Vote: How do you feel about the new changes and delays? - Diabloii.Net

Vote: How do you feel about the new changes and delays?


After the long-awaited systems change info was revealed this morning, it was obvious we needed to run a vote about the topic. My first inclination was to ask which of the changes you guys liked best, but while looking over the comments on Battle.net, Facebook, in our forum, and especially the 150 175+ replies on the news post here, the fan discontent over the changes and the general state of D3’s development became very evident.

So, rather than listing like 6 of the bigger changes, and then throwing in some kind of “none of the above no release date this sucks arrrgh” option at the end, (and watching it take 57% of the votes) let’s just cut to the chase. Pick the option that comes the closest to your general opinion of the current development status of Diablo III. If you’d like to add complaints about the vote options to your general loathing of D3’s interminable dev cycle, that’s what the comments are for.


How do you feel about D3's dev progress, in light of all the new system changes?

  • 2) The new changes are okay, but hurry up. (45%, 2,067 Votes)
  • 3) The new changes are stupid over-iterations. Not worth the delays. (27%, 1,257 Votes)
  • 4) I don't care about the details and have been furious at the delays since 2010. (14%, 653 Votes)
  • 1) The new changes are awesome and so is the dev progress. (13%, 605 Votes)

Total Voters: 4,584

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Last Vote Results

The last poll asked how you guys were planning to play Diablo III in the weeks after its release. I didn’t have any strong expectations of the results, but I did think that #2 would win, with more people eager to rush through all the content and get into the end game. I also thought #3 would pull more than 11%, since that’s my tentative plan, although much of that is predicated on needing to play them all for site info gathering purposes. No, there was no point to this paragraph. I am very tired.

How will you play Diablo III immediately after release?

  • 3) Completist = slow but very thorough. (43%, 3,164 Votes)
  • 1) Race one character through to level 60+. (33%, 2,391 Votes)
  • 2) Play all 5 classes in turn, at least through normal. (11%, 835 Votes)
  • 4) Hardcore from the start! I will suffer! (8%, 577 Votes)
  • 6) Don’t know yet. Undecided. (4%, 298 Votes)
  • 5) Beg a friend to rush me. Lazy. (1%, 46 Votes)

Total Voters: 7,311

Comments

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  1. It’s impossible to know how much these changes actually delayed the game since they’re already implemented.
    They did toss and turn with the development cycle, but this happens all the freaking time for all companies.

    It’s just publicized, and thus everyone freaks out about it.

    As for the changes themselves?
    Meh, they tried to shake up the stats, went back to something more D2-ish.
    They originally had a potion button in the 2010 demo, and decided to put it back in.
    All minor, but good changes.

    The Nephalem cube thing, I’m not mad over but that’s the only thing gamers could be legitimately angry about for their playstyles.

    • I have to agree that it’s impossible to know the effects on the progression of the game these changes had, cause these could have been things a small group could have been working on that were not involved with the other major Rune changes.
       
      That said, its time for Morhaime to bring the hammer down on this team.  A hard dead line is the only way to get them to stop needlessly iterating.  Its one thing if the system is half broken and needs to be reworked, it’s another thing to have a perfectly fine system tossed out just because you feel that you have a slightly “better” idea.  Only to throw out the new “better” one for the old one a few weeks later.
       
      I am not upset at the any of the changes, I just liked the Neph cube it gave me an outlet for my OCD.

    • – Meh, they tried to shake up the stats, went back to something more D2-ish. –
       
      I wonder, how much where the stats actually changed, for all the info i’ve seen they might have just changed the names from what i can tell…
       
      Well they got rid of defense, and none of the new ones seem to have a name that hint at replacing that, but Dex = precision and Str = attack easy…
       
      So, any info i missed?
       
       

      • “but Dex = precision and Str = attack easy…”

        Yes, if you completely disregard what those stats actually do.

        • You misunderstood the question… the last post on this site didn’t get into specifics about the actual mechanics changes for the attributes, just that they’re simpler…
           
          Since i posted that i loked around and saw the info… although frankly they’re more like a restructuring of attack into different places…
           

      • @Random 

        Defense was renamed Amor, and as a result, Armor now provides mitigation of all damage, regardless of type.

        Armor was renamed Physical Resistance, and works the same, it decreases physical damage you take.

        Precision was abandoned. Now +Crit Chance and +Crit Damage are no longer derived from Precision, though they will most likely add both of them to Dexterity.

        Attack was split into five stats +X class damage, and they come from different sources. Barbarian gets damage from Strenght, Demon Hunter and Monk get their damage from Dexterity and Wizard and Witch Doctor get their damage from Intellect.

        Also, Intellect gives +Health from Health Globes and Strenght gives +Armor. Due to all the changes, it is unclear (to me at least) what exectly what they mean by +Armor. Will they mean old Armor which is new Physical Rez. or new Armor which is old Defense. This is obviously quite important. My guess would be they mean: Strenght gives +Physical Resistance, since strenght giving new Armor (mitigates all damage) would be OP.

        • Yeah, i saw it, it was in one of the links to blizzard… missed it the 1st time coz it was friday morning at work…
           
          Sorry, i kinda wasted your time…

  2. Why can’t Jay Wilson just call a spade a spade for once??  Something like:

    “I, Jay Wilson, have failed to do my job to date.  I am charged with designing a game from the ground up and some of the core concepts I committed to early on have turned out to be poor design choices in hindsight in my opinion.  Therefore, massive reworking needed to be done to correct my mistakes.  Also, other core game mechanics such as runes are still up in the air as a result and can’t even be discussed publicly yet.  After all, if I discussed them publicly and they are also mistakes, I’ll look just as foolish about those choices as the ones I’m apologizing for today.  All of this has obviously had a detrimental effect on release of the game.  I’m not going to give you any further insight into a release date time frame because I like to have the option of constantly revising my most core beliefs about what the game should be and do so all in the name of delivering the best game to you because that argument’s such a convenient one for me to make.  I will do my best to finally get it right this time and release to you (someday) the game you should have had months ago.”

  3. HURRY UP!!! BLAHHHHHHHRGH.

  4. After at least 5 months of checking RSS feeds and scrolling through forums and responses as we felt the release of D3 was imminent, this is finally what made it click for me. This game isn’t going to come out any faster despite my frantic pursuit. I really am going to take a chill pill and try to forget about this game for a while…. /sad sigh

    (I know this happened to many of you months ago. Kudos, in advance.)

  5. beta plz, pass the time… plzz wheres the BIG opt in wave we’ve been waiting for since we gave u all our system specs……. it’s comin, i can feel it. 8)

  6. It’s just absolutely baffling to me.   They hype this post by Jay Wilson in advance knowing full well the information that we are most interesting in receiving along with an update as to the development progress of the game is how this progress effects the release date time frame.  Then, Jay details all these changes without any mention of how they will effect the previously state “early 2012” time frame.  If they’re going to include all of these changes in the next patch, Jay’s post amounts to only slightly more than patch notes with detailed reasons for the included changes.  I think if Jay had made some sort of comment on the release status (not necessarily a release date; just an update as to whether they are still on track for “early 2012”), the entire community’s mood everywhere would be much different.  This has the feel of taking the “additional delay” bandaid off very slowly rather than ripping it off and being done with it. It’s hard to imagine that all these changes won’t delay release past most of our expectations of “early 2012”, so why foster any false hope of no further delay by not officially delaying the game? My guess is that they think that any time before July 1 could be considered early and they still think they can release before then. They’d rather be able to say they hit “early 2012” with June release (gasp) than restate the release date time frame to “June 2012”, “Q2 2012”, etc. and have it seen as another delay. That’s my best guess because unfortunately that’s all we can do is guess. I thought they might like to see us stop guessing about the release date given all their whining about how much we all obsess about the release date, but their actions don’t mesh with their talk.

  7. I call it like I see it: stage fright and second guessing. They were so bent on obliterating Diablo II with their “new, revolutionary, awesome, cool and innovative additions”, yet they are folding now and walk the beaten path.

    There is not much left to chop out before we get Diablo 3: Diablo 2’s second expansion pack.

    PS: Blizz are really particular with their polishing. They do it with an axe.

  8. It’s all stupid over-iteration in my opinion. Actually it’s more like lazy cop-outs and going overboard on “trimming the fat.” I want my Mystic back dammit… 😡

    Just watch… the runestone system changes will be something like “There are no more rune colors. They all have the same icon and you just get a random skill-specific rune effect when they drop. Also, we’ve cut out 2-3 rune effects per skill as they were too redundant with eachother. They also no longer have ranks and instead have flat bonuses that scale up depending on what difficulty and act they dropped in.” YAY FOR STREAMLINING!!!

  9. I’m not too bent about the changes themselves (I expect we’ll see the Mystic in the first X-pack and the other stuff does make sense), it’s the overall air of indecisiveness that concerns me. They have now come full-circle on a number of game mechanics that they previously defended quite emphatically as necessary to be changed.
     
    I know it’s their job to present whatever design is in place as the best one, but when they publicly and repeatedly waffle on things as major as character stats, potions, town access, salvage, etc, it really gives the impression that they don’t really know what kind of game they want to produce, regardless of the actuality. None of these design decisions are terrible of themselves, but they keep contradicting in ways that undermine people’s confidence.
     
    I’m still gonna hope it all ends up in the right place – with the best possible game at release time. But that doesn’t mean I’m not rolling my eyes right now.

    • Totally agree with everything you said here. I think most of these changes were stupid over-iteration that they shouldn’t have done in the first place, but I welcome the change to the stats, and the addition of the stats to the paper doll. As a side note If they really were out of expansion ideas.. then as long as we see the mystic show up later, I’ll be ok with it. I’m keeping my fingers crossed for the talisman and charms making a return too.

      So since I didn’t hate all the changes I voted as “The changes are ok, but hurry the FVCK up” even though I really wanted to say it was ALL unnecessary over-iteration BS. 👿

  10. I dont agree with the reasoning behind some of these changes, but I trust Jay Wilson and his team to make Diablo 3 as good as it can be, and I don’t mind waiting a little longer, but I do hope it comes out soon :(.

  11. I like the part where there’s only 4 skill slots plus 2 for the mouse, yet a full skill set of 6 skills + normal attack = 7 slots required.

    Talk about “tactical error”. Well done Blizzard.

    Why would you want to normal attack you’re thinking? I can think of one example for DH – Fundamentals passive skill.

    • Personally I’m a bit peeved that you can no longer switch your mouse skills on the fly. As in Diablo 2 style, where you can hot-key multiple skills, then tap the key to switch the active mouse skill instantly. This BS of using skills directly from the keyboard feels far to MMO-like to me than Diablo-like. I’d must rather have the old style hot-key system back from Diablo 2 than what Diablo 3 currently has. The entire point they were trying to make was the game was to be playable with the mouse only. However they failed that as soon as they made the keyboard required. Not to mention the removal of the tab skill swap to boot.

    • Just to clarify a point, no one will ever use a normal attack.  …Well, maybe the Wizard and Witch Doctor will have to resort to it if they’re oddball melee focused builds OR if they’re simply out of mojo/mana.  The Barb, Monk, and Hunter all have skills that are made to build up their respective resource and are free to use.  Unless people intentionally gimp their build and go with a full set of skills that only spend their resource instead of generate it, you’ll never see their normal attack.

      • Just to clarify:

        Fundamentals:
        Increases the damage of your Basic Attack by 100%. Your Basic Attack restores 4 Hatred.

        I can see a use for that and a need to have normal attack selectable. Also when finishing off a mob and not wanting to waste resource or over-kill all day is a thing that comes to my mind. Even stuff like just attacking and not wanting to use resource because you want to bait a player and then dump resource. You simply cannot take basic attack out of a game like this regardless of how other game mechanics can override it

        Also consider silencing affects.

        • Okay, Fundamentals is admittedly a decent example of how a standard attack could be applied.  However, wasting resources or baiting other players are kinda moot since a) three classes have free resource generators, b) Wizards will have free spells at their disposal, and c) Witch Doctors have lots of ways to regen their mojo, which regens rather well anyway.  Not wanting to over-kill can be remedied by switching out for a lower DPS weapon and won’t sacrifice a skill slot.  And if a caster build gets silenced and is desperate to throw down a normal attack, that sounds very dangerous for generally squishy characters.
           
          But I see your point.  There may be a situation or the player may make a choice where they want normal attacks to be available.  If they really want that option, they’re reduced to five skills.  I’d say it’s a very rare case where this applies, but it exists. 

          (Can classes other than the Demon Hunter equip bows?  If so, normal attacks are all they can do with them.  Since I like to play wacky builds from time to time, all these characters are reduced to five skills.  So…  I guess if you treat a normal attack as a skill choice, then it makes some sort of sense.  …Maybe.)

          • Andrew G here, just registered.

            Baiting isn’t so much as doing an extra 20% per the hit it’s a mental thing. I would also like to reiterate holding of the resource pool. Wanting to lay down damage without using resource for 1-2 hits or whatever.
            Overkill, another mental thing – not just blasting a creep with noise and graphics when simply using an arrow. I know you’re thinking wtf am I on but -simple- is so good, and so underrated.

            Wizard and WD use bows, in fact there are WD stat focused bows. Bow and Xbow do not even give item skill bonuses for DH, ONLY wizard and WD do. However DH gets item skill bonuses on single hand crossbows (obviously).
            Edit, check this out:
            http://www.d3inferno.com/items/Bow.html
            Scroll down a bit and look for the 2nd table.
            OH LOOKING AT IT TWICE! It’s been changed from skill bonus to damage bonus.

            And as for resorting to physical attack while disabled from skill use – it might be a matter of 1 HP that wins you the fight which I’ve experienced quite often in my travels.
             
            I completely get where you’re coming from how its so easy to just be able to use skills all the time but it is the first and foremost ability to any player or NPC in a game like this. It cannot be neglected or removed because of a limited skill bar – a UI error!

  12. I feel sorry for Blizzard, I really do. They’re doing a fantastic thing by allowing all this transparency in their dev process. It really gives us a unique view on how they go about making their games. And then a bunch of critics with absolutely no experience come along and shout at them because they have no patience. It’s probably their parents fault – they got given whatever they wanted as soon as they started to scream loudly enough.
    Rather than make their game exactly as designed and chucking it out to their bateless ‘fans’ to lasciviously mop it up, they’re actually doing what they can to make the experience as good as it can be. If it doesn’t work this way, they try another, and (yes) iterate until they think we’re going to get the most enjoyment possible. What a thankless task, apparently. And if they so much as make a comment on their private twitter feeds, they’re told by their ‘fans’ to shut the hell up! Hah. Well Blizzard certainly seem to have a tough skin so this probably won’t be the last time we see this kind of transparency in game development, but the behaviour of some of these ‘fans’ is nothing short of selfish and shameful.

    EDIT: Oh, and incidentally I quite like these changes 🙂

    • ” allowing all this transparency in their dev process” ?

      the beta’s been going on for 4 months , it’d be pretty difficult to have the dev process be anything but transparent considering these things are going to be in the next beta patch

      • True. But that’s just the last four months. Blizzard have been exceptionally open about it all throughout most of the development. Not about everything, sure, but it’s been a massive insight and, if nothing else, really interesting.

    • Hehe, these kids have no experience but you think a public beta can be ran for this long so close to a release. That’s a funny statement, and I like you because you made it quite clear you have no clue what you’re talking about. 😀

      I do like the changes too, but they’re too late in the development process.

      • Ah, no, of course I don’t. I expect that you do, however? Probably got all sorts of insightful comments about game development gleaned from years of hard work reading gaming blogs. Not that I mentioned the beta at all in my overall rant, actually (except for giving the changes the thumbs-up – not that they’ve necessarily got anything to do with the beta themselves). Well done for your rebuttal *slow applause*
         
        Frankly, I’m happy to leave game development to professionals with fantastic experience at producing critically-acclaimed, award-winning games, and trust that they actually know what they’re doing.

  13. I can’t vote.  Nothing fits.
     
    Like Kunzaito, I find it a little baffling that the NC and CoJ are now gone since they implemented them so early in development.  It makes me wonder if they got removed once it became “necessary” to use the Altar in town to change your skills (and runes, too?).  If you’re constantly in town to revamp skills / switch out runes, then there’s no need for them.
     
    Town Portal?  Fine.  No ID scrolls?  Weird since we’re in town all the time anyway.
     
    Whites can’t be salvaged?  Okay…  I kinda like it.  Seems like everyone in the beta thinks that the best available items are all crafted, so if you can’t get consumables from every ol’ item that drops then it makes crafting a little more difficult.  Good.  Making people work for their gear is the Diablo way.
     
    No Mystic, no problem.  …Except that enchantments could have been very, very awesome.  Gems alone are not interesting.  There’s less than there were in D2, and even those were mostly terrible after a certain point.  Enchantments seemed like a great way to get a specific mod you really want, and the fact that there was a range of possible values makes it a great gold sink.  We need gold sinks.  I really hope this system either remains or will show up in a patch/expansion.
     
    +skill gear.  Oh no.  Not again.  Certain items will be highly sought after, and character customization through gear will suffer.  Enigma was awesome, but it was a game breaker so everyone wanted it.  Harlequin Shako was awesome, but every caster had one.  It’s not a terrible system, but it’s a lop-sided one.
     
    All in all, I’ve got mixed reactions to the news.  And even if all these changes have been implemented already, we’re still in the dark about runes (for the last nine months) and whatever this new skill change will be.  Unknown systems equals no release date any time soon.
     
    That said, I can’t be angry.  Disappointed, yes, but not angry.  Justified anger would mean that I’m entitled to something, which I’m not.  Yeah, I’ve preordered, but that just means I’ll receive the game when it’s released.  It doesn’t give me the right to complain and whine about their development process and how badly I want to play the game.  I may have opinions about how things are being handled, but it’s plain moronic to be angry about a[nother] delay.

    • Yeah I agree about +skill on item, leave skills for skill systems only.

      In fact, the mods have been in the item database for quite a while because it’s been on here (DH for example):
      http://www.d3inferno.com/mods/Skill_%28DemonHunter%29.html

      For weeks, I’ve been theorising how it’s going to be used but I can’t figure it out… obviously in levels of 8 in someway. Likewise for all other 4 classes as you can see for yourself.

      The only thing I like about any of the changes is the no more ID scrolls, and maybe mystic. I only didn’t like mystic because it made me thinking of enchanting and just made me think of WoW so badly. They needed to call it imbueing or something like that and make it look difference in descriptions to be less WoW-like

      Another thing semi-related to a change (stats showing next to equipped items now) – what the fuck is with “DPS”? This game is entirely built on damage per hit and item percentage multipliers, it has fuck all to do with DPS which is calculated from basic attack WHICH IS REDUNDANT WITH THE CURRENT UI AFTER L24… (see my previous post).

  14. The game has been in development for 10 years in which of the last 5 years by 100% staff.

    How is there still small matters as STAT-NAMES to be discussed? That should like be printed down the first meeting of the whole producing-cycle.
    Something BIG has let this game delay for at least the last 6 months. And all those changes are just there to make us believe they’re in a “polishing phase”.

    Bulllshit.

    4. Furious since 2010.

  15. Let’s see if I am interpreting Jay’s post right…
    Diablo 3 consists of:
    1. Story
    2. Graphic
    3. Stat & Itemization
    4. Rune & Skill
    5. Crafting
    6. UI & Misc.
    Besides 1 & 2, this late into the development everything else is still up in the air?
    WTF?

  16. I dont care anymore.. this is the new duke nukem forever.

  17. Beta Patch 10 is the way the game should have been designed from Day 1.  The over iteration trying to improve on mechanics that were not broken was nothing more than Jay Wilson trying to make a name for himself.  Hopefully Jay has now learned from his mistakes and will finally get D3 out the door and into our hands. I’m tired of all the delays, just as everyone else.

  18. 5# These changes could’ve also been patches with the game already released.

    • not possible. you can’t remove an npc post-release only to make them come back later in expansion. And you can’t change stat functions after items with the original stats have dropped.

  19. I find it astonishing that the biggest game developer, with arguably the largest resources and therefore talent to cherry pick, can’t FINISH a game that was to all purposes built by Blizzcon 2008.

    I would love to hear a psychiatrists view on what is going on inside these guys minds.

    Perfection is unattainable. Surely there must be someone in the dev’ team who can see that the game has to be released, and THEN tweaked.

  20. By reading all comments, it seems that everyone agrees that the common feeling isn’t the most voted.
    They really are over-iterating.. and iterating on core game systems too late in the development stage. Don’t tell me that an average of a couple of hundreds concurrent players that play the beta are responsible for this shift of ideas..
    1.What about that “fast-paced always in battle” features to force you to stay in battle?
    After all this changing, you see that most systems that D3 had were based on this filosophy. Scraping, Selling, Health Globes, Changing skills on the fly = always in combat.
    Scrap at smith, sell in town, change skills in town.. remove health globes and add more pots with a dedicated button and you have Diablo2 Expansion Pack 2.
    If the ‘best that Diablo3 can be’ is Diablo2, so be it. But, please, make up your minds already.

    • If Blizz were studying the beta players they could have arrived at many of these decisions. Beta payers don’t talk, don’t wear different gear, don’t pick up things anyway for unknown reasons (since it’s far more profitable to destroy things as a group and pick up everything) and only go to town to afk and turn in quests. These changes help mitigate many of these problems.

      Internal testers no doubt behaved differently because they are internal. It’s entirely possible that the beta is responsible for the shift.

  21. Finally they have woken up! they made diablo 3 become just another diablo clone but finally puttin the stats back the way they SHOULD be makes it feel like a diablo sequel again. weird but true. Now they need to stop fuckin about and actually ship the game. hype train was vibrant in november time, now im not even excited by diablo 3, what a shame. 🙁

  22. I vote for 5) ; The conclusions that led to these changes should have been made years ago, possibly even before development started. You’ve wasted vast oceans of precious development time that could’ve gone into improving the game. I’m somewhat relieved, but still mad and disappointed.

  23. Or it’s all a huge conspiracy and we are all a living model of Diablo 3 in which they post pone it over and over again and watch us blow up and they shoot for the highest nerd rage possible. Jay Wilson obviously has top score, each new act of Diablo 3 is attained by a release of wallpaper and they won’t fight Diablo till they make some nerds head explode. (I’m using metaphores and sarcasim)
    Anyways nothing wrong with the changes, don’t really care, I love blizzard and it’s their game anyways, and their money and their investment, and their final call. I would love if I could have been playing by now, but I could say the same for 10 years ago. No qualms personally, just mild impatience.

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