Upon Closer Inspection: In Praise of Rerolling? - Diabloii.Net

Upon Closer Inspection: In Praise of Rerolling?


I recently did something in Diablo 3 that I’d never done before, and it’s something that I bet a lot of you guys have never done at all. I made a new character of the same class as one of my existing characters. No, it wasn’t a misclick. No it wasn’t just a mule. No I didn’t forget that the Beta was over.

I made a new Hardcore Demon Hunter, but this isn’t an article about “my first HC D3 char,” though I’ll probably write one of those at some point, after I get some more play time and figure a way to structure it so that I’m not just repeating things Xanth has already said..

I’m not going full on Hardcore yet, but after some weeks of alternating my play time between a Wizard, Barbarian, and Demon Hunter, all at level 60, I was in the mood for some different content. Lower level content. Inferno is fun and item hunt-alicious, but going back to the beginning was enjoyable in a different way, especially with the added excitement of Hardcore style mortality.

My HC Demon Hunter is doing fine, and after about 5 hours of more-meticulous-than-usual play time she’s into mid-Act 3 and hoarding every gem and gold coin like Smeagol on meth. (And I should enjoy it while it lasts, since I think Demon Hunters are the least likely long term HC success story.) But this isn’t an article about Hardcore play!

It’s an article about rerolling, and if you click through you’ll read what’s fun about rerolling, what I learned playing a new character through old content, why Blizzard removed any reason to reroll from the game, and some speculation about how that’s changed the play experience.


What’s Fun About Rerolling

Nurses, flight attendents, and Demon Hunters -- best when female.

The rerolling experience was an interesting one. I hadn’t done a new character from scratch since a few days after Diablo III launched, back in May. During the first week I made one of each class and leveled them each to at least 15, to experiment with the early game stuff and at least get my feet wet with every class. In retrospect I have no idea why I felt the need to play five new characters just through the Beta content once the Beta was (finally) over. It seemed like a good idea at the time, and yes, that’s Jay Wilson’s usual excuse to defend D3 design decisions when Bobby Kotick drunk dials him at 3am, screaming about insufficient RMAH revenues. (I wanted to get my contractually-obligated DiabloWikiBobby’s Eyes reference out of the way early on.)

So, it took me 8 weeks to feel any nostalgia for levels 1-13, but when I returned there, it was fun. I hadn’t done any HC play since the Beta, so I was starting completely from scratch. No gear, no artisans, no gold, etc. And since I was playing Hardcore, I approached the early levels differently. I wasn’t super cautious, since Act One is pretty easy, but I did spend additional effort on making sure I had decent equipment. And the fact that I was HC, and that I didn’t have twinks or gold, meant that I had to take the early gameplay experience seriously. More seriously than I’ve taken recent low and mid-level play with my Monk and WD, both of whom are well-twinked out from stuff my big 3 have found.

The main difference I noticed with this new Demon Hunter was due to using new/different skills than I do with my level 60 DH, and to replaying the beginning content now that I know what I’m doing. I thought I was experienced at D3 after the Beta, but those early levels don’t require enough skill to serve as much of a training ground. Playing through Act One and Act Two now, I knew every scenario as soon as I saw it, knew what to expect from all the enemies, and knew how best to use my skills in different scenarios.

While playing I kept encountering enemies or areas that I remembered being troubled by when I first played through the game. And invariably, I wondered how lame I must have been to find them dangerous. Remember when you didn’t know enough to back away from a Molten boss when it died? When you didn’t notice that orange circle forming under your feet while you were busy shooting at/pounding on a Desecrator? When the appearance of several little blueish-white dots around the screen didn’t start an automatic timer in your head, letting you know exactly how far and fast you had to move to avoid being frozen? When you’d remain where you were standing after being hit by a flaming projectile from a Fallen Shaman or Mage Construct?

Dodging that sort of stuff has long since become second nature for me, along with habits like moving left or right after every shot to stay a step ahead of Mortars and avoid other incoming projectiles, dropping a Caltrops before Vaulting back to get firing room against fast attackers, etc. Now that I know how to play, my main challenge with most boss packs on Normal was trying to kill them without taking a single hit, and I often found myself wondering how it was even possible to die to a boss with only one modifier. What matters Jailer or Waller when they can’t stick Frozen or Arcane Enchanted into the mix? Who cares about Vortex when they can’t pull me into Molten and Fire Chains? Etc.

Yes, you’re free to quote this back to me when I get lazy about defensive gear and skills and get swarmed by a Champion group of Fast Soul Lashers in Act Three.


Why No Rerolling in Diablo III?

Diablo III’s developers made several design decisions meant to minimize the need/reason to ever reroll a character in Diablo III, as they departed from the D1 and D2 system of permanency (and thus multiplicity) in character creation. A Bashiok argument on the issue, from February 2012:

Leveling characters is cool, and some people legitimately enjoy that process, and we agree it can be fun and would still like to find ways to reward people who enjoy leveling additional characters, but being required to get through it just to try out some different skills is no longer acceptable to us. That’s a level of masochism we just don’t care to revisit. We thank the 90?s for their contributions to game design, and the ‘crush the player’s soul’ dungeon master mentality, but we’re moving on. We have this crazy notion that games shouldn’t punish you for trying to enjoy them.

Fact of the matter is though that the longevity in Diablo II was not made by leveling characters. You can get a character to 80 in a matter of hours. The longevity was from experimentation, customization, and the randomized item drops needed to perfect them. And that’s amazingly even considering that a huge portion of the item hunt was completely ruined due to the mass proliferation of what should be insanely rare items. Longevity in Diablo is from exploration, character customization, and more specifically, killing monsters to see what they drop – not leveling.

Avoiding the temptation to digress into *conversation* (ranting) about the issues of longevity, character customization, and item hunting in Diablo III… Bashiok makes some reasonable points about rerolling. His “crush the player’s soul” hyperbole is silly, but Diablo II was much sillier by including no way to respec skills or skills whatsoever. Not even to fix a misclick. Respecs were eventually added in patches directed by the D3 developers, but not until 10 years after release, and by that time it’s not as if anyone still playing the game was like, “I need to experiment with a variety of skills to decide what I want to build for, long term.”

There’s no way to say if freespecs would have had a positive or negative effect on D2, back in its glory days. It’s impossible to make a full comparison of D2 to D3, since player expectations were very different back in 2000, the pace of character movement varies a lot between the games, low level chars in D2 can level up much faster than D3 thanks to shared experience in large games, and D2’s skill system/skill points/attributes/etc enabled and required much more thought and planning and character identity. But while there were a lot of player complaints about Diablo 2 in the early days, if anyone was really vexed by having to make another Sorceress or Amazon or Necromancer from scratch if they wanted to play a different build, I don’t remember it being voiced.

This despite the fact that making a new character in Diablo II had a lot of dumb and unfun aspects, such as not being able to spend many/any of your skill points until level 18, or 24, or 30. (Later patches with skill synergies altered this system considerably.)

This isn’t to say that D3’s freespecs system is awful. I very much enjoy being able to try out every skill on the same character, and to switch around as I level up. I also think the Nephalem Valor system is a decent mechanic for late game, though I don’t think it really matters in terms of adding character identity by discouraging constant respecs in the end game. Most players create a build that’s the best for all types of random boss encounters, and if there’s respecing late game it’s when boredom or curiosity drives a total character revision, or when a very different build is required to beat a specific quest boss or Act Boss.

Demon Hunter Skill Digression

Here’s a quick summary of some of my impressions of the Demon Hunter skills, and how they felt different using them at level 10 or 20 than at 60. This is not meant as a strategy article or a skill analysis, and is likely of interest largely to DH players. The rest of you are free to skip down a few paragraphs to the conclusion.

I hadn’t used DiabloWikiHungering Arrow in weeks, since discovering how much better DiabloWikiCovering Fire was for virtually every situation, but that rune effect isn’t available until level 34, and the other/earlier forms of DiabloWikiEvasive Fire aren’t any good. So D3’s version of the piercing Guided Arrow it was, and I found it fun and effective against individual targets, though it took me a bit to remember that my main Hatred Generator was crap against larger groups of enemies and had a lag time between the click and the hit.

I hadn’t used any type of DiabloWikiChakram in weeks, but once I rolled up DiabloWikiTwin Chakrams at 18 I remembered why I loved that skill on my first run through the game. Hurling them into a horde of onrushing Fallen on the open plains of early Act Two remained quite satisfying, It also reminded me why I stopped using that skill later in the game, since it’s unsuitable for quickly hurling over your shoulder while kiting.

I’ve come to enjoy DiabloWikiBall Lightning at high levels, but I didn’t use it/like it on my first Demon Hunter until I was in Hell, so starting to use it at level 24 (which I dinged to late in Act 2, while replaying some content to level up before Belial) was awesome. God did it hot knife through butter the hordes of skeleton trash mobs in Zoltan Kulle’s funhouse levels.)

Best of all, I could once again DiabloWikiVault with the freedom and impunity granted to speed-addicted Demon Hunters on difficulty levels not choked with DiabloWikiJailer, DiabloWikiWaller, DiabloWikiDesecrator, DiabloWikiMortar, DiabloWikiChampion packs of the sort that mandate DiabloWikiSmoke Screen for survival. Even bester, I now know enough to use DiabloWikiPreparation all the time, which combines with Vault to give the Demon Hunter a truly Olympian ability at cartwheeling through the levels and simply humiliating the slower-moving enemies who are lucky to even time to turn around before I flash past them and blast them from the other side.

Rerolling = Longevity?

Obviously players *can* reroll at any point in Diablo III. There’s nothing to stop you from offloading all of a character’s gear, deleting them, and then making a new one, which you can level up with or without twinks. Or you could just not allow yourself to respec, or to only respec a limited number of times. But you could say the same about Hardcore mode, since you could just delete your Softcore character when they died.

By the same token, there’s nothing to stop you from using god mode bots in most single player games, or cheating at solitaire, etc. The point is that games of all types become or remain fun by imposing limits and controls that you have to work to overcome, within the parameters of the system. That’s why it’s really fun when you find a great item in the game, a bit less fun when you just buy it in the Auction House, and wouldn’t be any fun at all if you could just type a cheat code in and create it from thin air, without any cost.

The question is if the game provides any incentives to do so, and if rerolling, or game features designed to encourage it, would improve the play experience and/or longevity. And about that, I dunno. I didn’t mind making new characters in the early days Diablo 2, but I was playing HC exclusively back then, so it was mandated as a punishment for failure. I haven’t had time or desire to play only HC thus far in D3, partially since the leveling up process takes so much longer in D3, mostly since you need such uber gear to succeed in Inferno. Most any level 70 character with decent gear could compete in the D2X end game, whereas a level 60 with good enough gear to struggle through Hell will probably die to the first boss pack they meet in Inferno.

Since Inferno balancing is a whole different question, let’s stick to the rerolling topic for today. So how about it?

Have any of you guys rerolled? Did you enjoy it? Were you curious to revisit lower level skills, or just really bored, or do you play Hardcore so the new character wasn’t exactly by choice? Do you think you’d enjoy Diablo III more if the game placed some limits on the number of skills you could use on a given character? Or had high costs for respecing? (Personally, I’d have to say no, but I think that largely goes with the D3 system of no skill points or stat points. Since you’re not doing anything to customize your individual character, it would feel weird and stupid to be locked into using them however you first made them.)

In any event, I can recommend trying a reroll, and not just to make a new class. It’s fun to reuse those early skills and revisit those early areas with better tactics. I do think it’s best tried with a HC char, or even on a different realm, to avoid the temptation to massively twink the character out. Much like abusing the GAH bounty before Inferno, when you actually *need* the gear, overgearing a character at the low or mid levels takes away all the fun and challenge, and turns the game into a very boring click click click ordeal.

Comments

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  1. So is Blizzard paying you guys too now?

    • It really seems odd because this site used to seem objective now it is mostly praising the game. On this site’s forums if there are any complaints in new topics then they are merged and buried into one thread. This hurts and hides discussion and valid complaints with a different perspective.

      The end game item hunt is definitely not “hunt-alicious”. You would have to be relatively inexperienced in inferno to find it to be that way. I just did another full act 2 and act 3 run today just to justify myself one last time and I found mostly all unsellable garbage with 358% MF.

      I am so bored of Diablo 3 and I have to wait until Guild Wars 2. I asked someone on my friends list what he is doing until Guild Wars 2 and he told me he is playing League of Legends. I might actually give that a try.

      • They’ll probably delete this tree. If they do it’s a pretty much solidified fact they are now on Blizzard’s reviewer payroll.

        LoL isn’t bad. I’m playing that and enjoying some cheap indie games on Steam. They’re having a summer sale. Under $5 for some nice titles.

        • So do you guys disagree that rerolling is fun, or what?

          • Is rerolling fun? Normal mode can be alright a few times with a nice radiant star gem such as an amethyst and gemmed armor. Nightmare and Hell however are completely boring. There is barely any useful loot at all and doesn’t have the same twink factor. After a few times rerolling through normal even with the twink factor, it can get really lame.

            Now Diablo 2 I liked rerolling in. There was just much more of a community feeling while leveling up again in Diablo 2. Even for solo the items you could twink down from Normal to Hell made it interesting. The leveling up was also more interesting because you would level with a new build and very nice twinked uniques and sets to make the play style feel unique. I don’t get the same nice feeling with Diablo 3.

          • As I mentioned in the article, IMHO playing a new character with massive twinks is an absolutely guaranteed way to get really bored, really quickly. I know numerous players who are already burnt out on the game, and aside from Grug on the last podcast, almost all of the followed the same path. Frantically rushed one char to Inferno, bought everything in the AH, and then found Inferno too hard and no fun since they never found any item upgrades.

            My DH was fun precisely because I went HC and was starting from scratch (and wasn’t interested in just buying gear via the GAH), so I had to actually play the game and experience it and work to succeed.

            I’ve done overtwinked chars; I recently took my Monk from 20 to 30 or so in about an hour of running through Acts 3 and 4 while really overgeared, and it was INCREDIBLY boring. No strategy, using just the RMB to one-shot everything with Deadly Reach, no need for defensive skills or tactics, etc.
            Once I got that char to NM I choose not to equip the next round of twinked stuff and the game became greatly more fun as some challenge returned and I had to start looking for my own gear improvements, etc.

            Players have to take some responsibility for their own fun. It’s like a single player game with cheat codes; a normal person will get sick of the game really quickly using those, and thus you have to resist some of the temptation to preserve an enjoyable play experience.

            D3 has erred in design by being too accessible in many ways, and with freespecs, shared stash, shared artisans, the easy Normal difficulty, and especially the AH, it’s very easy for players to overgear and ruin their play experience. And then Inferno arrives and reverses that by being so hard that it’s a total gear check, especially for players who coasted through Hell with lame builds and tactics enabled by their AH overgearing.

          • The ability to use strategy and tactics goes out the window once you hit Hell Act 2. After this, the only strategy/tactic that works is DPS killing your enemy in 10 seconds or less. Playing smart cannot counter:

            – being immediately vortexed or rubber-banded right back to where you were standing after you have already used a potion/escape skill to heal and escape
            – getting feared and forced to run the length of the beam of an arcane turret
            – getting chain-frozen in molten/desecrator
            – enrage timers
            – any other idiotic situation where you cannot move, use skills, or control the direction of your movement

            You have to kill the enemies before they do this crap to you. Otherwise, you will die. Period.

            In addition, Hell Act 2 is where being able to play with the equipment you have found goes out the window as well. D3 pretty much sucks all the fun out of the game at this point. Why? Because with skill and tactics we should be able to move forward with sub par gear to try and find better gear. But no, we are face rolled at every turn, forced to farm where we have already played, or AH, until we pass a gear-check that will allow us to face roll the enemies of the next area; rinse, repeat.

            I’m having a hard to time forcing myself to log in a play. I do think of rerolling, because pre-Act 2 Hell is where all the fun is to be had, but I cannot force myself to do this either because there is ZERO reason to do so. What am I going to do different? There is no build permanence and all said and done, the only viable skills are the ones I’m using on my level 60’s. Furthermore, the maps are all the same, even the ones touted as being random. I don’t count maps as being random when I subconsciously choose the proper direction 95%+ of the time. And don’t get me started on the yellow mini-map arrows.

        • I picked up Divine Divinity for $4 last week. I’d never played it before, and for a 10 year old game, I’m actually enjoying it quite a bit.

        • It’s someone’s bread and butter here, (maybe toasted on one side?).

      • Heroes of Newerth is similar to League of Legends but much better graphics (grittier realistic like D3 instead of cartoony LoL style). I’ll warn that there is a very steep learning curve that requires the accumulation of a LOT of knowledge about hundreds of abilities in order to succeed. Once obtained, however, the game is fantastic.

      • The threads are emerged so the same arguments are not reposted over and over again stifling any other conversation. I think Elly posted to say as much in the forums. We all know the game has problems which will hopefully be addressed by Blizzard and we are all playing the game just like everyone else.

        As for being negative or positive, just read the news page, it’s full of positive and what some may consider negative threads. This site has always been objective and will remain so.

      • And yet you keep posting on a Diablo website….

        Go play your fun games, buddy.

      • @Rainbows N Unicorns

        We’ve already been over this in the forum and I don’t know why you keep harping on about in when your accusation is disproved on a nearly daily basis with new threads that fall into the ‘negative’ category. Threads on the same topic that are repetitive are merged. Just as if two people make a new thread about a news item are merged (usually they’ve made them at the same time and didn’t realise the other was also posting it). Stop looking for conspiracies where there aren’t any. It’s just tedious.

        So, let’s stick to the facts. That people hate this game is a fact, that people like this game is a fact and that people love this game is a fact. This community is made up of all those people and have to exist (while here) together.

        As you’ve said you’ll be playing GW2 when it’s out so it’s a moot issue as you’ll be moving on imminently.

    • This site is a diablo 3 fan site. The guys who run it will have realized that the success of the website depends on the game being popular. Prior to release they could get away with being negative as it was all speculative. Now its in the sites interest to keep fans enjoying the game so they keep visiting the site.

      This is still by far the most objective fansite.

  2. I’ve rerolled two characters after my first character reached level 60 (all are softcore/non-AH/RMAH).
    I didn’t realize how much I enjoy leveling a character from absolute zero -until playing a second character in DIII.
    When I play games like these, I really do like starting a character from absolute zip. I think there are several things in DIII which can frustrate this -specifically shared stash, shared bank, and shared artisans.
    Seriously, I never felt like I needed to pick up any gold with my second character because my first character had done all the hard work. Ditto goes for all the gems and crafting material and artisan levels.
    Basically, I became bored because my second character felt like he was ‘freeloading’ off my first character’s hard work.
    Sure, you could argue, I could try and segregate my stash into sections for all my characters, but that’s about as lame as Blizzard thinks swapping out MF gear for the last second bonus is. 😕 -What about the gold? How can I split all this up between my characters and keep track of who owns how much?
    What about the artisans? I find it a little odd that I will realistically only ever see these artisans level up once for as long as I own the game (unless they reset when I delete all my characters -has anyone ever done this? I sure won’t be doing it anytime soon.) It’s a fun effect and too bad I’ll only see it happen once.
    I haven’t tried hardcore yet. Do they share stash, gold, and artisans between one another? I’ll have to look into that. If they do keep things segregated, maybe this is the way I will have to play from now on.

    • HC works just like SC. Shared gold, stash, etc.

        • While its true HC works just like SC they dont share the SAME stash so if you start a HC character for th first time you will have to level up your artisans.

          • Yes, this is true. Everything SC and HC is separated.
            What’s odd is that if you have a stash full of stuff with only one HC character, every artisan pattern, and that HC character dies, the stash and artisan area always there in the state they were when you left. So you can’t even manually reset it.

  3. Inferno is fun and item hunt-alicious

    Who are you, and what have you done with Flux?
    I’m in the process of re-rolling each class. I have all classes to 60 but I’m achievement hunting at this point. I am not really enjoying it at all, to be honest. I don’t feel there’s a reason outside of a very time-consuming achievement. The only upside is that every blue moon I’ll have a legendary from my stash that the character can wear which is borderline not-mediocre to actually use.

  4. Smoke Screen is so overrated, it has never been mandatory except for glass cannon style DHs. You need some defensive skills, sure, but that’s about it.

    Glad though that others enjoy rerolling aswell, I am currently exploring the dangerous realm of HC gaming and it’s a lot of fun.

    • not mandatory? being able to break pretty much all CC’s (bar waller) with no cooldown, disagrees with you.

      i play HC and not a glass cannon but SS, has never moved from my skill bar.

      • In HC you obviously want to have a defense as strong as possible and that usually includes Smoke Screen, no objections.
        Flux’ post was not about HC specifically though, it was about skills in general and it’s not the first time he calls Smoke Screen mandatory – which just isn’t true, you can clear Inferno without Smoke Screen, in SC anyway without dying more than a few times.

  5. Re-rolling… I am on my third DH. Died from a phone call at 56, then I was abandoned at 41 by a Chinese player (on the US server???) who let me get surrounded by Writhing Deceivers while he leaped away. Yeah, I would argue this game is slightly more masochistic than D2. At least in D2 HC you lost a unique build, not generic character class #147374. Lack of any permanence is hurting this game. And the supremely lame in-game community features.

    Case #2: I have also seen a Chinese player (again, US server) who stacked a ton of vitality, go alone ahead of the group and pull elite packs with the intent of killing the rest of the group. Whenever I see the asian character set now I find a new game.

  6. ever heard of Wheaton’s law?

  7. Yeah, I’ve read it all now. I thought the site was a bit objective, but there’s a post praising Inferno, the item hunt (lol), and trying to justify rerolling a character.

    In fact, I find it odd that you praise Inferno and the Item Hunt (again, lol), yet try to justify rerolling a character you already have (when you have unlimited respecs, and no skill points) just to get out of Inferno to play the Normal content (which is exactly the same, but easier and even worse items).

    But, by all means, get your money.

  8. … Yknow, Flux may be stating a sincere opinion that he actually holds 😉

    I completely agree that playing from scratch is fun; it’s why I enjoyed the beta with its frequent wipes more in some ways than the full game, and it’s why I’ve been arguing since we first heard about it against “forced twinking”. I think you should not only be free to reroll, but you should have the option for any character to play without your shared stash, gold and craftsfolk.

    Personally, I enjoy playing a weak, limited character who is continually evolving in every type of RPG rather than a godly endgame character who is lucky to get a gear upgrade once a week instead of several times an hour, and who will never get another new skill :p Character evolution is what RPGs are supposed to be all about. I reroll a lot in all games of this type.

    • May i recommend ironman? In the HC forum i made a post with some ideas of how to do it in D3. For myself it involves playing on a different Region so that everything is reset – no stash no gold no artisans. Ironman doesn’t use gold or vendors (artisans) so that’s easy.

      I’m actually going to use the artisans at least on one pseudo-ironman, to experience artisans the way they were meant to be. I’ll keep track of how much gold is each character’s, it’s not too bad.

      In fact it’s not that hard to play with no twinks of items or gold, you just need to track your character’s gold in a small spreadsheet. Starting gold when you start a session, ending gold at the end.

      The only true problem for non-ironman “purity” is the artisans, once they are levelled, it’s forever.

  9. rerolling is not fun
    you still have to play the game with the volume turned down so you aren’t forced to listen to all the ridiculous non-stop dialogue
    and you have to play with one finger over the space bar to skip all the ridiculous cut scenes and scripted events

    I can’t wait for PvP, no talking, no cut scenes, no scripts, just killing

  10. Been re-rolling hardcore since day one. Can’t make it to 60. Died five times so far, twice to lag storms, once to the game freezing, and two more times for playing reckless because I didn’t give a damn anymore.

  11. The site has certainly never looked dead, in all the 15 years we have been covering the Diablo series, even when there was no news we always keep the info and articles flowing. Any long time reader will know how much effort we put in on a weekly basis, We are not just a blue post news site and never have been.

    • Why do people come to a fan site about a game they say they hate and quit because they hate to criticize people that like the game? Not only are you surprised to find that people posting on a fan site like the game but you are some how angered by it….

      I also love how people that complain about everything about the game and attack any positive comment think of themselves as some kind of “protectors of the Diablo franchise”. Any positive comment about the game is somehow enabling the big evil gaming corporations to push out crappy games for a quick buck. These are also the same people that complained about how long the D3 development cycle was but they don’t see the irony in this.

      I really hope Flux doesn’t waste his time reading through these comments. People like him put a lot of time and energy into making a great website for people that want to hear news about a game they enjoy. It’s too bad that people that don’t like/no longer play the game come in just to make sure that no one else is allowed to enjoy the game or say anything positive.

      • Re: Top Bunk
        I try to read all the main page comments, to keep track of what people are saying and thinking and feeling. I don’t have time to read every forum post and comment across our 15 D3 forums, alas. I’ve long since learned to sift through the attention seeking trolls and/or fanboy nuts (who form 2 sides of the same irrational coin and are often the same person at different ends of their personal pendulum swing) and find useful, intelligent posts with honest opinions, and those are fun to interact with.

        I’ve said it several times before, but it’s funny how for 3 years I was negative and a hater for writing articles and news posts discussing D3’s pros and cons and changes from D2 — and now I’m a fanboy and on the Bobby’s payroll for writing articles and news posts discussing D3’s pros and cons and changes from D2. It’s almost as if those accusations say much more about the people making them than about the content they’re reading.

        The whole point of this short article was to say that replaying the early content can be interesting if you’ve only been in Inferno for weeks, and that you might want to give it a try with your favorite character. I was also interested in what people thought about D3’s freespecs system, now that they’ve had 2 months to experiment with it.

        I’ve been pondering similarly about a lot of game mechanics, such as super hard inferno, no skill points, no rune levels, auto stat points, the GAH, etc, which seemed logical and defensive when debated during development, but which are having an (arguably) adverse effect on the final game play experience.

        • This is the real reason I played exclusively on the ladder in D2: the total wipe of the slate every few months. I enjoyed getting a fresh start. Gold was important for a little bit, junk items get picked up because they’re actually upgrades, the junk set pieces were good again and got passed to the next class you roll, no godly main character to xfer piles of gold and loot right off the bat. It was refreshing. I have zero reason to reroll in D3, and if I did, it wouldn’t be the same experience due to the shared stash.

        • Edit – Please restrict trolling off-site. Thanks. ~ Elly

          • “There were times I was the only negative poster in the whole site… Now look at this big avalanche… It’s only gonna get bigger and bigger. That brings a smile to my face :)”

            That is just sad dude..

            It is common people to write about negative issues, even there might be more positive ones. It is just the nature how feedback generally works. You don’t need to inform people about what don’t need fixing, instead you seek things that are wrong in your opinion and try to find different unique solutions for those. Then there are trolls like you, thats totally own genre. 🙄

          • I am Queen Elizabeth.

            A pleasure to meet you.

        • It’s easier to get away with being negative before the launch of a game as you said you were doing. You’re essentially talking about hypothetical problems that nobody could test. I think one problem you have with your post-game praise is you hype things that the vast majority of the community feel needs to be fixed. You praise the item hunt, when that is easily one of the worst things about the game. There aren’t any items worth hunting at the moment besides a handful of legendary items and godly rares.

          Then you say something like, “The whole point of this short article was to say that replaying the early content can be interesting if you’ve only been in Inferno for weeks…” — Honestly, you believe the game is fun to reroll the same character that you just leveled up to Inferno after only a few weeks? That makes absolutely no sense… at all.

          The game is broken as evident by the dropping numbers and the willingness of Blizzard to fix the problems. The Legendary item fix wasn’t supposed to be until 1.1, but they moved it up to 1.0.4 because they know that people are leaving the game.

          There’s nothing wrong with liking the game. The problem comes when you try to force pro’s on people that read the site… Honestly, you believe the item hunt is fine and rerolling the SAME character after only two weeks is fun? There is absolutely no reason to reroll a character in D3 for anything other than if your HC character dies.

        • I guess it all comes down to pre-beta/launch them being hyper excited about D3 is coming OMG and so everything negative annoyed them (while positive stuff they kind of skipped over). Post launch they decided they dont like D3 or at lest some thing about it and such they tend to see all the positive stuff and none of the negative.

          Its just the way the human brain works.

          Edit: WTF up with replies this is a reply to Flux but it not placed right.

        • Flux, dude, your shift in tone and content was so dramatically drastic that it took us all a bit off.
          You did a complete 180 when the game came out.

    • And I suppose that if you loved Diablo III then this statement would remain the same?
      Don’t blame people for liking something you don’t and talking about it. This does not correlate into some kind of conspiracy unless you’re insane or incapable of thinking logically.

    • In the meantime have fun dealing with the non playing hating trolls who are used to have their daily fun posting in here.

      Sad really.

  12. It’s impossible to reroll with the silly 10-characters limit.
    I don’t really want to erase 1 of my characters to do it…

    Make it 20 for God’s sake!

  13. Man this site is turning in to Battle.net forums…the negativity is sickening…

    All the characters i have made so far are different class but i cant wait to reroll (with different gender). I enjoy leveling immensly (more in D3 than in previous games)but than again im weired…i have always played Diablo for fun. I dont need “carrot on the stick”. My motivation to play is fun and that doesnt seem to be very common here. Most players seem to prefer style of doing “hard work” and going through “effort” of playing so they can make powerfull level 99 D2 characters with insane gear which faceroll content… Awesome!!!

    And for those who say that there is no point because you have access to all the skills…well you dont. I might finish ACT 2 nightmare whith one combination of skills on the first playtrhough and use different skills on my next playthrough…so same content different skills…kinda like D2!

    The only thing i dont like is shared gold/stash/arisisans but since i stopped using AH while leveling its not a huge problem any more + i never twink.

    P.S. Oh and after a few playthroughs i got use to the horrible story so i cringe a lot less!

    • “I might finish ACT 2 nightmare whith one combination of skills on the first playtrhough and use different skills on my next playthrough…so same content different skills…kinda like D2!”

      😆 nothing like D2

    • I agree 100%! I enjoy the leveling a lot as well…especially switching to a low level character after doing nothing but item farming runs in Act I Inferno. I’ve also sworn off buying anything from the AH…it’s no different than typing in a cheat code in DOOM. I finally got a lucky weapon drop for my Wizard (1200 dos 2-h axe) and I had a great “woo hoo!” moment – to me that’s much more satisfying than spending hours of searching and dropping millions of gold in the AH. I don’t care if it takes me over a year to successfully clear all acts of Inferno with a character…I’m not trying to rush through the game, I’m trying to play it and enjoy it.

      • Same here! I started off playing SC and have moved onto HC for a bit of a challenge, and having a lot of fun. I love the start of RPGs when you do feel vulnerable and there’s a lot of level progression coming along. One of my HC Wizards died, and my new one hasn’t had any luck with gear, up until yesterday when I got a great weapon and finally feel as though I’m doing sufficient damage! I’ve been trying out different skills, too; I thought they weren’t great first time I played through, but they’re pretty awesome after giving them a decent chance

        I don’t tend to bother with the AH, either. I bought a couple of things to begin with back in SC, but it just didn’t feel good doing it. My friend kitted himself out with ridiculously poweful weapons from the AH and smashed through the game – I prefer a challenge.

  14. Very interesting read and it’s something I might have to try. I will agree that playing through the early content/difficulties is refreshing after you’ve been trying to farm item upgrades in Inferno. I’m still trying out all the classes and I’ve mainly focused on my level 60 Wizard and DH. I tried out building a Barbarian somewhere in the middle, took her through early Act I to kill the Skeleton King, then left that class sitting idle for a few weeks. When I finally got around to using her again, it was a lot of fun, especially approaching all the enemies from a melee perspective (as opposed to the ranged classes I started with), plus it was nice to confront overall easier enemies.

    While I didn’t do a reroll in this example, getting out of Inferno difficulty was a great change of pace. I’ve realized now that I’ve had the most fun with my characters getting them to level 60 and taking on content that isn’t outrageously demanding in terms of gear and skills. I think I can see myself doing some rerolls at some point, though I still have one class I haven’t even touched yet (WD)…and my Monk is only a meager level 15-16. Despite this game’s flaws, I have been enjoying it quite a bit (I’ve definitely put in a good number of hours too…must be close to 300 by now) and definitely looking for ways to keep things enjoyable.

    Way back when all we had to play was the first Diablo, I must have made dozens and dozens of characters (mostly Rogues!) and played through the game over and over (and that’s just in Normal single player…before Hellfire was released) simply because the basic gameplay was a lot of fun. I’m not quite sure if Diablo III has that same kind of addiction element for me, but I do find it hard to avoid double clicking on that icon!

  15. Play HC only so yeah i’ve been forced to reroll. I’m on my 3rd summoner Witch Doctor, and rerolling was an eye opening experience both times, and fun. I learned a ton about my class and skills that i never would have had i never started over. That said, after 3 rolls, i’ve got my build DOWN. I wouldn’t want to do it a 4th time. When i die, i’ll just twink #4 like crazy so it won’t hurt.

    I actually do plan to make a parallel WD though, with a completely different build. A build i once again only thought up because of experimenting levelling 3 witch doctors. So yeah, willingly rerolling, what?

    I’d rather have 2 separate witch doctor lines (i number my ancestry), especially because they will use an entirely different gear setup anyway. I’ve no interest to keep a separate gear setup stashed, and a notepadded skill setup, swapping between the 2. I could see this making sense in SC, but in HC i like to know what iteration of e.g. summoner i’m at, not a nebulous “xth” witch doctor.

  16. What have you done with my Flux!!?

  17. Except for remaking dead chars I have rerolled once, a demon hunter too actually :p
    Mostly because I ended up going to the auction house for new weapons a lot towards the end with my first DH and wanted to take it slower and without twinking on the new one.

  18. Rerolling sucks Blizzard say. You should listen to them.

  19. I played three monks to sixty, all using different skills and passives. It was fun and each played extremely different. In the end though, thats the only class I managed to get to sixty. The game to me is just that bad throughout.

    In reality its a choice of fun. They left us 10 character slots(basically one normal and one hardcore) for each class. They didn’t intend for us to reroll, because who rerolls the same class in an MMO? No one does because well that would be absurd. Again, Blizzard missed the boat on DIII some more IMO due to them only wanting a certain amount of characters per/account.

  20. So far I’ve rerolled a Barb and a Wizard. The most fun I had was with the Barb, where I played it as if I was playing D2, deciding on a final build before I even started playing and then only equipping the skills that would make up my final set. If a skill unlocked that wasn’t part of my intended build, I never used it – simple as that. It proved to be more challenging at normal difficulty and also gave me more of a sense that I was creating a character with its own identity.

  21. “Fact of the matter is though that the longevity in Diablo II was not made by leveling characters.”
    Well, I think it actualy was a not ignorable factor of fun. One of the Blizzards big mistakes in D3…

  22. If D2 dun have powerlvling would anybody liked re-rolling? There may be but i am definetly not one of them.

    Making a new character and play through slowing is not too bad a experience for me. Felt Goldy clearly Hell with 6k dps.

    DH,Monk, WD.
    Now on my Wizard and Barb, dun understand where the hate comes from when you chose to do the same thing over and over then complain it is boring.

    Really tat boring maybe can visit other game forums, or jus sore?

  23. Rerolling is fun through normal and nightmare. However, I spend all of hell difficulty annoyed, knowing all the best gear starts at req’d level 60. I think d2 and d1 with just 3 playthroughs are better. Less is more sometimes.

    I wish they would reduce the exp required for the last few levels. Tune it so you hit 60 by playing thru all quests once by mid/late act 3.

  24. I really liked to reroll in D2, I like how armor and weapons had STR requirements that you could find something really good but wasnt strong enough to use it so you had to level and it was a mini challenge to see how fast you get the levels to use your new item.

    WTH “but being required to get through it just to try out some different skills is no longer acceptable to us.” – True that you have all the skills but all the skill runes still have to be level unlocked so it is the same thing with a different name….FAIL

    Personally I see the quote should have said “but making a game that is fun to play over and over cause you can create different character and play them each in a different play still is no longer acceptable to us.” CAUSE I SEE THAT IS WHAT YOU DID.

    The item hunt if anything is 90s dead now cause you included the auction house and everything is so easy to get, all you really need to do is grind for gold and that is not fun either. Yes you could buy stuff online and there was trade forums but not everyone used them so what was available was very limited, now everyone can easily put stuff up on the AH and it is flooded with such insanely good stuff that a single play likely has no chance of every finding, you no feel drawn to it.

    I challenge anyone to spend 5 hrs doing MF runs in inferno. look at the best item you found. Now take the amount of gold you got from the run including from selling all the crap you found and go to the AH. Compare what you can buy with that gold as opposed to what you found.

    I dont want better stuff to drop easy, I just think the AH is OP! but the items you find are not exciting even when good, They all do the same thing and any character can use them. D2 items had requirements other then just levels, D2 items did skill boost not just reduced mana usage on skill runes. Does anyone remember how fun it was to find a staff that gave you +5 firewall skill? It didnt matter if it was complete crap, u wanted to use it cause it was so much fun, yeah later on you did something else but changing up was so much fun in D2.

  25. I guess I’m sort of the opposite of Flux… I’m kind of a “Timmy” who loves to equip really overboard gear and just smash everything. I haven’t re-rolled yet, but after playing through Normal with a Barbarian, I’m waiting until I’ve accumulated a lot of really sweet gear and then re-rolling the Barbarian. I’m not very good, so Normal “untwinked” was pretty hard for me, and I want my “revenge” blasting through it. Also, for me, speeding my way through the lower difficulties is its own challenge; trying to level and complete the content as fast as possible keeps me stimulated and demands overpowered gear. I have experienced God-mode fatigue in other games (I couldn’t stand Resident Evil 4 with the handcannon or chicago typewriter equipped), but not D3 for some reason.

  26. I made one character and played it for 200 hours with no urge to ever make another character just because they have made the game feel tedious. I saw this article on my FB feed and had to say, “wtf”. I switched back to SCII a while ago. Oh well, it’s time for everyone to wait 6 years for an expansion.

  27. I just rerolled a barbarian. Putting in a radiant ruby gem in normal mode was quite fun. Pretty much god mode. It’s effectiveness wears out in nightmare tho. Especially once you hit act 2.

    That said, the no rare loot off bosses in nightmare/hell (pre 60) make bosses extremely unrewarding. They really have got to fix that. Either make it first kill per difficulty level or give us NV starting in nightmare. Would prolly make elite packs more fun too.

    I’m still having a great time in the game. I see some of the flaws but I’m counting on them being fixed.

    • hmm.. hey flux… I just made the above comment at 10:14 am MST. The sort order is off tho. My post is showing above older posts. I would expect it to be below Satheron’s post of “I am Queen Elizabeth.”.

      Something funky going on.

  28. I agree with charons – the lack of NV in nightmare/hell feels wrong after farming a bit with it at max level. I think NV should be turned on at level 30. Swapping skills in hell and nightmare should not make you lose stacks.

  29. I’m actually sad that releveling is gone. I like being able to respec for free, but I feel that if I quit with a full line of 60s, when I come back, my motivation to play with be very abrupt. I wish there was a ladder to give me a reason to relevel. Leveling my first few characters in D3 was a lot of fun, maybe as much fun as farming inferno, and aside from hardcore, I not only don’t have motivation to reroll, but I won’t have the character slots to do so.

  30. Seems Jay Wilson is somehow mind controlling flux…

    This would make me reroll in D3:

    -The option to play offline with no AH, shared stash etc
    -Realistic drops like int ONLY on wiz/WD gear, NOT mighty weapons!
    -Good legendaries thrown at me even from act bosses!
    -Lan play! Remember those days w chips/cola and no sleep for a whole weekend?

    The above will prolly never happen as noone would ever play the online version again…

  31. 1. Playing one main SC DH Inferno Act 1 – Act 2. Only bought weapons in the AH.

    2. Playing HC only one charater, Monk until I die. NO AH whatsover and I find every other session a decent upgrade in one of the slots.

    3. Along with the same HC class I level a SC one to test out the more challenging territories or bosses like Belial. Mostly at 30% less stats to see if everything is clear.

    4. Trading in the AH with selling mostly mats I find in Inferno.

    Once I have around 3 Million Gold I convert it to Real Money. Sold twice in game gold, but mostly by selling crafted advanced stars.

    Made 40+ euros in 2 months playing this way.

    It is surprising an editor of this site needed 2 months to find the real game like I play it.

    In the meantime this site has attracted a LOT of hating trolls that simply don’t play (if they ever did),

    Good luck by trying to get them of your back now…

  32. Children.

    But still very odd that some guys needed 2.5 months to know how to enjoy this game.

    They all rushed to the end game while the hardcore treasures were !just lying there waiting to be discovered.

    This is not an MMO. First law of Diablo 3.

    Now good luck in chasing away the daily visitors of hating trolls…

  33. I always liked to start over in D2. It was very exciting, doing a new build. The levels came quick and there was a lot nostalgia, how easy things were in normal and so on. You felt like you did something new, made choices, got something out of it.

    D3 doesn’t have any of it, I’m afraid.

  34. I’m looking forward to rerolling soon: I’ve been playing on my boyfriend’s account, and levelled 3 chars to Inferno for him. He’s now made enough money from the RMAH to buy me a copy of the game, so I’m going to start over with a new monk with the eventual goal of playing co-op with him in Inferno

    I’m happy to reroll because I’m trying to fight my comfort zone. I found that the first time I played a char, I would quickly get stuck in one build. Every dozen hours of play or so, I would discover some new skill from Diablo discussion, and my build would change a little bit. Other times I would discover entire builds, and I would be amazed at the creativity and intelligence of the people who designed them; I never seem to be smart enough to come up with great synergies like that. The first time I played against Belial in Inferno, post-1.03, it was horrible. I died over and over again, but each time my boyfriend and I tweaked my build, until finally, I was doing enough damage to actually kill him before the enrage timer was up.

    You might think dying over and over again would be no fun, but actually that was one of the most fun times for me. My boyfriend was there the whole time, discussing new builds with me, giving me advice, calling cooldowns, holding a kitchen timer. It was easy to see how much progress I made each time – the first time Belial enraged at half life, and every time I could see his HP lower than the last time when he enraged.

    I really enjoyed the process of trying out new skill combos. I think what prevents me from using a new build for each run is just because I’m not familiar enough with the mechanics of skills I don’t use. Those little descriptions just aren’t good enough; you need to try it out before you know how it’s going to act. And when the going gets tough, the little details of the mechanics matter a lot.

    So I’m happy to reroll, because I’m going to use my low-level time to master the mechanics of all the skills I don’t know. Maybe one day I’ll create a new build, instead of reading it about it from somewhere else. Maybe one day I’ll switch builds every time I do a run.

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