Vote: Which is Reaper of Souls Weakest Class?

Vote: Which is Reaper of Souls Weakest Class?

Almost everyone agrees that the Wizard is the strongest class. Let’s flip that coin over today. Which is Reaper of Souls Weakest Class? This follow up vote was requested in the comments last time, so here we go, with community consensus on where next the buff-stick must fall.

Which is the weakest class in Reaper of Souls, as of Patch 2.0.4?

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Here’s the related poll from last week. The results might change slightly if we re-voted this today, thanks to DiabloWikiPatch 2.0.4 fixing a couple of bugs that were boosting the Wizard’s spell damage, but every Wizard player I know is still pretty happy with the class.

Possibly the Crusader has separated himself a bit since the last vote, thanks to Patch 2.0.4 delivering substantial buffs to most of his skills, but none of the other classes got much of an improvement in the recent patch. It’ll be interesting to see how the Monk does in this “weakest” vote, given that Bliz felt he was perfectly balanced as of earlier this week.

Which class is the strongest at this point in Reaper of Souls?

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The other related poll from the last triple vote post asked what you guys felt about balance on the whole, and I was surprised that only a third of you guys really want near-perfect balance. I don’t think that degree of balance is possible in a game like Diablo 3, with hundreds of skills for each class and so much potential variance in gear quality, but I expected more of the voters to demand it.

How do you feel about class balance as a development theory?

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Comment on what you like, but I’m curious to hear people’s opinions of which class is weakest, and why, and what should be changed (if anything) to buff them. I very seldom see anyone saying “nerf X right now!” Most players are find with the upper end of the power curve (Wizard), they just want other classes boosted to equivalency. Which can be easier said than done. For instance, I’m very dissatisfied with the Monk in RoS, after he was my main for most of D3, and I can’t really say what’s wrong. He just feels sluggish, like he’s lost IAS in his Generators, and none of the spenders are buffed to offset it.

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36 thoughts on “Vote: Which is Reaper of Souls Weakest Class?

  1. Crusader still has Wrath generation problems; he has one Wrath passive, and that’s it. Everyone else has a rune on at least one or two “primary” skills which increases the resource generated; everyone else has off-hands/quivers/dual wield which raises IAS (which is good for primary generators). Shields need IAS, period. Base Wrath per attack needs to go up. Wrath on Block should be a natural passive (Barbs get hit, they get Fury), which can be boosted further w/ a real passive or gear.

    • I don’t mind that Wrath regen is kinda slow, what I mind is that so many of the spenders still feel weak. It’d be fine if he he uses his spenders less if they hit really hard when you do use them.

      Also – shorten the damn CDs!

      • They may hit really hard when you use them, but w/ Rifts, you’re clearing the entire screen multiple times fairly quickly. If you blast the whole screen dead, rinse and repeat, you’re going to run out of batteries. Should you be able to clear an entire Rift w/ a single tank of Wrath? Everyone else can nuke, but then recover fairly quickly, through a variety of ways, a variety of gear-independent ways. Hunters and Doctors get a watered down Reaper’s Wraps out of the box, no crafting needed. The Crusader has Provoke, which is pretty good, but the Barb has Stomp, Leap, Charge, and War Cry. What about Iron Skin? What about Judgement? Just all sorts of problems that other classes already solved earlier.

  2. IMO, a more interesting question than “who’s the strongest/weakest” is “who’s got the most/least variety of good options”. If a class has one or two really good, strong, competitive attacks but everything else is garbage, I don’t consider that a “strong” class. In my mind, the “strongest” class is the one with the most options for putting together solid builds.

    There is nothing, IMO, that would do more to improve this game right now than for Blizz to finally take a serious look at ALL the skills AND runes that are almost never used and do *something* to make them worth our while. Like, it’s been two years already, can Blizz finally give me a reason to use Wall of Zombies??

  3. As long as the crusader is the slowest class by far, it’ll remain the worst class. Even if they end up having the best damage and survivability, the inefficiency of being slow makes it a terrible class in a game that’s all about farming and clearspeed. You simply cannot have a class that’s so far behind the others in one of the most important aspects of the game. They’ll need to completely redesign Steed Charge to make it comparable to the other travel skills, it’s not even remotely close to things like Sprint and Vault. If D3 were a job, the crusader simply gets paid less than everybody else.

    • I love my crusader and I disagree. There is simply no point of class differentiation if crusader, the heavy tank, gets sprint/vault/dashing strike. Crusader is designed around cooldowns and the feel of crusader should remain like that.

      Re: slow comment, if you want to farm, you can set to T1 or normal (depending on gear), use 1 hand and stack cooldown reduction – no movement or attack speed or clear problems. If you want to do damage, you can use 2 hand and stack crit dmg. It’s hard to do both, but crusader makes up for it with the burst.

      Finally, Crusader is amazing in HC.

  4. QUOTE

    I love my crusader and I disagree. There is simply no point of class differentiation if crusader, the heavy tank, gets sprint/vault/dashing strike. Crusader is designed around cooldowns and the feel of crusader should remain like that.

    You don’t understand the point at all.

      • he said
        “the inefficiency of being slow makes it a terrible class in a game that’s all about farming and clearspeed”

        he probably means they’ve designed the Crusader as if this were an mmo instead of an arpg

        if this were an mmo and your party needed a heavy defensive tank to stand toe to toe with the boss for 10 minutes while the dps classes stood in back and did damage then the Crusader would be fine

        but this is a fast paced, lots of quick moving mobs ARPG

        the idea is to get into a Rift, find and kill the boss as fast as you can, and then get out and repeat all night long

        He’s saying the Crusader is just slow when you have many many mobs coming at you from all sides and you need to kill them quickly and move on to the next mob and onto the next rift

        he’s saying the game is all about clear speed and the Crusader fails at this

        of course if you play single player then this is not a problem
        and if you think the game isn’t all about clear speed then you don’t even acknowledge the problem exists
        and if you believe the Crusader is indeed designed as a Tank then maybe the problem exists, but that’s ok, because as a tank he SHOULD fail at this

        I had high hopes for the Crusader, it was the only reason I bought the expansion
        I wanted to be charging and smashing through mobs with my shield and see them fly across the screen
        but I found the Crusader EXTREMELY boring and slow
        so disappointed
        obviously I didn’t understand the design goals and philosophy they had in mind when the made the class

  5. Monk. Though that’s rather because it’s least interesting class for me. To say the most, that’s the only Vanilla class that I didn’t leveled to 60. Even WD, whom I played for a brief time, has some nice skills that I enjoyed. Nothing here for Monk.

  6. Like Flux, for some reason I find the Monk post-RoS not very fun to play. He doesn’t exactly feel weak, just, somehow meh. I think his passive selection is largely to blame, and the fact that epiphany is lame. Incidentally I thought the Wizard was terrible pre-patch 2.0 and RoS, yet with 2.0 she became fantastic, and only better with RoS, and is still awesome after they fixed the bugs to her damage, etc. Barbarian is way better in RoS too.

    I’ve been playing through the story with a Crusader who is now 70, and he feels much improved since the patch, but the jury is still out on him for me. I’m playing him on Normal and it’s a lot of fun, but I don’t know if it would still be as fun at a more challenging level. I like his aesthetics and he has some very cool powers, and I like that he creates a reason to use shields and two-handers, which I would otherwise never touch… especially since drop rates seem to have an uncanny way of throwing TONS of legendary two-handers at everyone. I find wrath the hardest resource to manage out of all the classes. We’ll see.

  7. problem with crusaders is wrath gen agreed but alot of crusader gear needs certain attributes like shields granting attributes from weapons when slotted with gems, IAS, wrath regen per second and quite possibly more block since its useless in torment and above

    also 2handed weapons does anyone use em…. long story yes short story no there fodder i think that they should be allowed to roll 2 socs… i i tend to use em for is vendor fodder if there legendary items

  8. Can’t speak for all the classes, but I do partially agree with flux on the monk issue.

    The problem I have found is that they will simply never deal the damage other classes do, but instead enable all other characters to deal even more DPS while controlling the battlefield. This is fine in groups, but does not allow for proper solo play.

    With that said, the monk has some crazy survivability potential. I was able to just stand in huge aoe bombs and laugh it off while everyone else in my party had to run around like chickens… Too bad I didn’t actually deal any damage while looking so damn tough.

    • In D3v the Monk always had bad sheet DPS, but played much above it. In comparable gear the DH would have 180k vs. 100k on the Monk, but the Monk would actually feel faster/stronger (I played both extensively) in part because he didn’t have to retreat during combat, so his damage was constantly dealing out. He was never great on single targets, but not having to kite and lots of AoE made him efficient overall, and great in parties.

      Partially the Monk’s numbers are/were low since he had very limited +damage skills and especially since he’s got zero passives that directly boost offense. One Weapons Master or Archery type passive (or any of the Wizard’s half dozen amazing passives) would make a huge diff. Or if any of his Spirit companions had a direct offensive boost the way Wolf Companion or Familiar does.

      But also due to the overall combat changes, everyone is less squishy now, so the Monk’s “doesn’t have to kite” advantage is largely removed, especially compared to the DH. This makes him feel worse in comparison, which might be the issue, more than the Monk being worse in of himself.

      • thus the DH is the weakest class. i have so-so damage that with comparable chars i can play torment. but with the DH i am stuck on master and i still die a lot. they need base DR big time or huge speed/damage buffs that will inevitably make everyone else cry. they are still WAAAAY too squishy.

        • I’m convinced the Hunter and Monk problems relate to the stupid defensive secondary effects of Dexterity. Dodge chance just isn’t as good as armor, and that isn’t as good as resist all. The whole point of the defensive secondary effects was so that people wouldn’t freak out that their wizard orb had a little strength or dexterity on it. Well, that didn’t work, and they prevent that altogether now. They even quickly changed the new paragon to make it impossible to get the other stats boosted at all. Your Hunter will have 77 strength and intelligence 800 paragon and beyond.

          So, since dodge sucks compared to the other two, they need to rectify this. First, dump the secondary effects. Second, split armor and resist all to do different things; armor for melee and resist all for ranged. Third, change the gems; one gem for main stat, that changes based on the class wearing it (this will free up other gems to do more interesting things, like life regeneration and resource management).

          • Live Stream I was on during the beta was with the main DH dev John Yang and he was very open to a buff to Dodge, since he freely admitted it was much less powerful defensively than Armor or Res All. The issue with Dodge is it’s an all or nothing, rather than mitigation like the other 2, and it doesn’t work against some things like ground elemental effects.

            John’s suggestion was to add some mitigation to Dodge, and/or to make it work against all elemental effects. He wasn’t opposed to giving the DH a death cheating passive either, as the WD/Wiz/Monk have. None of that has happened yet, but big char rebalance wheels turn slowly.

            Details in the post.

        • I play the DH almost exclusively and I can tell they aren’t weak at all.

          In fact, they are the only class to rival the Wiz in pure damage output.

          There are multiple build paths that work, and plenty of skills and passives that are completely viable now (that were not in D3v).

          Think outside the box a little bit and you’re find very powerful builds.

          • yeah, I’ve never played the demon hunter but I watch the twitch stream of nugiyen and he rocks the DH hard
            he makes it looks easy and awesome
            its just not my style though

      • I think the Monk and Crusader are considered lower tier classes at the moment purely in terms of killing speed. However it’s such a gear dependant game and I’ll occasionally join games where either of those classes are tearing it up though not as often as the barbs\wizards\dhs of course.

        I think the thing is most people aren’t at that super geared level yet and are mainly speaking from levelling to 70 and a bit beyond that. It could be closer with fully maxed chars.

        I think the balance is very delicate because making even slight tweaks for lower geared chars makes big differences when the numbers become much higher later on.

        I think Blizzard should address “useless” runes like some people have said. Some skills have 1 rune that is by far the best rune and this really lowers build variety.

  9. When you feel your monk skuggish probably is because of this

    Compare the 2. That was my monk in vanilla pre-ros and the same monk recently imported to RoS beta.

    With better gear, my monk has trouble to kill mobs as fast as my wizz friend who hasn’t updated his eq since the first few days. He can kill everything faster than I do, a lot faster.
    My crusader friend just got up to my pdps in a few days (I have been playing consistently since day 1) and also reached my edps (azmodan on t1) today.

    I feel like doing a lot less dmg with better gear than my friends.

    Now, epiphany. That skill has potential, but is like the watered down version of all the other comparable skills, like archon, berzerk and/or acarat. It needs improvement and a better dps output.

    How come wizz have 15% dps boost just like that and another 15% dps or something boost to enemies in a 20 yard radius. Monks can only get 20% with unity on a 4 people party :/

  10. I’m surprised that son many people voted for witch doctor. Maybe is this based on before the pet crit damage fix or maybe do they use a petless build. But I’m very happy with my Witch Doctor since last patch.

    No single Witch doctor ability or pet deals a lot of damage but all of it together is really strong. Like when you use fetish sycophants+fire bats+haunt+zombie dogs+gargantuan damage on a single boss. The downside of WD is that you can’t really direct or focus a lot of this damage.

  11. Monk plays well until late game imo, but early on he’s kicks it. The game has always lacked when it comes to class specific items being of any use and that goes for d2 as well. The generic super loots were almost always the main stable of strength for all my chars.

    Since they want to play this stupid game of limiting our stash space and making it unnecessarily painful so that we have to keep stopping the enjoyable run and keep moving and forcing us to make space which leads to keeping only gear that can most definitely be reused this isn’t ever going to change.

    It really is a most fundamental flaw in the overall game design and won’t be addressed because they don’t think it needs to be. Problem is, if they expand space then they will need to make better class specific items because it will be soooo obvious to everyone that the content isn’t there.

    The fact that they don’t give the extra space has nothing to do with server space since they keep it the same on console. Its basically a horse blinder put onto the game to stop us from seeing this illusion of a lack of real itemization.

    They’re still pissing around with sets and uniques and theres no sight ever for charms/runes/jewels/h.cubes or any of that. Lack of variety, lack of control. Its fun to be able to find base items to build something awesome on. But not in this game, thus no real use for class specific items. I don’t know why they put them in.

  12. The main problem with dodge is that it doesn’t work on the attacks you’d care about. It being all or nothing matters less when combats last long enough to let it average out better.

    Revert it as it was, where everything was dodgeable or close and it’d be a worthy stat.

  13. Monk’s seem quite powerful to me. I don’t even have all the items I would like for my fire build and I’m already dissolving T3 solo. They have higher gear requirements than usual, however, because it’s not optimal if you don’t gear with One with Everything in mind.

    I’ve tried Witch Doctor and Demon Hunter but both of those classes seem clunky, to me, somehow. The Doctor especially seems to require more effort to accomplish the same thing that the other classes can achieve easily. Whereas the Demon Hunter has woefully unpowered hatred generators versus high-costed spenders and little support for what *should* be a viable alternative character builds, like poison or lightning damage.

  14. I don’t see how monk gets so many votes. My friend’s monks are regularly critting for 30-40 million with LTK. My barbarian hasn’t crit for more than 6k with hammer. This isn’t to say that my dps is the same as theirs, but if I put so much focus into my dps I’d be dead constantly. Monks manage to survive without incredible amounts of toughness due to good CC and mobility. Barb has pretty good CC and mobility, but dashing strike is way better than anything barb has, and our CC requires use of supplemental skills rather than throwing it on our aoe builder and spender.

    The only reason I’d say Crusader is worse than Barb is because of the TF/SOH combo. These 2 weapons are digusting on barb and monk and destroy the game. Crusader is probably better than barb in general, or they’re tied for worst. Monk might not be as awesome as DH and Wizard, but they’re quite good.

  15. I guess it’s a good sign that every time someone says “class X feels weak” someone else comes in and says they see the class doing well. That’s pretty much never been the case since release. Though again, I’d be more interested in which class has the widest variety of good skills than just which class has the most powerful one or two.

  16. QUOTE

    I guess it's a good sign that every time someone says "class X feels weak" someone else comes in and says they see the class doing well. That's pretty much never been the case since release. Though again, I'd be more interested in which class has the widest variety of good skills than just which class has the most powerful one or two.

    That’d most likely be Wizard or Witch Doctor (as much as people obsess about FO).

    Reason: Simple process of elimination.

    We know it isn’t Barbs and Crusaders, so many nerfs.
    Demon Hunters and Monks had many of their skills nerfed, largely leaving them with Cluster Arrow and Lashing Tail Kick as primary offensive options respectively with their other skills acting as support at best.
    Wizards still have AT and Disintegrate, possibly Meteor with a heavy fire set.
    I’m not exactly sure what WDs are doing, but it doesn’t all sound like the same thing.

  17. Are there any Wiz face rolling T6 like the others? DH struggle to survive there too, but they can do way more damage usually. So my vote is Wiz.

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