Diablo, that could very well mean death.
      If you allow it in town only, that would look rather silly, especially if all towns are as cramped as the one we’ve seen so far. So how about a small area in town dedicated for that stuff? Well you may just as well use the duel option for the arena (I understand they want to implement that).
      Expanding on that, imagine the following scenario: 3 people in a public game, killing stuff in a dungeon. Nr4 joins the game asking for a duel (must… restrain… from… screw it: “DUEL?!? XD”). You got the picture in your head? Okay, if you don’t realise the problem with that, I’ll explain it to you: The people in the game are already doing what they want to do, which is killing monsters, doing quests, defeating bosses, or in short: PvE. They do not want to duel, the chance that one of them actually wanted to duel but decided to play a PvE game instead is rather small. The fourth player however does not want to PvE and he is generally just being a nuisance or “pain in the ass” to the other players, which generally goes along with a strong sense of “assholishness” once he realises they don’t want to duel, so he sticks around shouting profanity until he gets booted. A great solution to that problem? Don’t allow PvP in PvE!
      The point is that no, you cannot make everyone happy (or “win”) and offering a host of options at game creation for a tiny part of the playerbase (such as enabling PK, what sane person would choose a gametype that allowed other players to enter and kill him?) is not a sensible solution. Sure it’s just an option, but an option that a barely measurable portion of your playerbase uses for a gametype you don’t actually support is a bad option.
      Clear your minds of D2, if you really think about it, the “PvP” in that game never really made any sense, you just got used to it.

  6. Remove it all together. We could could have another act to play in instead of wasting time on pvp that is really an afterthought in Diablo.  

    • Agree.  Think about how much time will be wasted, and how many skills will be NERFed for PvM, in order to ‘balance’ PVP.

      • This isn’t WoW. The D3 devs have said they will not be nerfing PvM to make PvP work, and they can balance the skills separately in the different game modes, if need be.

        I also enjoy the fact that everyone who doesn’t care about PvP in D3… hasn’t played it yet. A few Arena games will convert all doubters. Don’t be so wedded to the wisdom of your virginity on this issue. Trust the judgment of the people who have actually played the game.

  7. I like current style. But it needs Duel option. Something like “Click on player, choose Duel, if he accepts, you fight. When one of the dueling players has 1HP or less, his enemy wins. Nobody dies tho”

    EDIT: I see some guys already have the same opinion. Soz.

  8. These polls don’t tell us anything. is but a small segment of the Diablo community, and the people who did like PKing, the grittier art direction of the original Diablo, etc., have already been scared off. They have already jumped ship, in other words. I don’t blame them since the Diablo series has effectively been turned into World of Warcraft lite.

    Oh, and:

    This poll was already done back when people didn’t fully realize that Diablo 3 was going to be one giant fail.

    • You mean it was held before people found out there was going to be an arena so there was no other option to consider and those results are far more invalid than these… If you hate this game so much then why are you posting here or even following the site at all anymore? If people like you are “scared off” from Diablo 3 because you preceive it as a failure, then good riddance because it is full of awesome and you are a failure at life for not recognizing it as such… you can gtfo now…

      • You seem like a moron, so it’s unsurprising that you like the new direction the Diablo series is going.
        Moreover, you’re not making any point. That PK/Hardcore poll was held before many hardcore Diablo fans jumped ship. Now that we know Diablo 3 is going to be WoW lite, the true Diablo fans have left. All that’s left are the Blizzard nuthuggers who would buy a box filled with dog feces if it sported the Blizzard logo.
        To clarify, by true Diablo fans I mean the players who had no problems the PKing aspects of Diablo. PKing is part of Diablo, brah. It was in Diablo. It was in Diablo 2. But all of a sudden, now that Blizzard North is no more, and now that some WoW nut is head of the Diablo development team, now there’s no PKing.
        I played Diablo for years and I don’t recall people whining about PKing per se. So you guys are either new to Diablo or you’re WoW drones who have taken a recent interest in Diablo for some reason.

        There’s a split between the old school Blizzard fans and the new Blizzard fans. The old school Blizzard fans (Blizzard North fans) don’t like this anime, no PKing, World of Warcraft story shit with dragons.

        The only reason I check for news every so often is to watch the train wreck unfold.

        • You know, I am actually hoping you are a troll, because if this how you really are, then I weep for the future of humanity. Surely, there has to be biological limit to stupidity though you seem inclined to push it beyond its breaking point.

          Your post is so presumtious, egocentric and just plain ol´ dumb, that replying to you is waste of breath, or in this case, virtual ink.

          • But you replied anyways because you’re a pompous pseudo-intellectual asshat who thinks his/her opinion is gospel.
            Why would I give a crap about what some idiot in pajamas who’s dwelling in his mother’s basement thinks about my opinion of a video game? I just stated my opinion and if you don’t like it, then fine; and if you do like it, then fine. But don’t give me the holier than thou shit.
            And I hope you’re intelligent to understand that your entire post is self-referentially incoherent.

        • I’m noticing, in this thread and some other recent ones,  that the angriest and most immature people are arguing FOR  PKing.

          I don’t just mean that the people arguing for it sound like 13 y/os who get pushed around in gym class and want to get revenge from the safety of an online avatar, like Matt here. I mean that no one sounds like this (angry, insulting, childish, etc) in arguments about anything else in the game. People get pretty riled up about RMAH and online-only DRM, etc. But no one sounds like theyr’e throwing a temper tantrum in the process of debating those points.

          This is probably useful info, as it grants some insight into the mind set of people who grief/pk/etc.

          • It’s easy not to get riled up when one of your favorite game series is going your way. And you must not get around much, because I see people from both sides on every Diablo issue making immature posts.
            Secondly, you must have a problem reading because Scorch Hellfire was the one telling me to “gtfo,” “good riddance,” and “you’re a failure at life” simply because my opinion differed from his. I was only replying to him in a manner that he’d understand.
            Is there anything else you need help with, Flux? Like, for instance, forming logical arguments and creating actually interesting news? What about shining that big forehead of yours? I bet the kids in your gym class had a field day with that.

            Hey, if Diablo were never developed, do you think Flux would have ended up as a janitor?

          • first of, successful troll is successful. Congradulations, you have officialy scr**** part of this thread.

            Second of all, Matt you´re an assh***. It had to be said.

            Thirdly, the reason that people got so riled up is because you presented your views in very immature, I am correct and anybody who says otherwise is clearly not a “real” (ridicoulus concept) Diablo fan, which is not healthy for any sort of debate. People argue their points points all the time, and thats good, great even, community where everybody think exactly the same is a terrible community, difference in opinions spurrs debates, which usually results in improvements. Imagine if the devs went with the very first idea they had, that would be a wreck of a game. The reason why I am explaining this to you is because you seem to fail to release general concepts of debate and instead cling to your opinion without ever considering somebody elses, whish is what got people aggravated in the first place. I am writing this is just in case my first sentence in incorrect, and you are misguided person angrily trying to argue his stance on a game.

          • Matt you’re annoying the crap out of everyone with your selfrightousness and need to be right.

            go away.

  9. Voted 4, but I think that much like Susie’s last report card, PVP isn’t living up to its full potential.
    They could have done a lot more with it, and we’ve not seen whatever stupidity they’ve injected (or somehow managed to strip out of it, which is more likely) since BlizzCon.

    • I totally agree that PvP isn’t living up to its full potential.  I was thinking something like PvP characters((toggle on creation?), combined with some sort of PvP switch, that would allow you to Co-op effectively and also choose to PvP would be a nice solution.  As long as they removed some of the clearly exploitative ways to kill that have been seen in the past I would support it.

    • I doubt it has changed much if at all since Blizzcon… I agree that they could do more with it, and hopefully they will realize how much people like PvP and make more content for it like new modes and such… and yes they need to allow people to challenge eachother to duels in games…

      • I dunno, I’ve seen things in the game files which are less than encouraging (think of Quake 3 Arena), but I have no idea how current they are.

  10. There needs to be some kind of in game dueling!

    These polls always surprise me…. Really? More people would like to have NO dueling AT ALL then the D2 style of dueling? Yeah the game would be better with less features….. Get Real…..

    People on these polls always seem to support the current direction of D3. Its like they mindlessly follow Blizzards decisions without even thinking for themselves. Polls like these just show how few of you actually enjoyed the past Diablo games…

    • Everyone has different ways to enjoy games. As long as, in the end, they are happy, it doesnt mean that they havta do it and see it as u do. Some thinks im crazy re-watching a movie i love and enjoy 50 times over, but that dont stop me feeling good everytime after i watch it. I feel good when i kill monsters for hour and find some valuable, so ill be doing that and probly only that in D3. I dont find enjoyment from killing other players, or playing bearing in mind if i die i lose my characters, or dealing with un-desirable teammates, so ull excuse me for voting for something u might not have voted for.

    • Given those 2 options?  Yes, no dueling at all would be better than, “we’re trying to do a quest or a boss run, some jackhole joins the game, asks to join the party to do what we’re doing, then immediately flips on his PK switch and comes after us.”  We can then either stop what we actually WANT to do and deal with this crap (and still most likely lose since we’re using characters more spec’d for PvE than PvP) or have to leave and start again in another game.  Flag or no flag, there was realistically 0 consent to PvP in that game.
      The D2 PvP system was god awful.  Granted, it was better than D1, but that doesn’t take a whole lot.

      • Ok well the diablo 2 approach maybe didnt work perfectly but all it needs are a few tweeks, not a complete rebuild. Like what if it was like D2 style but BOTH players had to accept the duel before any damage could be delt?

        I also support the idea of having the servers split between pvp and non pvp, same goes for the RMAH.

        I was just shocked to see the amount of people who would rather have no pvp.

  11. wow 200+ votes against pvp alltogether and they want it removed. Are you afraid of failure and don´t have a competitive nature since you don´t want pvp?  Why would you remove it alltogether, when it´s seperated from pve? It makes no sense at all. I voted 3

    • I dont have a competitive nature. If competition produce something benifiting the society, sure. But competition in something im supposed to enjoy and relax over? I can find enough competition dealing with real life as it is.

      • sport is competitve but also kinda relaxing, because you don´t think about your work, chess is the same thing(both of which I love) and I can mention hundreds of things that are competitive and fun at the same time, yet doesn´t benefit the society besides social interation and the good implications of that.

        You didn´t really explain yourself very well, and obviously you don´t like anything competitive, unless it contributes to society, so perhaps you should find yourself a game suited for your nature..Zelda or sims perhaps?

        • Speak for yourself. Some people find watching competition relaxing, heck some people find participating in competion relaxing, I am not one of those people. Exactly as Seansky said, I face enough competion and competitvness in RL, I don´t need/want it in D3. And, no, I don´t find sport relaxing or interesting, ands I am not particulary interested in chess.

        • Zert said all i wanted to say. Thanks. I obviously dont like competition in anything i want to enjoy and relax with, which atm we are talking about D3 going in that direction. So i *found* myself the game, being D3, which has no competition as long as u ignore arena all together. I dont disregard there are ppl who find competition fun, which is why i said “I dont have a competitive nature” not we.
          I vote for 5. Read wat it said again: NO INTEREST, remove pvp from the game completely for all i care. It is a vote for the ppl who dont giv a rat’s **** about PVP, or indifferent if it exist or not, not a vote to remove PVP. We wont care if it gets removed, but we are not voting to remove it. It can stay as long as it dont affect my (relaxed and enjoyable) gaming experience. If the team want to remove it, sure i dont care.
          Unless u are saying anyone who has no competitive nature should not vote on……..

    • I think the fear is that, despite assurances it will never happen, Blizzard will bow down to pressures from the PvP community and start nerfing/buffing skills based on PvP balance and in the process mess up creative builds in the main game.
      If some odd skill/rune/passive/item combination allows a minion-less witch doctor to clear inferno, most people will just think it is cool and videos of the accomplishment will make the front page of fan sites.  But if that same combo makes witch doctors OP in the arena, then there will be cries to nerf it into the ground.  “OMG!  Witch Doctors are supposed to be balanced around having minions.  If they are great without them, then they are OP with them.  NERF!!!!”
      At the moment, I have my faith that Wilson and company won’t fold to the pressure but I can see people not having that trust.

      • I agree with this completely. I was a bit torn between options 4 and 5 (I eventually voted 4). I think arenas look like a fun diversion. I would enjoy playing around in them, but ultimately I don’t want the PvE game to be influenced at all by PvP balance. I take them at their word that this will be the case (for now).

    • You have to understand Sulle that most of the people who are voting are WoW tards. Most of them have probably never even played Diablo back in the 90s.
      These new “Diablo fans” don’t like difficulty. They like simple straightforward white bread gameplay. They can’t handle the idea of somebody killing their character in a video game.

      • Hey Matt – I have played since D1 – lots of time put into the game.  You are entitled to your opinion.  But you are acting like a complete a$$hole.
        Duel == both people want to fight.  I wouldn’t mind this at all, other than I think it will cause the game to be delayed even longer and cause PvM skills to be NERFed in order to balance PvE.
        PK == making other people miserable for your enjoyment.  Since when did ‘being an a$$hole’ mean ‘being a man’ ?

        PS: It has nothing to do with being scared/embarassed/etc about your char being killed. It has everything to do with limited amounts of free time. Most adults don’t have much time to game. During the few hours they get, they’d rather not have them feel wasted. Getting group together to go on a quest, getting PKed and griefed, group splits up, nothing accomplished == waste of time.

        • I don’t think it has anything to do with “limited amounts of free time,” since the time that gamers had back in the 90s was just as limited as yours. But, for some reason, they weren’t afraid of a challenge.

          • I played diablo in the 90s and had limited time too. and you’re a dick!

            seriously get off other people ass because you don’t agree with them.

            I’m not flaming the people who want pvp out of the game just because I want PKing

  12. No choice in the survey actually represented my thoughts on PvP, but D3 style was closest, so it got my vote.

    Personally, I don’t care about PvP at all.  But I want it in the game, arena style, and not on separate ‘realms’.  Why?  Greed.  PvPers are well known for paying crazy amounts for items (whether for twinks or max level) that are 0.1% better than common items.  I want those kinda people around, whether for RMAH or GAH (hardcore).

  13. i voted 4.  however, i really wouldn’t care if they added a dueling option.  Just as long as its not possible to PK.

  14. How is “consesual duels” in games not even an option? That is the solution that basically every game uses.

    Also why do some people hate pvp so much? If you really don’t care why do you have to be such a tool about it?

    • Also why do some people hate pvp so much? If you really don’t care why do you have to be such a tool about it?

      See my post, above.  I like the stated design direction that PvP balance will not affect the core game.  I don’t care about PvP at all but that means I don’t want to hear about creative game builds being nerfed to support PvP balance.

      D2 had a lot of crazy builds that were viable.  My hope is that a large percentage of the billions of D3 builds are also viable.  That’s a lot harder to do if people are concerned about how fair each of those builds is in the arena.

      (That said, I think the idea of arena is great–let people who want to pvp do so. I just also thing the idea of it not being an e-sport and therefore tightly balanced is also great.)

  15. I’d support consensual duels, as long as there was a toggle somewhere that lets you ignore them completely for all time.
    “SpazzyMcGrief has challenged you to a duel.”
    “You decline.”
    “SpazzyMcGrief has challenged you to a duel.”
    “You decline.”
    “SpazzyMcGrief has challenged you to a duel.”
    “You decline.”
    “SpazzyMcGrief has challenged you to a duel.”
    “You decline.”
    “SpazzyMcGrief has challenged you to a duel.”
    “You decline.”

    • I totally want to name a D3 char “SpazzyMcGrief” now.  Pity it’s more than the allowed number of letters…

  16. I love arena style PvP – the whole cooperative nature of it, team work, watching out for each other

    that’s why I love the scenarios in Warhammer Online 
    I wish there were more arena style options, not just “kill the other team”, but “capture the objective” 

    I would be TOTALLY in favor of hardcore arena PvP

  17. The ideal choice would be this: to have arenas as well as PK options.
    Problem solved.
    The reason I want a “PK” type option or some equivalent is due to my belief that there should be some way to have open games where people can come and go as they please with no obligation. Kind of like a dedicated server for TF2, or something. People can drop in, shoot around a little, leave, etc. It could even be arena-based for all I care.

    I think what made PvP work in D2 was the no-obligation attached to it. When you are in an arena, you are obligated to play 10 minutes. While that might not seem like a big investment, some people may just want to drop in for just a few minutes, and not have to deal with a 4 player team.

    My mentality changes when I’m on a team. I hate losing when I’m on a team, because your losses can be completely out of your control. Teamwork is something extremely limited in quantity on the internet, which would in turn require more investment in training a team. (I’m okay with this, and enjoy arenas immensely, but it takes an entirely different mindset than no-obligation PvP, like “pking” or free-PvP)
    Anyways, I could write a 50 page manifesto of my PvP musing for Diablo 3, but I’ll spare my insight for.. perhaps a thread.

    • Please write that thread 🙂

      It feels wierd to have them spend so much time on the areas not to let us PvP in the open world!

  18. I voted for 4 probably because of my experience with WoW.  I play on multiple PvE servers so I don’t worry about being ganked in the middle of questing.  After 2 years of PvEing I entered some battlegrounds and really enjoyed the experience.  Point being, don’t be too quick to throw out PvP… it may be a very satisfying end-game mechanic.  Just keep it in a nice and tidy corner (arena).

  19. As I was reading through the options I realized they didn’t have an option that I wanted at all. I really want the current system (D3 arena) with ladder. I don’t care if it is completely balanced or not, I just want to have some sort of a ranking relative to others. I want something that makes PvP feel more… well, competitive. There are plenty of games out there that had rankings that weren’t completely balanced and were still fun and competitive (pretty much all the command and conquer games come to mind… especially RA3, which was not balanced from the beginning, and I still found it very fun online play). My guess for how pvp will turn out in d3 is that it will be unintentionally sort of balanced anyway similar to D2. Don’t get me wrong, I know PvP wasn’t really balanced per se in D2, but every class had some “OP” build that made them viable in PvP. Anyway, my point is that D3 will probably be similar, and though it could never probably be an e-sport, there is enough demand for a ladder system regardless of balance that I would hope that they would eventually implement it.

  20. I never really cared for PvP in Diablo (besides the lulz factor). If I want competitive gaming I play SC, CS, or even some casual multiplayer game like L4D. You know, games designed with competition in mind? With that said, it seems weird that D3 doesn’t have world PvP. They’re really gonna spend 6 years making all these levels and then make people PvP in tiny square rooms?
    Also, they’ve already mentioned that they’ll keep spells separate between Arenas/PvE. No worry about balances for PvP messing up your weird PvE build.

  21. I like the idea of this poll, but it lacks some important choices in my opinion.
    E) D3 style arenas, also, mutually accepted duals in regular games
    F) Some sort of ranked arenas whether it be a visible rating or a win/loss ratio.

    • I agree with you whole heartedly! Not great poll options at the moment unfortunately. It’s probably too late to add these options, maybe a whole new poll would be justified?

  22. I vote both d2 style and the arena, cuz the arenas cool imo. but still. when that kid in the pub game won’t shut up (which will be made even worse when its a 12 year old with a mic) I want to slay him.

  23. What i never personally understood is why are people so obssessed with competetivness in games. I can understand it to some point IRL, being competetive and subsequently winning may give you better job, more money, better girlfriend/boyfriend, etc, but in games, in virtual world? For me at least, usual evolutionary reasons simply don´t aply, you are not exactly competing over any real resources or females when you do some PvP or fight in in-game arena. Size of your e-peen? Why does that even matter?. Are you really going to feel so much better about yourself if you have some great score in arena, or is your ego going to get so much boosted by that. Maybe I´m just not competetive so I don´t “get” it, but it seems… irrelevant to me.


      To be competitive is in your genes I think, but it has nothing to do with testosterone, since girls can be just as competitive as men.

      I can however say for my own part, that I have always tried to be competitive in most things, that I have done; In high school, getting my degree in classics, learning languages( i know 8 at the moment), sports. I used to practice taekwondo on a competitive level ect.(now I just work out)…. maybe it´s my upbringing. I don´t know.

  24. My only concern is if they will support 1v1 pvp like they will support the rest of arenas (2v2 3v3 etc.). Will they include 1v1 in arenas? A simple option for dueling would not satisfy me at all.

  25. A few months ago, in a thread on this topic, I had said that I would be fine with a PvP toggle; you start a game, turn the PvP toggle on, then invite players or open the game or however the matching syetem works. You know before you start or join a game what you are getting into, so no whining. This plus an arena system seems the best way to go, in my opinion.

    And the immature “you’re not man enough” arguments are really tired already. What is sad about them is that if people played D1/D2 when they were relevant, these people have to be, at the youngest…22-23? By that age, if you are still having issues with your masculinity, you have bigger problems than how D3 is made. And if you are older than that, well, that is really pathetic.

  26. Well from the results alone we can conclude that the wow carebears have found this website.

    Sad day indeed.

    • Must be including you, unless you just didn’t know about how hard the campaign was to get pk switch taken out during LoD’s development?
      Nah, you wouldn’t know about that. We’re all just stupid carebears, that’s more convenient.

    • i love carebears, but not wow. I love killing monsters and them dropping shinnies for me, but not killing other characters.

  27. It is amazing how many of these comments unintentionally make a strong case for the opposite of what was intended.
    Using the term carebear?  Insulting the ‘skill’ of anyone that doesn’t like pvp?  In general, typing with the wit and wisdom of a 13-year-old that just discovered swearing?  Wow, I don’t want anything to do with people like you.  I certainly don’t want to waste my time playing online games with you.  You are not going to play D3 because it isn’t a pvp-based game?  I think I need to send Jay Wilson a Christmas present for brilliant game design.
    In case it isn’t clear to you, every serious gamer is a geek to the rest of the world.  You want to be a tough guy?  Go take up kickboxing or cage fighting or something.  But /flexing about how your digital monk can use his exploding palm strike to beat my digital wizard with her magic missiles?  Seriously?  Look in the mirror dude.  Accept the (angry, confused) geek dressed in all black that is staring back at you.

    • I agree with much of what you say here.

      I’ve never minded being called carebear though because I don’t PvP in mmos/rpgs.  My PvP is strictly done in shooters because I get much more from it there than I could from any mmo/rpg I’ve played.  Even in those games it still makes me smile when people flex their virtual muscles in game, like there’s a correlation between their character and themselves.

      Bravado is part of PvP though, you can’t go head to head without some baiting and chest puffing – even if it is from behind the safety of your monitor and away from critical eyes, it’s still part of the culture.

      • Bravado, chest pumping, etc., comes with any competition. Beauty pageants, chess, MMA, basketball, video games, and so on…
        I never had any problems with competition, but I think the newer generations are scared of it.
        “oooooh, i dont wanna get killed by a player and have him tell me im a noob… thats scary…. ooooh”

        Let’s just have a nice game where I can wake up in the morning, take my antidepressants, and kill a few monsters that anyone with a brain could kill.

    • Just because you’re an angry nerd doesn’t imply that everyone who games is one. Have you also been so delusional from playing WoW that you haven’t noticed it’s currently the year 2011? Everyone plays video games, even kick-boxers. 

      I strive for competition. Both in the real world and in game. And no I don’t resort to violence, only someone with a barbaric and obdurate mindset like yourself would think that’s the only way of being tough. Calling someone like yourself a carebear isn’t a display of toughness, it’s the truth. Whether you like it or not, PvP is the epitome of true skill. If my character owns you, I’m better than you. 

      In fact what I’m most excited about D3 is PKing and griefing every single WoW player so I can show their place. I have played WoW before, so I understand what the playerbase is like (99% retarded). I played at most 7 hours a week, got Gladiator in multiple seasons, and then sold my account for $1200. Easiest game in the fucking world. I could’ve sold for more but expensive things don’t deserve to be in WoW, so I sold it to the guy cheap. Oh, and I’m by no means a “serious gamer”. I can list off my achievements here but that would probably destroy whatever remaining ego that you have left. You can thank me later.

      • Whether you like it or not, PvP is the epitome of true skill. If my character owns you, I’m better than you.
        Skill isn’t 1-dimensional.  If you character “owns” me, then you are better than me–at pvp in a virtual game world.  It doesn’t mean anything more than that.  I feel sorry for you if you think it does.
        There are a lot of things that are difficult, aka require skill, but to test that the participants have to be interested in it.  I get the feeling you think I’ve tried and tried and tried to be good at pvp and never got there so now I say I don’t like it.  But the truth is I’ve never tried it because it doesn’t interest me.  So I’ve never practiced it, never read about it, never planned for it, you name it–I’ve done something else with my time.  I’m not saying that pvp doesn’t require skill.  But if you want to test it against me, it’s not a good test.  I just find that you go from there to chest-pumping, calling me a noob, a carebear, and assume that I suck at video games in general laughable.  You are good at pvp.  Grats.  That’s where it ends dude, sorry.
        Everyone plays video games, even kick-boxers.
        Yeah, OK.  Do you kick box?  Do you think because you are good at pvp in video games it makes you a tough guy like a kick boxer?  Lets say we both kick box at a world class level.  If you beat me in a video game with wizards, do you think that means something about what would happen in a real life kick boxing match?  If you do, again, I feel sorry for you.
        The saddest part it that it seems that you (and people like you) think I (and people like me) care about being competitive in video games.  I don’t.  I’ve been playing video games all my life, I’m good at them, and I like playing them.  I just like playing against AI challenges, not human ones.  I don’t care if you think that requires more or less skill.
        I’m just trying to help you out, because you seem so angry.  If you wonder why some people vote the way they do in surveys like this, it’s because people like you are in their (virtual) face spitting in rage about how much of a noob they are and how you are going to own them.  For the majority of people, that just want to have some fun playing a video game, that makes you pretty annoying.  I don’t know you and from the way you represent yourself via your writing I’ve very glad I don’t know you.

        • Timesink you know what I hate? I hate hypocrits, and you have shown, that you are exactly the biggest one in here.

        • I’m not exactly sure why you feel the need to bring up real life scenarios constantly. I have never made any sort of correlation between in game success and real life success. Seriously, your insecurities are written all over your posts.

          The simple truth, and the point that I’m trying to make, is this:
          It’s people like YOU that killed any PvP fun that could’ve been had in D3.
          It’s people like YOU that whines non stop on the forums because you can’t win.
          It’s people like YOU that is going to make D3 an ezmode game.

      • “In fact what I’m most excited about D3 is PKing and griefing every single WoW player so I can show their place.”
        You are aware this is not possible in D3, right? You can not PK, grief or gank…there is no PvP option in regular games.

  28. PVP is not about bravado or chest puffing. It’s about having fun with the items that you farm. It’s the reason you farm mephisto 1000 times to get that shiny new legendary. You want to have some fun with it, and not just kill meph 15% faster, you want to test your character against another. This is an indication of whether you are doing the right things, finding the right items and is awesome fun.
    I really doubt many people here played pvp in Diablo 2. PVP is why people are still playing after 10 years (myself included). Without PVP, the game would be like Torchlight. You kill the monsters, you farm the bosses and then what? What do you do then? NOTHING. People quit the game, PVP provides longevity, and it did in Diablo 2.
    However, we do have inferno which will do the same and the sheer complexity of the system will provide some long term, but eventually people will want to have fun testing their characters against HUMAN players, not automated bosses that will eventually be easy to kill. Long term there needs to be a drive for obtaining items and for farming inferno and losing your gold and dying. Why else would you spend 20+ hours farming? You might finish the game and be level 60 then what do you do? There is an end game point, and that is where PVP provided longevity for Diablo 2.
    I really think people dislike PVP because they were never apart of it and didn’t experience how fun it was and how much it added to the game (Diablo 2).

    • “PVP is not about bravado or chest puffing.”

      Nope it’s not about it but, as I say, it’s part of it for sure. I’ve seen loads of people over the years bragging/showing off/goading…nothing wrong with that.

      • it´s usually pve people who brag about their gear, since most people who pvp have pvp gear on(or similar gear), so that skill is the only thing that matter in fights. At least that´s my own experience.

    • lawlord, what you are saying is well and good, but it is completely separated from the issue of a PK switch which is what the children are crying tears of black emo blood over.

      I think that, for what little Blizzard is providing as far as PVP goes in D3, the reason I’m going to play is just to witness the moments of pure random-ness and chaos that will result from an imbalanced game that isn’t pretending to be anything else. The mixture of skills (runed) between characters and teams should be a grand thing to behold, even if they choose to support it in only the barest sense.

      • That’s fair enough, I was more addressing the “no PVP at all” crowd, which is seemingly a large contingent. I feel they should respect other players wishes to play the game. I do think PK switch inhibits people who just want to play PVM, which they should be allowed to do.
        A modification, such as requesting duels should be allowed. We should have some fighting outside of the arena because it will be part of the fun of fighting in the world Blizzard has created.

  29. I really think people dislike PVP because they were never apart of it and didn’t experience how fun it was and how much it added to the game (Diablo 2).
    I should stop posting on this topic but I’ll give it one more go.
    I played D2 for years and years.  The only thing that made me stop was WoW.  Once I discovered it, I played only hardcore D2.  In hardcore “pvp” was only TPPK hacks or whatever it was called.  It completely ruined (for me) any sense of community.  I never really joined or made public games–safer to farm Meph in a 2 player game (I had 2 copies of D2).  It taught me a intense dislike of PvP.  So much so that I was thrilled to learn WoW had PvE servers.  Six+ years of WoW later and I’ve barely touched pvp aspects of the game.  I have, however, made a number of online friends.  Something that never happened in D2.
    I get that people like PvP.  Which is why I think the arena is a great addition.  But PK flagging trumpeted as if it is some indication of skill?  No thanks.  I can assure you I will play hours of D2 and I will never once enter the arena–regardless if they make HC deaths non-permanent or not.  Why do I farm items?  To give to my other characters…especially the ones that need a rare items for some unique build.  I look forward to the fact that I can join random public games and not worry about my level 60 HC character dying to some speed hack.
    Just look at the results of surveys like this.  PvP might have prolonged D2 for some, but it was a blight on the game for others.  Blizzard has announced one of the underlying goals of D3’s design is “nothing harms co-op play”.  There are going to be PvP options at launch (arena) and those options will expand (as promised at Blizzcon).  But understand just how much of the D3 population has no interest in getting involved in it, especially involuntarily.

    • I will say I agree with you. I don’t want world PVP where you can be jumped by hostility. I knew this ruined HC.
      I actually don’t care if we have PK flagging. I don’t want to interrupt people who don’t want to play PVP. Seriously I respect people’s decision who just want to play PVM. But I think playing with your friends and having a bit of fun while leveling and challenging them to a duel would be a good implementation. Mainly because you can test your items against your friends, who is stronger at the moment or something.
      But it would have to be intiated and accepted, not thrust upon an unwilling person.
      I only played softcore PVP. I understand why HC can be fun. Especially since a strong end game goal is to equip your characters. But Softcore moves so much faster. You level out all your characters quickly and find the items you need. Then for me it was PVP. Equipping my other characters so they can fight monsters better is no real fun to me.
      In the article linked where it discusses Max Scheaffer’s view I agree with him, don’t force an only PVM, because PVP is a big part of the game for some people. It made Diablo 2 for me, otherwise I would have quit after 6 months probably like most people. I played that game religiously for over 10 years.
      I have no problem with people who love HC, or people who don’t want to play PVP, but please don’t go out of your way to ruin it for others.
      The dev’s have already said PVP will not inform PVM skills or builds or items, and is now relegated to the arena only. This is okay, but give us the ability to request duels in game (with spam prevention), give us 1v1 and 2v2, 3v3 duels in the Arena, and a ladder system of ANY kind. This just makes the game better for everyone. For those who don’t like PVP, dont participate. Which is the same argument for the RMAH. If you don’t like it, don’t use it!

  30. I am sorry that cheats and HC ruined your opinion of PVP. This is truly an unfortunate situation. Obviously I would hope that hacks are not an issue in D3 and I would also be against a hostile button in HC as that just ruins HC.

    I do not think a hostile button in softcore is so bad but I realize it is unpopular. I think that your problems with PVP are legitimate complaints but I do not think they reflect on PVP in general. I really hope you do end up trying out arenas and feeling the excitement.

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