Vote: Diablo 3 Ancient Items

news-ancient-items1The concept for Ancient Items: upgraded Diablo 3 Legendary Items, was revealed at Blizzcon 2014 to what felt like a fairly mixed reception. The idea is simple; about 1.5% on T1 and up to 10% on DiabloWikiT6 of legendary items that drop (or gamble, or craft) will be Ancient Items, with considerably higher rolls to most of the primary and secondary affixes.

The stats are boosted by ~1-30%, making any Ancient Item at least a minor and potentially a very major upgrade over the non-Ancient version of that same item. Not all affixes get a boost; currently Critical hit Damage & Chance, Attack Speed, +skill damage, and +elemental damage are not boosted by being Ancient-ized (subject to change during the PTR, of course). Almost every other affix is, though including DiabloWikimainstat, vitality, DiabloWikiRes All, and perhaps most impactful of all… weapon damage.

You will see *much* bigger DPS numbers on weapons that roll as Ancient, to the point that a player might ditch their current weapon with a useful Legendary Affix for the Ancient version of a different weapon. Hey, it’s an incentive to try a different build! A new, Ancient thing. You like new things, right?

The stated purpose of Ancient Items is to provide another source of item upgrades, even for players who are very well kitted out. The Diablo 3 devs feel the game is most fun for players when they are regularly (or at least irregularly) finding impactful upgrades to their gear, and the AIs are a way to implement that without adding a whole new tier of higher quality items that would obsolete everything your character is now wearing.

grumpy cat ancient itemsNot everyone likes the idea, of course. The main objection I’ve seen is that the Ancient quality will become the new baseline, making all current items feel like junk. Which is probably true, at least for players at the highest end, but it’s odd to focus on the “won’t have and will feel left out” instead of the “will find and will feel great to upgrade.” Imagine, people on the internet focusing on the negative!

The other complaint is that the odds of finding an Ancient version of the the really uncommon items, especially some of the weapons that take so long to hunt up in any form, will be too long. If you’ve got a 1/10000 chance of finding a Furnace now, and you’ve only got a 10% chance of that Furnace being Ancient… you’ll be looking for a long time! Of course the whole point of Diablo 3 is to spend a long time looking for perfect item upgrades, but not everyone was temperamentally cut out to hunt The Grail in D2, or the Ancient Grail now that we’ve got it in D3…

Anyway, here’s the vote, and let’s measure some opinions on Ancient Items. Vote: Diablo 3 Ancient Items… Newer and Better?

How do you feel about Diablo 3 Ancient Items?

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Click through to see screenshots of the 9 Ancient Item examples so far revealed, Blue quotes on AI, and hit the comments for your specific complaints/praises of the Ancient Items question.

Travis Day’s comments on Ancient Items from our interview with him on Friday afternoon at Blizzcon 2014. (This was before the Satuday panel explained more AI details.)

IncGamers: So do Ancient Items look just the same? Is the clang or drop beam different?
Travis: That’s the idea.

IncGamers: So there’s going to be new excitement when IDing, eh?
Travis: Sure, it’s meant to preserve a little bit of that anticipation. And Ancient Items are really meant to serve the players who want to play the game a considerable amount. We want our game to be as accessible to all of our players as possible. And our drop rates reflect that.

I started my Seasonal Monk and within a week I had surpassed my Crusader from ship of RoS, since drop rates are insanely high now, Kadala is really rewarding. And it’s great that I could do that with a brand new character, but man I really wish there was still something I could want… cause I’ve got everything already. And Ancient Items are really meant for people like me or streamers or players like you who play a lot and want something new to discover.

A couple of recent Blue posts on Ancient Items as well:

When Ancient legendaries were announced at Blizzcon, the first thing that came to my mind along with many others was the fact that another layer of RNG would be added to the many layers that already exist. In terms of end-game progression this would mean that players will have to re-farm already hard-to-get legendaries, have them roll the right stats, and on top of that hope that it rolls as an ancient legendary. This will only drive many of the remaining player base away.

After discussing this matter with many others, I feel that the best way to implement this system would be to add a gift similar to Ramaladni’s that will transform the legendary item you use it on into an ancient legendary with increased stats. Of course this item will have to be extremely rare to make the system fair. By implementing the system in this form it will avoid the issue of forcing players to re-farm all of their gear in order to progress through higher level greater rifts and improve their leaderboard rank. Blizzard… for the sake of maintaining the current player base and longevity of this franchise, please reconsider how this ancient legendary system will work its way into the current state of the game.
Tyvalir: Thanks for taking the time to post, Verdrix! We sincerely appreciate all the thoughtful threads the community is putting forward on Ancient Items. We’re reading through each and every one we come across, and we’ll continue to pass your ideas on to our dev team. Similarly, once the PTR for patch 2.1.2 arrives, we’ll be sure your hands-on feedback is relayed just as thoroughly.

For clarity, Ancient items are Legendary or Set items which have up to 30% higher stats than their non-Ancient counterparts (as well as being much rarer). They can drop from monsters starting in Torment difficulty, with an increasing chance to drop as you move up in difficulty level. They also have a chance to be obtained by crafting or from Kadala. As with all other changes and features included in patch 2.1.2, this particular design for Ancient items is subject to change based on testing and player feedback during the PTR. We hope to see some of you who are posting so passionately now putting these items through their paces once the public test realm is live.

Crafted Sets/Legendaries + Ancient legendaries

How will this work? It takes a lot of mats to craft Legs/sets. Is one supposed to keep crafting the same items over and over and hope one turns out to be a ancient item? does anyone know?
Tyvalir: Great question!

While we can’t say for sure how rare they’ll be just yet (since they haven’t been tested on the PTR), I can confirm that crafted Legendary and Set items will have a chance to roll as Ancient items, regardless of the difficulty in which you’re crafting.


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  1. They're a shiny "new" toy to farm for, that alone is something positive. That said, something that's actually new might be nice. I would have been happier with some new system instead of ancient legendaries, like a new charm or rune system of some kind.

    • Agreed. We need more things to look for to make farming more interesting and allow for more tweaking of stats through items.

      This game needs a fully fleshed out smaller item system and it needed it one year ago at least.

    • If/when they add a whole new system like that, it will be in an expansion, and not just a "tide us over" patch.

  2. People should keep in mind that ancient items are MEANT for those players who are already geared out.

    If you are casual, gratz to you if you ever get one but don’t complain about this being unobtainable due to reasons such as RNG on top of RNG *cough BNET cough*. Players who only play for 1-2 hours a night need not apply.

    • "Oh, Inferno and Legendaries are only for the most hardcore people, who want to constantly push themselves."

      Sound familiar? We all know how that worked out.

      Ancient items are an extremely lazy effort to keep people playing for longer. Not just well geared people, everyone. Diablo is about items and until you don't have the best you'll keep slaughtering demons. Also, it goes directly against their current, supposed design goal of making GR Leaderboards less about randomness. Finding an Ancient weapon will be a ridiculous boost to our performance.

      I firmly believe that if they want to go ahead with this idea then increasing the base damage on weapons is a really really bad idea, but I'd prefer if they would scrap Ancient items altogether and concentrate on adding affixes to old Legendaries. That's a much better way to keep people playing, as it would open up new options, unlike Ancient items.

      • I totally agree and was so disappointed with Blizzcon…It seemed everything was completely out of touch with 'the real world'.

        Ancient items will have nasty consequences from vaulting one person that gets a lucky drop (like an ancient furnace) higher in g-rifts, or getting an item early on and then never being able to use anything else because of the huge loss in power.

        They took the AH away to fix the reward loop, now they want to break it again?

  3. None of the \content\ in the game is balanced assuming you have them so I’m cool with the concept. Gives perfectionists like myself something to keep looking for without damning the casuals to obsolescence.

  4. My main gripe is that there are so many current legendaries in the game right now that need improving first, a full pass should have been made on them AND THEN bring in the ancient versions.

    • I agree, but to be fair here, all Ancient Legendary items are are stat buffed Legendary items. They'll be nice as an additional item to farm and it likely took almost zero effort to actually implement. It gives people more stuff to hunt for, if nothing else, and since they were likely very easy to set up I doubt it really took any real development time from more important things. One would hope, anyway.

  5. The only thing I'm concerned about is that AIs further kill any potential competitive scene (adding more RNG layers always does). But I guess it's becoming more and more apparent that Blizz doesn't really care about that.

  6. Horrible idea, more RNG on top of RNG? Why anyone plays D3 anymore is beyond me, the developers obviously have no clue what they are doing.

    They are so lazy they cannot implement a runeword system or make rares not completely worthless but instead throw a 0-30% buff on random drops? They should be fired, and the industry should never hire them again.

  7. Voted mildly negative. Hmmm….don’t mind the idea but it seems like it’s a bandaid. Power creep ftw.

  8. ” The idea is simple; about 1.5% on T1 and up to 10% on DiabloWikiT6 of legendary items that drop (or gamble, or craft) will be Ancient Items, with considerably higher rolls to most of the primary and secondary affixes. ”

    I hope it doesn’t mean a player can play and salvage at normal difficulty and then start a t6 game to gamble or craft with a 10% chance of ancients … Like it was for the bounties of normal being open in t6 for t6 results.

    • I don't think this statement is correct. Gambling odds and crafting odds are not increased as you go up the torment levels. Only item drops are.

      • Which is why it's not clear how the supposed increase in drop rate will factor into gambling and crafting. I guess those will always be around 1.5%, same as T1 drops? Bliz hasn't specified yet.

  9. My concern is simply one of statistics…

    It can take a LOT of farming or crafting to get a weapon with the right stats, as it is. The venerable perfect 10-7 weapon (10% Dmg, 7% Atk speed, dex, and therefore re-rollable weapon dmg) can literally take forever to get, and now we're talking about a 10% chance of that weapon being ancient… That means somewhere around one in 100,000 per legendary weapon.

    I fear this could actually have the opposite effect of locking players into ancient weapons instead of branching out simply because nothing that drops will ever be as good unless it is also ancient… We'll see.

  10. as Extremely to find Ancient Items and roll properties we need.
    Ancient Items should reroll 2 properties.

  11. Such an extremely cheap and easy way to try to find some solution for item hunters. So lazy.

  12. "The main objection I’ve seen is that the Ancient quality will become the new baseline, making all current items feel like junk."

    That's a typical issue with Blizzard's game design. As soon as the 'new' 130%-items are introduced, high-end content difficulty (or generic interpolation thereof, e.g. rifts) is (automatically) raised to that level as well. You won't find an obvious entry in the patch notes about it, but their item/skill/enemy balancing is usually done with the maximum 'player power' in mind.

    It just seems like Blizzard doesn't have the heart to give the highest level of player progress an advantage over the highest level of content difficulty. That's fair for the reason of having challenging content available for everyone at any progression, but never allows a slight amount of imbalance which could give you the somewhat rewarding feeling of having mastered the game.

    With the auction house gone, what's the justification for barring the last few percents of maximum player power behind thousands of hours of additional playtime? With legendaries as ultimate rewards in the game still having randomized stats, is another high-end objective really neccessary just for the sake of endless re-re-re-re-re-…replayability of the existing, rather limited content? Especially if that new high-end objective is just a loveless numeric upgrade with a golden border around its visualization? In my opinion, quality (!) playtime worth thousands of hours can't really be achieved by a system coded in five minutes.

  13. I like the concept of keeping the item hunt fresh, but having 10% chance to drop on Torment 6 is way too low. That means basically anyone that is below T6 has no reasonable hope to obtain those items. I think they should rething the drop rates and make it something like 8% drop chance per torment level.

  14. I think the Ancient items idea should be scrapped and more items like the Ramaladni’s Gift should be put in the game and drop at a higher frequency. Not only allowing you to add slots to weapons but also add slots to other items so you can choose another stat on armor too.

    I think this idea would allow players to choose what they want to upgrade and remove RNG from the upgrade equation which I feel is a good thing, because RNG is so annoying and should only really apply to drops.

  15. The only thing I can see annoying on an ancient item, is if it rolls with only 1 desirable stat — usually the mainstat. Now if it had at least two desirable stats (mainstat and either CHD or CHC) then I'd be comfortable even though CHD/CHC will not scale along with ancient boost (along with all other percentage-based stats). What I would like to see, though, is that ancient legendaries that grant a boost to element damage have their range bumped up by ~3% (turning 15-20% to 18-23%). That would make thematic builds squeal.

  16. Honestly , Ancient items should be super rare , not something so common and 10% is really really common for something that will make all the future drops from the same legendary almost salvage material except for perfect rolls or another ancient.

    I think the 5-10% is fine for super rare legendaries because they almost never drop anyways but for the more common ones it should be much lower than 5%. I think they should be something you are very happy to see but not disappointed when it doesn't drop because it is crap in comparison to your badly rolled ancient legendary.

    • I think you misunderstand. It's 1-10% of the *original* drop chance, depending on difficulty / GR level. So let's say the game decides to drop a Legendary bow for you. IIRC you have 1.5% chance of it being Kridershot and 0.015-0.15% chance of it being Ancient Kridershot.

      • I don’t think that is how the math will work in case of ancient items. That would be next to impossible to get them. I think if you roll legendary item, that there is secondary independent roll, so the chance is 0,1 of it being Ancient.

        • I think that's what HardRock meant and just overlooked mixing the two layers of probability in his expression:

          1,5% chance of a bow being Kridershot
          1/66,667 to 1/10 chance of dropped Kridershot being of Ancient Item type (HardRock took 1/100 to simplify expressing himself here)

          The stone you seem to stumble upon is, that he hadn't made it clear enough that the 0.015-0.15% chance was a part inside the 1.5% chance of the bow dropping as a Kridershot. Thus you've took it as another multiplier reducing the chances instead.

  17. lol , anything to keep you grinding away . I wonder how much bonus the developer got in his pay packet with this one .

    Another 3 months are they going to slightly up it again and everyone again think it's a positive move ?

    Only in Diablo .

  18. We need something NEW.

    This is not new, it's the same old items with higher numbers.

    If this category of items were a set of new items that blatantly broke 4/2 rules with around 12 affixes, several of which were higher and unique abilities not found anywhere else? Yes it'd be even more RNG BS barricading builds themselves, but at least you'd have different capabilities when (or more likely, if) you got one.

    Instead it's just a Furnace that makes your current one (and you've only found 1, in 500 hours) a rare. Actually no. The difference between rare > leg is SMALLER than the difference between leg > ancient. Rares are auto salvaged by all except the 2 hour (total) hyper casuals that actually support this idea.

    Google Van Helsing 2 Godlike items, that is a starting point infinitely better than what Blizzard offered after months of derping about. And all they really did was throw on some rare affixes and then double the number of affixes. That and give items preset affixes with variable ranges, so when you do find an ultra rare you don't soul it because it has prime stat vit life regen life on hit.

  19. I like the idea of adding some sort of flavor to the item hunt. However, I think this is just a lazy fix. In my opinion I'd rather see something more intuitive to this system than just turning existing legendaries into garbage.

    What if instead of pushing numbers Ancient Legendaries would modify the existing legendary affix of the item? Or maybe add a second legendary affix?

    This would require adding legendary affixes to all legendaries though… But still.

  20. I have such mixed feelings about this. On one hand, it increases our ability to move up the GRift ladder. On the other hand, if I already have a ancient item in a slot, it will make any normal drop for that item totally useless. So instead of farming for a better roll of Item X, I'd now be hunting for a better roll of Ancient Item X. It will be incredibly hard to find and completely goes down the negative effects of RNG road.

    It's power creep. nothing more and we don't need that. We need more useful legendaries to choose from. We also need more end game content choices.

    All this will do is shift how high of a GR people can achieve. And that isn't really something we needed.

    • I honestly think people who think this is a "big positive" don't realize what the consequences will be, both on the whole and on an individual level. To be clear, the rest of my post won't be directed towards you.

      I can see people going: "yay, we'll get even more powerful, awesome!", but actually very few people will be. Why? Well, for almost all slots (weapons being the exception) 1-30% more stats (look at the new ranges in the pictures, it's not even a guaranteed 30% bonus) doesn't matter that much, the specific Legendary affix you have is much more important to your characters power. Even if you get the same Legendary you have, but as an Ancient item, there's no guarantee that you'll get the same affixes, which means your power could very well drop with them. Good luck finding another one!

      Let's move on to weapons. Sure, the first Ancient one you'll find will probably be a huge upgrade, . There's just two problems:

      1) The good ones will be extremely rare. Like I said above, even if the game will roll a Legendary bow for you the chance of it being an Ancient Kridershot is only about 0.15% at T6, meaning that every 666th (coincidence?! …yes) Legendary bow will be an Ancient Kridershot. Given that now all Legendary weapons will be bows you'll be looking for a long time for those optimal items and their rarity will wreak havoc on the top end of the GR leaderboards. You guys think randomness is main decider of how far you can progress on the GR ladder now? Just wait until Ancient items get here.

      2) Congrats, you just found your first 4k DPS Ancient weapon! Now 99.99% of weapons will be downgrades for you. Don't worry, I'm sure Über Ancient items are coming in Patch 2.2, to give you something better to look for. Their drop chance? Who cares at this point, right?

      Saying that Ancient items are only meant for the best of best is a nice sentiment, but sadly it ignores the fairly significant epercussions these items will have on the game as a whole. Besides, this whole idea of catering to the hardcore crowd already failed once with the ye olde Inferno and the original affixless Legendary items. Trying something very similar again is ironic given that the devs were all about learning from their mistakes at this BlizzCon. Hell, back then even streamers complained that the drop chances are bad and Ancient items will be even worse.

      I hope I could illustrate why I think the devs aren't solving any issues with Ancient items or even how they are making things much worse. Power creep won't result in a more interesting itemization, more Legendary affixes will, as they would introduce new options for us to play with. Ancient items don't do that and I really hope they won't survive the PTR.

      • Khm, meant to say "Given that *not* all Legendary weapons will be bows…"

      • your point here about ancient weapons is spot on and dare I say understated.

        Lets say I'm a Crusader. And I happen to find a Ancient Grandfather sword. But I want to do the condemn build which means I need the Blade of Prophecy. Unless it drops as an ancient, it will be a serious downgrade.

        That is a HUGE problem to this whole idea. At the very least, weapons need to be left out of this silliness.

        We need to test on PTR and we really need to let them have it in the forums if our fears prove true.

  21. i personally loved the 'Kitten on a Stick'

  22. My main issue with the Ancient Items concept is: It clearly illustrates that the devs still havn't learned that it wasn't the itemization responsible for D2s longterm replayability without the need of constant content updates.

    Sure, the item-hunt indeed was at the center of D2s gameplay. But it was the weight given to the hunt by surrounding motivations, mainly PvP and gradual character development, that made it work longterm. Item-hunt for the sake of the item-hunt for the sake of challenging just the same mobs in tougher keeps being interesting only for so long, unless your part of the (from my perspective) small crowd digging exactly just that. And then it just turns into burning you out on the hack'n'slay gameplay alltogether.

    • Ancient Items would be of far more worth, if they'd be rewards given to a clan for absolving coordinated groupplay centered clanquests, with lead members of the clan able to "borrow" them to other clan members for a time.

  23. I was quite negative towards that concept but listening to the podcast I heard one thing, apparently said by Wyat that made me a bit more positive towards it. That was the fact that finding an ancient version of something might sway people to actually try a new build. Thinking about it I would most likely do something like that.

    Of course, an ancient furnace will still be the ultimate goal, which doesn't help but at least hopefully we'll see more builds in lower grifts and T6.

    • To try out a new "build" I would have to throw out the items from a setup I'd like to keep playing or where I'm still hunting the complimentary items for. Or I'd need at least three times the character slots. Or around five times the inventory space to keep all the items for all the setups I'd like to swap to inbetween at hands at all times. With the games restrictions as they are, I'll be really surprised if seeing Wyatts hope turning into reality.

      • I agree with the points you brought up, but I can see it happen for some people if only temporarily.

        I myself was running the Great Crusade build (Fate of the Fell+Eternal Union) but then died and couldn't get items as good as ones I had. So getting bored of not finding the upgrades I needed, I decided to play around with the Heart Slaughter I found in the meantime and now I'm playing Stampede (which seems to be a more effective build anyway but that's not the point).

  24. As the game stands right now, the population is heavily skewed towards T6 games. People are just getting more powerful in proportion to the monsters they are facing. The majority are sitting at the end-game, bored, with only high-level GRifts to look forward to. This is because of the giant consecutive nerfbats that have hit since Patch 1.4.

    Why are we at this current state? Because entitled casuals kept crying over how hard/unfair the game and loot drop % was. This \gimme\ attitude led to what we have today: a pretty unsatisfying, boring item hunt. I mean, once you have that perfect Calamity and level 40+ leg gems, what else is there to look forward to?

    I for myself actually did enjoy Inferno pre 1.4. I loved how, after numerous failed attempts, it took me an hour of perfectly dodging ground effects and fireballs to finally beat Diablo on Inferno. It was a huge sense of accomplishment that hasn’t been matched ever since.

    You are forgetting/taking for granted that legendary drop rates have been given a huge boost recently, thus making Ancient drop rates roughly on par with vanilla drop rates. That seems pretty decent to me.

    Also, we are getting Sescheron and new mob types soon. That’s an appropriate amount of freebies the Diablo III community is getting despite the loss of revenue from the AH being binned. IMO the demand for a rune-type system etc will only ever get consideration in the context of a future D3 expansion. One can only ask so much from a non-sub based game.

    In the meanwhile, sit tight.

    • I guess your main interests are rooted in mmorpg gameplay, because you seem to have forgotten that it was using mmo-style progression curves instead of arpg progression curves behind the criticism over the hard gear walls of Inferno pre 1.4 and the reason for a lot of core fans of the arpg gameplay loosing interest in D3. It's ok to defend the development team, but don't mistake our criticisms here as a shoutout from casuals asking for effortless success: All we want also is to reach for the best Diablo game of all times. Same as the devs.

  25. I forgot to mention this, but it does not matter how much build versatility we get, when we are easily one/two-shotting mobs in T6 in the first place.

    Versatility only becomes important in direct proportion to the length and difficulty of the fights. The longer combat is, the more apparent numerous play style deviations will be in order to succeed in the encounter.

    As such, when one looks at the current “easy” state of the game, demand for more build types is simply out of place.

    • More challenging does not equal more difficult. And where more challenging opens up room for more build diversity, more difficult does just the opposite. Following the comments since vanilla release, that's actually one thing that the fanbase hasn't forgotten but is telling the devs that they have forgotten it, with the result of constantly addition of new content being needed. Over and over again, with just the words changing over time.

    • With your classes' One True Sets.

      Now try it without those.

      Now consider if GRs are ever relevant, meaningful content, they are a much higher bar (mostly, a damage check).


      Remember kids, this is a game where 4k weapon damage skills are low difficulty bait.

  26. Ancient items will possibly spawn specific requests as in:"LF 1 more DH Ancient Weapon only". Also, voted "Big Negative because current legs -> junk".

  27. no matter how frequently those things drop: everyone will hunt them. even if there was only a 0,0001% chance to get an ancient legendary, some players would play until every item slot is filled with an ancient one. this new top tier of itmes devalues existing “normal” legendaries by a lot. basically, normal legendaries are the new rares.

    this is lazy game design.

    • Normal legendaries have their ability, have their flavour. So, IMHO they’re not rares, rares drop all the time, doesn’t have anything different. I think it’s not lazy design, it’s something to people that are in a place where they can’t pass some GRs levels and want more. It’s simple to implement? Yes, this is why they are putting, if they’re going to change this in the future by putting better systems, I don’t know, but new systems will not come in ROS.

  28. When the cake is made of poop, you don’t smear a layer of consecutively better icing on it. This is just a bandaid to artificially add “new” legendaries to the game in a really easy and lazy way.

  29. RNG isn’t a big problem when you play a lot, because probability tends to equalize, so I don’t see a problem with AIs. Anyway, nowadays, I don’t have much time to play.

    • But I agree that 1-30% is to much wide, maybe 1-10%?

      • The range itself makes perfect sense to me. Assuming the worst affix rolls on , let's say AllRes: About a third of Ancient Items won't be better than the normal Leg with a good roll on the affix. And also it can happen, a Leg full on bad rolls is rare. Most Ancient drops will be more in the middle of both layers in calculating effective affix values. Thus an unlucky roll is still possible, but an upgrade pretty probable. A range from 1-10% couldn't manage that, producing too much frustration in the process. A range from 1-20% could, but is still too unreliable, to turn Ancient Items into the candy it's supposed to be. As you've said: Probability tends to equalize.

        • Yeah, right, but I think 1-30% for a very uncommon drop is a problem, maybe 10-20%, something less frustrating and less awesome. In this case, those who play a lot won’t be angry by getting an AI that isn’t the best roll and seasons won’t be so influenced by RNG.

          • That it is too awesome an upgrade to pass on is actually not the problem of ancient items. It's more the implementation, the item hunt simply drawn out by adding another rng of rarity on top.

            If ancient items would be implemented as a reward upgrade option, similar to charsi enchanting an item in D2, it would provide the player with an increment of the feeling of being able to control developement of his characters and not only being at the mercy of rng.

            That the quest ineviteably would be farmed until all equip worn is being upgraded has impact on the value of working as a bandaid prolonging the item hunt could easily be compensated by having the range between 1-10% rolling with double the probability than the range between 21-30%. A bad roll on the Ancient Item bonus would still pose an upgrade, but would make it favorable to hunt down the item again for taking another shot at rolling a good bonus.

            And in effect, the value of current items would even increase instead and the itemhunt would be gaining a small, additional motivation backing it up. Though in numbers it makes no difference, it would make the hunt more interesting at once and would turn the Ancient Item idea from a controverse into a good content addition instantly.

          • edith says sorry for the hickup: rarity of rng

          • I agree this is better (if they keep the 1-30% range). Yet, they could let the ancient drops, because, while you try to get the reward \make X legendarie an ancient\, you can find it on the ground, or find another ancient legendarie that is so much better you must use it while you don’t upgrade/find the one you want. Adding some variety to your game (or not, if the property is boring LOL). But I think people wouldn’t like so much AIs in this case… Anyway, it’s not so simple to implement a bandaid 🙂

          • "Anyway, it’s not so simple to implement a bandaid 🙂 "

            I totally agree. And blindly following a philosophy ignoring the psychology behind gameplay elements differentiating the genre from other, similar ones does make it even harder to develop a working bandaid. 😉

          • Just an idea, because if there'd really be both methods of Ancient Items (Drops & questreward "upgrade enchantement") implemented into the game, the questreward would offer too easy an opportunity. Making it into a storymode only reward could perhaps work out, but would be too tedious to most players. And most prefere playing Adventure Mode anyways.

            So why not make the questreward tied to a bounty, which provides "Material" needed for the smith to enchant one owned item with with the "ancient item property"? To do that, he additionally would need an Ancient Item to transfer the property from. (Perhaps this would have to be of the same slot, on weapons of either melee or ranged type or even of the same weapon group. As the balance seems best.)

            As I've said: Just an idea.

          • I think there are many ways they could implement this, but, yes, this is a good way imho.

  30. Couldn't believe Wyatt Cheng was saying they use RNG as a way to artificially extend the replayability/life span of the game. If the developers are going to trust in chaos, then why not fire the developers altogether? It's obvious by now they won't be bringing in innovation or acclaim. Wyatt really seemed out of it this Blizzcon… I thought he was the voice of reason back in the JW days, but sheesh. I thought he really dropped the ball when he put up that map of a GRift that was a straight line, and tried to paint it as a bad thing. That other dev was so spot on when he said "It's very practical." It's nice to see at least SOME people at Blizzard are actually playing the game now outside of media events…

    • I actually think Wyatt's point was bang on there and I say that as someone who really likes those corridor maps. You have to remember that having a practical and efficient map isn't mutually exclusive with one that's also more random (layout-wise) and interesting. The problem is that currently the most simplistic maps are the best, but it doesn't have to be this way. It's possible to change enemy density in a way that if you take an identical line that those basic maps have on an open, Wailing Hollow type map you'll encounter the same amount of enemies, meaning that efficiency would be the same. What I took away from that part of the panel is that this is exactly their goal, while they also plan to reduce the length of deadends on dungeon maps, further equalizing efficiency between all.

  31. I agree this is better (if they keep the 1-30% range). Yet, they could let the ancient drops, because, while you try to get the reward \make X legendarie an ancient\, you can find it on the ground, or find another ancient legendarie that is so much better you must use it while you don’t upgrade/find the one you want. Adding some variety to your game (or not, if the property is boring LOL). But I think people wouldn’t like so much AIs in this case… Anyway, it’s not so simple to implement a bandaid 🙂

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