Vote: Everyone Hates the Realm of Trials?

news-realm-of-trials-hatesI hear a lot of complaints from players who don’t want to prove their worth in the Realm of Trials before going into Greater Rifts, and since a Blue replied to one such complaint today, let’s get into it.

Trials – Why the GR system is failing

Do devs ever wonder why players do 1 GR for every 20-50 normal rifts? Why do players have hundreds and thousands of GR (ahem, I mean trial) keys sitting in stash but are always out of normal keys?

The answer is very simple: it’s because trials are a bland, boring and unrewarding waste of time. And no, upping the gold/xp trial rewards to scale trial difficulty won’t solve that.

I want to use my 500 keys and farm GR 30s, I really do. But in the time it takes me to get a GR35 key from a trial, I can already be halfway through a T6 rifts. It is not worth it to farm GRs, because trials exist to waste my time.
Nevalistis: We’re not happy with the Realm of Trials, and we’ve been tinkering around with various improvements. What I appreciate most about this thread is the friendly discourse, thorough discussion about why you feel the way you do about Trials, and the ideas being tossed around.

Great to see; I’m always taking notes!

The OP’s post has a lot of upvotes on, and most of the replies sing a similar song. Which is why I’m curious to see how this vote goes, since I wonder if Trials are one of those things that no one likes enough to defend, while the minority who hates them makes all the noise. I’d fit myself into the first class; I don’t especially enjoy Trials, but I don’t really dislike them either, and I think they have a valid utility in the game.

I see a number of main complaints about trials. 1) No rewards/items. 2) Unrepresentative of the actual game so players have to regear and respec just to earn higher level keys. 3) Unfair to some classes/builds and too easy for others. 4) Boring/waste of time.

The last point is probably the most voiced, but is the hardest to defend with anything empirical, since it’s just subjective opinion. I’m not sure *why* people find Trials so boring, though. They’re full of huge hordes of monsters who scale up quickly, making it an interesting way to test your character’s strength. And the respecing can be kind of fun and strategic?

I recently did a bunch of Trials with my PTR Monk. In my normal kit I was topping out around 34, mostly since I kept dying and losing too much time. So I changed my gear around, adding in the Gungdo Gear contagious Exploding Palm bracers, switched out my Bane of the Powerful for a Mirinae, respeced to add Cyclone Strike for a pull and Serenity for the temporary invulnerability, and changed my helm gem to Amethyst, etc. And in that new build I was able to yank everything in, trigger enormous Exploding Palm domino chain blasts, and earn up to GR43 keys.

So that’s my counter argument, or at least anecdote. What do the rest of you think? Let’s take the temperature of the community. Vote: Everyone Hates the Realm of Trials?

How do you feel about the Realm of Trials?

View Results

Loading ... Loading ...

Click through for more pro/anti Grift arguments, and to explain exactly why you like/dislike them in comments.

I don’t hate them, but I have a couple of Trial complaints:

1) I hate the opening wait time to start. It’s only 8 seconds and it’s necessary in party games, and some classes use that time to set up turrets… but it should be skippable for classes, like my Monk, who just want to start punching things.

2) Trials are okay, but I find Grifts boring and unrewarding, so I lack motivation to do Trials. I’m surprised there aren’t more complaints about Grifts, since I find them a vastly bigger time sink than the 40-60 seconds spent earning the key in the Realm of Trials. Other than LGem upgrades, what’s the value or reward of a Grift? What’s the point in doing them once you’ve got your LGems to high enough levels that further upgrades are only incremental improvements? (Admittedly, the greatly boosted EXP becomes very obvious once you’re up into GR40+ range.)

The only fun I find in Grifts is the challenge of higher level enemies. I didn’t appreciate it so much with my HC chars on Live, but playing softcore on the PTR, I can’t believe how ridiculously easy T6 is. When you’ve got a character who can clear GR40, T6 feels like running through Normal difficult with God Mode enabled, and it’s absurd for the highest difficulty level in the game. I’d play a lot more if there were higher Torment levels, up to T12 or T15 (or just T10 with a bigger bump up in difficulty on each Torment level past T6).

I’d love to be able to play higher level, harder content that wasn’t all about racing a 15m clock in a semi-random dungeon. Where’s the GR50 or GR60 equivalent for players who want to struggle through a grindy, defensive-based challenge? Grifts are fine for what they are, but it’s weird that the only way to get any kind of challenge for a well-geared character is to race through dungeons where no items or gold drops.


You're not logged in. Register or login to post a comment.
  1. Not sure why they even have them. You should just start at level 1 GRIFT and get the boosted key depending on clear time. They already have algorithms in place calculating this when you completely crush a lower GRIFT and get a large bump in the next key. Tweak the math to aid in correctly calculating the much larger jumps and call it good. I honestly don’t think you can salvage the way trials are setup right now. One of the many problems when playing D3 with a timer. Really looking forward to forgetting about this when I transition from PC to console.

    • So you're arguing that you'd rather rush through multiple very easy rifts instead of just spending a couple of minutes in the Realm of Trials, and then going right to GR35? Assuming your comments are somewhat representative, I guess people really do hate trials… if they're willing to spend an afternoon working up through easy GRs instead of doing it in 2 minutes in a Trial.

      • Flux the problem with trials come from the fact that greater rifts are a farmable element in the game and trials are not as the give no reward as they are there only to make you lose more time until you do what you wanted in the first place and that is to do a greater rift.Multiply this by 10 or 20 and think about a party farming 20 greater rifts. This will imply that they spend a lot of time in trials.

        I am the one that started the "Vote for Trials Removal" on bnet and I have to tell you I DID NOT expect such a clear answer. Every one hates TRIALS.

        We do not want to be "ON TRIAL" every time we do a greater rift. If you like the system is ok but its glued to greater rifts that is the problem . Blizzard has to do something to let us farm Greater Rifts because I tell you and you can ask around players that want to farm greater rifts they don't because of those annoying trials. Its like 30% of the time you "invest" in a greater rift its lost on a damn trial.

        Simple suggestion would be to let us choose how many keys we want to do with each trial. If you like trials as a concept you can do as many as you want but they need to let us enjoy Greater Rifts. That is the problem "Cut the ombilical from trials to greater rifts"

    • How about doing a trial once. Then you can select grift difficulty you scored for, or all the lower dificulties if you select so. So for example you do trial and get lvl 20, so you can do all grifts from lvl 1 to 20. If you want to do higher grift, you either have to upgrade your keys through doing lvl 20 grift, or retake trials. Imagine you upped you grift by two levels so from now on you can do lvl 1-22 grifts.

  2. the only way to fix greater rifts is to remove trials totally and have a difficulty slider when u open a greater rift, the max difficulty being how high you completed with that character.

    • The Realm of Trials is a good idea on its own, mixed in with a few bosses every 5th wave I think it would make an enjoyable game mode to play either solo or with team mates.

      I agree with others in these comments about the fact that as it stands it is just a barrier to greater rift which is really what people want to do if they are currently doing a Trial.

      Remove Trials from Greater Rifts and just have a max level slider which is determined by a groups lowest member (thus stopping power leveling of Legendary Gems).

  3. I only dislike but I have no problem with the, “kill it with fire,” approach. Strong convictions.

  4. let us chocse whatever level we want to try or something or if u have done max 30 then u should do atleast min 30 for u to try until u pass it.

  5. In my opinion GR should be reworked to permanently unlock portals every 5 levels, kind of like you would in Diablo 1. Once you reach level 23, you can start at level 1, or resume at 5, 10, 15 or 20. And remove level(s) skips when you're way ahead of the timer.

    • You mean shifting up in selectable levels? I mean keeping GR-lvl 1 as an option would be kinda mandatory for some players. But upping the other four available selections to level 15, 20, 25 and 30, once your able to complete GR15 in 1/3 the available time (or GR20 in half the time) sounds like a good way to drop RoTs completely.

      • ?

        The suggestion is you unlock GRifts in increments of 5. So if you completed GRift 45, you'd have the option of creating GRifts at level 1, 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40 or 45. Not sure where you got the idea that it would only be 3 selectable levels…

        • Wasn't sure, if I'd understood you. That's why I asked 😉

          In my opinion this would result in too much options available at the same time, while most of the options would become more and more obsolete, the higher GR a character can manage. Having the option of GR1 and GRs of a level the character can run easily, with minor difficulties, with medium difficulties, right at his limits and one GR of a level that's slightly above a characters abilities seems best. I dunno how far Blizz will take the powercreep with the next expansion, so I've got to assume that having every fifth level available in selection may result in cluttering any selection window or would require scrolling to select (, which could become a slight hassle in itself.)

          • Sorry… meant understood ChimpMagnet.

          • The game already has terrible interfaces full of scrolling – blacksmith crafting and especially gem combining. There's no reason it couldn't shrink everything except the highest 3 GRifts you've unlocked and Grift #1, and hide the others under a "…" option that when clicked on will expand to show the full list.

  6. we already have to do rifts in order to do GRs. Why the extra step? I understand its intended purpose but it fails miserably at it.

    Just let us select whatever level we want up to our highest completed level.

  7. I put this in that thread, but I honestly don’t know why they aren’t two separate systems. A game mode with waves of enemies that increase in difficulty with some Elites and bosses scattered in, and maybe an objective to defend a gate to a City or something.

    The gameplay of the Trials isn’t really the problem (though it needs to be tweaked to add some diversity), but it’s purpose is rather unneeded. GRs are gated by regular rifts, and you should just be able to use a “GR token” to go to whatever level you want to start at, up to the highest one you’ve completed (or like highest minus 2 maybe). Bam, more things to do, and you remove the hassle that trials bring.

  8. "4) Boring/waste of time. The last point is probably the most voiced, but is the hardest to defend with anything empirical, since it’s just subjective opinion."

    It's irrelevant that it's 'subjective' – that's the nature of opinions. What is relevant though is that approximately 75% (according to the votes so far) of the playerbase thinks some particular aspect of the game is boring/pointless. That's reason enough to consider doing something about it.

    And when you combine that with the fact that there's little reason (if any) to keep Trials, then that just makes the decision to remove them all the easier.

    "I’m not sure *why* people find Trials so boring, though. They’re full of huge hordes of monsters who scale up quickly, making it an interesting way to test your character’s strength."

    Yes, it's an interesting peak into player psychology. I often wondered myself why I find Trials so boring – I mean, I'm killing monsters, right? Just like in a GRift? But the bottom line is that they are clearly different.

    When I do a Trial i'm doing it BECAUSE I WANT TO DO A GRIFT, not because I want to do a Trial. And that's the point. It's a barrier to the actual thing you want to do. Which is bad game design. Just ask yourself whether you'd find it tedious to do a rewardless trial every time you wanted to do a regular rift, and I think you'll see why people dislike them.

    The irony is that if 'Trials' were actually their own separate Realm, with a leaderboard and better rewards etc, then people would probably not only not mind them, but actually play them to achieve higher levels etc.

    But Trials are not this; they're a tedious, rewardless time-sink you have to perform before you can actually Play Your Way.

    • Yes, opinions are inherently subjective, but if someone wants their opinion to have some weight in an argument, they'll need to put reasons behind it. For instance, when people argue that Trials are unfair since some classes have builds that work much better, or that trials aren't reflective of the real game and require different specs and gear, those are valid points.

      When people just say, "I don't wanna." that's not so compelling. Since other people do wanna.

      The issue with Grifts, from a designer PoV, is that doing higher Grifts is a big reward since it allows higher LGem upgrades. And since you get to upgrade your gem when you finish the GR, even if it's not within the 15m time limit, there needs to be a mechanism that prevents players from simply creating any level of GR they want. At least in Softcore, where players can Zerg their way to 100%, sooner or later.

      Initially the system started with GR1 and you had to work your way up, but that was tedious and repetitive, so Bliz created Trials to let players earn higher level GRKs to start out higher up. The best suggestion I've heard is to let players earn multiple GRKs per trial. Like if you did a trial and you had 10 Trial keys, you could cash in all 10 at once for whatever level you earned from the Waves.

      That seems a good way to save time, without allowing players to cheat their way into GRs they don't deserve. Though I'm sure it wouldn't stop the complaints, since a lot of people seem to object to Trials in any form. For reasons that remain opaque to me, based on comments so far in this thread.

      • I’m not sure it matters that much if people have a reason or not. When ~75% of your players just say “it’s boring”, then, well, it’s boring. It doesn’t really matter why. It may help in fixing it to know why, but apart from that all they need to be aware of is the players' feelings.

        Yes, I agree that the suggestion to be able to convert multiple GRKs to whatever level you complete in a single Trial would be vastly superior to the current system, and possibly ‘good enough’ that I could put up with the limited tedium of it. But I’d still prefer a system that didn’t require ANY tedium (crazy, I know).

        However, I don’t really buy the excuse about how Trials are necessary to stop people getting rewards they don’t ‘deserve’. D3 has always involved ‘carrying’ lower level players through higher-level content, and I don’t see this as all that much different. And if a player can’t do that GR level solo, then it doesn’t really matter if they get access to it or not – they still won’t be able to farm it solo.

        But you're probably right that that is one of the reasons for them keeping trials (the undeserved rewards thing), but imo the bigger reason for them keeping trials (and why they almost certainly won’t remove them) is for exactly the same reason they’ve added layer upon layer of RNG and layers of tedium in every other aspect of the game: artificial longevity. If you’re striving to complete GR level X (and upgrade that gem), then you’ll need to farm twice (or whatever) as many keys as you would otherwise have to if you had straight access to that level, since you’ll inevitably be screwed by RNG on your climb up to that GRift level.

  9. A lot of good ideas for changes here. Persoanlly, I loathe them. I hope for a key to drop but let out a sigh when one does. Im embarrassed to say the highest GR I've got to is 24, but I've got several lvl 25 gems. Maybe I could swap my gear for the trials but it's cheating to me if it's not my primary gear. So if I find an upgrade I'll use that or use my paragon points until I can reach a higher GR.

  10. They should give Orek or another NPC the ability to convert a Trials key into a Greater Rift key of any level you choose, if you have completed the level.

  11. Brilliant idea: You instantly trade in a key for any level you have unlocked. Beating a level unlocks that level +1 and anything lower. Boom, done.

    "But people will just spam RNG manip keys until they get lucky!"

    Then quit regarding a purely luck based game as legitimately competitive or better yet fix it so it actually is.

  12. It's not something I thought much about since I mostly play solo, but I imagine Blizzard's objection to player requests to just pick whatever level of GR they want has to do with multiplayer an exploits. So you party with 3 really strong chars and now you can just start in GR45 any time you want, even if your char is only worthy of GR35 playing solo?

    That seems like it would only hurt the player by starting a GR that's way over their head… but I guess the exploit would be that you get to upgrade your LGem even if you don't finish the GR in time, so players could get their LGems to much higher level than they "deserve" by death grinding through really high GRs. When in the current system they'd never be able to get GR keys of such a high level in the first place. And sure, you could get friends to help you earn the keys, but that's harder to manage than just doing it once and then being able to create keys of that level whenever you wanted.

    • That's a valid concern, but it's easily addressed by making a group able to open a grift equal to the lowest accessible among the party members.

      Personally I think the simplest solution is to allow us to cash in our trial keys for whatever level we want up to the highest trial level cleared. Doesn't remove the issues with trials completely, but does simplify them and minimize the time investment required.

    • You must have unlocked that level. Which means the group carries you through a GR 44 and then you unlock 45 down.

      Which actually takes more effort than hiding in a corner while a DH feeds you 45 keys, which is what happens now.

      As for "death grinding" that's always been the name of the SC game, you're late. Especially with the death penalty now effectively nonexistent.

  13. Why do you need the trial process in order to select difficulty? Why don’t have have to do trials, or some other 20-60 second process to choose between T1 or T5?

    Trials only serve for difficulty selection. It should not be confused with the process of Bounties or regular rifts.

    • Because leveling gem is not farming. Increasing difficulty does not improve farming if the increased drop rate is less than the decrease of killing speed so it auto stabilize. For GR level, doing a GR26 in 30 mm is worth it compared to 20mn GR25 since it doubles the upgrade chance. If they change the upgrade chance rule, it will change the way it works. If increasing a GR level multiplies the completion by 1.2 then the upgrade chance must be divided by no more than 1.2

  14. They could measure the average dps while in combat during a regular rift and give the GR key accordingly.

  15. I agree with Flux in the original story–I don’t hate the Trials, but I don’t like them, either.

    What I very much dislike is that the Waves do not equal the GR Level in the end. Why can’t they streamline this so it’s easier to predict what level is being earned? This is important when leveling up gems and not wanting to go too high in GR Level.

  16. Make Kadala sell Grift keystones, problem solved. Pricing could be something like 2 blood shards per level, so level 30 woudl cost 60 shards etc.

  17. Make the Realm of Trials reward not one but three to ten keys of the determined difficulty, possibly based on how 'well' you did with your last wave before time ran out.

    Or … what would be an even more disconnect-friendly approach, make entering a Greater Rift not consume the keystone. It could still be turned in when a gem/key upgrade is chosen at the end of the rift. This way you wouldn't at least have to redo the realm of trials when you intend to stay at a certain rift difficulty without making progress.

  18. There are no rewards. People already feel that grifts aren't rewarding enough for the time spent, and it takes a trial as well beforehand. Buff grifts and/or add some sort of reward for trials.

  19. Trials should be there to evaluate the power of your character or your team.
    In that context, the map must stay the same, the mobs must stay the same in order to have the same evaluation each time, so I agree with the principle.

    But the fact is that it is a break in the rhythm of the game.

    The other problem is that a trial is not fun since it’s a test and not very rewarding since you can not drop any item, which is the base of a diablo game, even if you receive a bit amount of gold and xp.

    So I think the trials should give you more than one key to lower the frequency you must do them.
    Why not giving 5 GRift keys each trial ? It sounds a bit more fair, what do you think guys ?

  20. If you are playing solo, GR 15-20 is actually more rewarding than T6, depending on clear speed. I think I get more shards and legendaries playing GR1-10-15-20-(…)-30, playing solo (as in I get M6 twice if do this the entire day).

    T6 is more rewarding, especially if a full party closes the rift right after the guardian.

    Solo T6, imo, is completely garbage drop wise (on GRs you have granted legendary and some shards beating easier content faster). I did it a lot for shards, because I wanted double unity, sojs, etc. Missing only physical soj right now…

    I don't really care for "doing my best" on GRs, I just level gems to 25 or so (30 sometimes). I could use a few more levels on Gogok, which is already 30+, but I just got upset after not making my personal best on 32 – on a square map, with low density and act 5 mobs, because I had to backtrack the whole empty map, testing a calamity/balefire caster build. Didn't make it for a couple seconds.

    I would like a system to convert my trial keys into lvl X GR keys, starting from 1, up to personal best, with a slider or something. System would look like the gem upgrade system – a list of GR level keys and you could choose the number of GR keys you would like to convert, spending a key of trials for each one.

  21. Trials have no meaningful rewards except the ability to do another style of content for something you actually want (gem upgrades, I guess). It's just another layer of time wasted to foster some kind of fake competition where the only true metric is the amount of time you can spend grinding the RNG for your class's One True Gearset to Rule Them All.

    I'd rather fail out of a trial on wave 1 and blow through grift 1 and up, because at least grift 1 has a slim chance of giving me something that I could use. Trials are guaranteed to never give me anything loot-wise, in a game focused entirely on loot. That's the problem.

  22. I don't like trial runs that much even if the concept behind it makes sens. I am sure there could be other ways to grand access to GRifts. I understand that they are used to gauge how powerful is your character but honestly I am not even sure it really does that properly. For example, one of my monk that score like 21 on the trials but obviously can do 26 – 27 easily. On the other hand, my DH can get keys for level 32-33 but cannot run Grifts higher then 28-29. So I don't know… Also, I don't like spending the time running the trial.

  23. i dont understand why you cannot craft the keys to make it easier (crafting costs apply) you do trials to get to X wave (G-rift level and anything under too) then u can craft X G-rift keys that would alleviate the tedious nature of trials but also levels the playing feild, if u want to start at a higher wave u gotta go back in to trials

  24. What's the difference in doing trials or Grifts level 1? Blizz did Trials to make us not play Grifts 1 and I'm ok with that.

Comments are closed.