Travis Day Shares Diablo 3 Paragon 2.0 Details


Travis Day offered up a few paragraphs of detail about how the DiabloWikiParagon 2.0 system is going to work.

I’ve seen a lot of assorted questions floating about so I wanted to take a little time explaining some of the current details of the system. As always this is not completely final and is subject to change.

First let me start with the intent of the system so everyone has a bit of context. The initial implementation of the paragon system was meant to help provide players a form of end game progression. The primary end game progression is items, Diablo is all about finding awesome items and using them to murder the hordes of evil. Sometimes though you may go for a while and not find a new exciting item, paragon’s primary goal is provide you with some form of tangible benefit for killing lots of monsters even if you didn’t find new items.

The initial system accomplishes what it set out to do but unfortunately there comes a time when you have maxed out that progression and suddenly you start losing out of part of your reward for killing monsters (experience). The first change to the Paragon 2.0, removing the cap, is intended to ensure that no matter how much or how little you play you will always be earning that experience.

Click through for the moar, because long. Also, in this post or on the DiabloWikiParagon 2.0 article you can see all 16 bonuses granted by Paragon points, and the max bonus you can add to (most of) them.

The next thing that we wanted to address with paragon 2.0 is that since paragon experience was associated with a specific character it had the unfortunate side effect of making players feel more tied to a specific character than we wanted them to be. If you have a paragon 50 Wizard it makes it that much harder to convince yourself to try a new character because some people would feel like they are “wasting experience” either on the Wizard or on the new character they wanted to try out. We want the players to feel that they are being rewarded for their time investment regardless of what character they are in the mood to play or experiment with. This is the primary reason we are changing paragon levels to be account wide instead of character specific. We want people who have invested time earning paragon experience to be able to enjoy all the changes and new content the expansion introduces without having a sense of loss for “wasting paragon levels” on a character, especially since the Crusader is so awesome I expect 200% of players to just reroll 😉

Lastly, spendable points. Anyone who has played Diablo games in the past has some fond memories (or not if you ever misclicked the wrong stat) of picking how they wanted to spend their points whenever they leveled. While giving players more character customization options isn’t the core intent of the system, it did present itself as a good place to introduce the mechanic. Players already earn bonus stats, magic find, and gold find when they earn a paragon level but we thought giving players more options and letting them choose what they wanted their bonus to be was just better all around. When you gain a paragon level in the new system you will receive a paragon point to spend, what category that point can be spent in is determined by what paragon level you earn. Paragon level 1 gives you a point to spend in a core stat, Paragon 2 gives you a point in the offensive category, 3 is defensive, and 4 is utility, each level past that folows the same pattern. At present all categories other than core stats (Str, Int, Dex, Vit) have a cap on the number of points that can be allocated to them which also means there is a cap to the total number of points that 3 of the 4 categories can have. If you reach paragon 800 you will have maxed the number of points that can be allocated to the offense, defense, and utility categories and all future paragon levels will grant you a point in the core stat category.

Hopefully this covers the majority of questions that people have. While I am incredibly busy working on the expansion at present I’ll do my best to answer whatever remaining questions people have about paragon 2.0.

Refer to the DiabloWikiParagon 2.0 article in the wiki if you’ve still got questions. Nothing Travis said in this post wasn’t on that page already except for the cap at 800. Here are the four tabs and the properties you can boost via paragon points.

  • Core tab: Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence, Vitality. (Each paragon point is worth 5 to each stat, up to 250 total bonus to each.)
  • Offensive tab: Attack Speed, Critical hit Chance, Critical hit Damage, Cooldown reduction. (Maximum bonuses appear to be 10% IAS, 10% CC, 50% CD, and -10% cooldown time.)
  • Defensive tab: Increased max resource, increased resource regeneration %, All Resistance, +% Life, +% Armor, Dodge chance.
  • Adventure tab: Movement Speed, Pickup Radius, Magic Find. (No mention of Gold Find.)
  • Questions remaining:

    We do not yet know the values each point gives you in +max resource and +resource regen. It appears that those are the same field, so that a Barb would add a point and get a bonus to +max Fury *and* +Fury generation rate. One of the devs named +% blocking as one of the bonuses in a Gamescom interview, but that isn’t one of the bonus strings in the recent datamined info. We don’t know exactly which bonuses are in the Defensive and Adventure tab; MS, Pickup, and MF are definitely in Adventure, plus one of the 5 now listed in Defensive. (Though that doesn’t really matter, since you can spend your Paragon points all in the same or in a variety of different tabs. The only limit is the hardcap of 50 points per bonus field.)

    All this is subject to change during further development, of course.

    Tagged As: | Categories: Blizzard People, Blue Posts, Paragon

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    1. Doesn’t sound bad. I would love me some movement speed. The real meat will be the Loot 2.0 post.

    2. I have some mixed feelings about how the Paragon point system is going to work. It sort of reminds me of the way the skills work when not in the (all important) Elective mode, where you can only have one skill from each category. The Paragon points are forcing you to be balanced in how you spread your points, rather that let you focus on just one area – what if you really need a boost to your defenses/resistances so you can survive better at higher MP? At Paragon 40, you’d only have 10 points to boost in that section, and 10/50 pts in a category is not likely to be very significant (definitely not as good as 40/50 would be!).

      On the other hand, it does give some good short term/long term goals to keep the leveling process going…when you ding Paragon 10, you know in another 2 levels you can pump up your Movement speed again. This system reminds me quite a bit of the Badass ranks in Borderlands 2, where you got a handful of stats to upgrade and these would cycle through a range of different ones at each rank. There were diminishing returns as you pumped up specific stats but all the little bonuses would add up over time. In the end, this will definitely encourage you to continue playing. I would guess it will take a long time before anyone gets to Paragon 800.

      • I am not opposed to caps, as some stats really should be capped to avoid silliness (crit chance, cooldown reduction), but it would indeed be nice to remove the per-category restriction for low paragon levels.

        You basically won’t feel the impact of 10/50 points in every category like you would for maxing out a category, and realistically, the feeling of return for investment is very important for attribute assignment.

      • It’s a band-aid system, and they are afraid of losing control over the player and balance. Basically, they don’t want you to have fun. I’ve said it before, and I say it again. They recognize some criticism about the game, but they can’t change who they are, or what their goals are, with the game. What you get back at this stage is better than nothing, but cannot compare to if they had designed the game right from the beginning. But again, that would probably have been impossible as well, since they are not Blizzard North and apparently didn’t appreciate the previous Diablo games so much. We were bound to get something different from this team.

        Blizzard should have stuck to the system D2 had. A simple, clear, skill tree. Get your attribute and skill points from the very beginning, BUILD your character. Have attribute requirements on your items, not only character level. That will make it fun for players to encourage certain builds to equip certain items, and then a certain playstyle = satisfaction. Certain items may even have +skill points to them, making you able to boost and use certain skills, such as low level skills, and make them work for the end game. I believe D2 had the necessary stuff there, and Blizzard would have an easy task to improve on it, but not totally scrap it, as they did.

        This holding hand thing now, when everything is automatically assigned and selected for you, just isn’t fun. These enormously big DPS numbers aren’t fun. I don’t even know how they possibly could think it was fun. But then again, I am not their target audience anymore.

        • “Blizzard should have stuck to the system D2 had. A simple, clear, skill tree. Get your attribute and skill points from the very beginning, BUILD your character. Have attribute requirements on your items, not only character level. That will make it fun for players to encourage certain builds to equip certain items, and then a certain playstyle = satisfaction. Certain items may even have +skill points to them, making you able to boost and use certain skills, such as low level skills, and make them work for the end game. I believe D2 had the necessary stuff there, and Blizzard would have an easy task to improve on it, but not totally scrap it, as they did.”

          You could even have a half-way-house for that, have stats auto-assigned as we have now (to prevent people who don’t know what they’re doing from borking things up too badly), but have an elective mode that allows you to put points wherever you want to (ala D2, though we know that would only ever be main stat & vit). With this the more experienced players would be able to equip the better gear earlier (not too much earlier if items had non-main stat requirements) & have more control over their characters without going totally overboard due to the item requirements. And if they made skill points auto/manually assigned, possibly with a respec (in town for a cost possibly) you could cater to both the more & less experienced players.

        • | they don’t want you to have fun

          That’s totally untrue. Else we wouldn’t have paragon 2.0 loot 2.0 we’d just get an expansion with the same systems that they didn’t have to spend resources working on. That’s quite a cynical standpoint.

        • “Blizzard should have stuck to the system D2 had. A simple, clear, skill tree.”

          Wait, what? Where on the tree did it show you that Holy Fire was completely and utterly worthless once you beat Nightmare?

      • Being restrictive in spending P points what different between normal leveling and p leveling? both increase stat ! Only P lv grant more different stat….We need freedom in allocate the points ! the P lv should serve as a supplementary to items…

        Without AH item become very random again! P lv can help player to access certain build without proper item support. Why kill this game play experiences ?

    3. >> The next thing that we wanted to address with paragon 2.0 is that since paragon experience was associated with a specific character it had the unfortunate side effect of making players feel more tied to a specific character than we wanted them to be. <<

      And I thought being tied to a specific character is typically the driving force behind a rpg. Well, one never learns out, sharagon (, although still no supplement to a proper character system, ) still is an improvement over paragon (1.0) and the attachement to one particular character is as low as it can get already, so I guess job well done. But after this explaination I'm kinda getting the feeling of having to play the whole account strategically. I don't really know if I like this outlook…

      • That’s the side effect of the MF fix which the Paragon system addressed as well. You feel punished for playing this level 20P char, instead of your main (which is level 80 for example), because you are less likely to find legendaries.

        • Nope. I feel punished for not being able to set character development goals to reach while playing the game. Sharagon is, to a degree, a remedy there. It just defeats the purpose of a rpg to just get this 8 needed to up the strength of the DH I would like to play more often through playing the WD for a few days…

    4. From what I see in the following quote, I believe there is no paragon cap at 800.

      [quote]If you reach paragon 800 you will have maxed the number of points that can be allocated to the offense, defense, and utility categories and [b]all future paragon levels will grant you a point in the core stat category.[/b][/quote]

    5. Sad that they are only allowing points to be spent certain ways, but it is a step up from the failure of Paragon 1.0 and their lack of customizability in all regards of D3.

    6. I think he doesn’t say max plvl 800. He says after u get plv800 you can max out everything but core stats, and further plvl u can add points to stats.

    7. hmmm, the fact that there’s no gold find in the utility tab is starting to make a lot more sense now that we know they’re removing the AH.

    8. So we need to get to P40 to be able to spend 10 points in say the offensive tab. I didn’t realise that it was forcing us to go core, offensive, defensive, adventuring, core, offensive, defensive, adventuring, core… etc with each level. I guess that spreads it’s effect out and reduces focusing it in on one stat.

      • If you’re saying what I think you’re saying, I don’t think that’s how it works. You can put your first 50 points into the same bonus, if you want. The demo presentation at Gamescom had 33 points and all 33 were in Strength.

        I would actually have expected some limits and gradually-increasing caps to prevent players from unbalancing by putting all their points into one field, but that doesn’t seem to be the case.

        • “I would actually have expected some limits and gradually-increasing caps to prevent players from unbalancing by putting all their points into one field, but that doesn’t seem to be the case.”

          Given the size of some of those bonuses, they don’t look too unbalanced even at the cap. +50% CD?

          • A valid point. It’s going to be interesting when we see all the bonus maximums. But the stuff in the Core and Offensive tabs can all be equaled or exceeded by a single item with good affixes. Ironically, Magic Find might prove to be the biggest (vs. gear) quick boost. If it’s 6% per paragon point to max at 300% with 50 points, filling that at once would give you VASTLY more bonus than you could get from gear.

            • it loot 2.0 shit won’t be dropping with CD bonus of, say, in range of 50-100, and all “old” loot will very quickly (post-xpac) be moved to non-ladder, which will lack many incentives of ladder (a la d2), that;s my guess, therefore, a CF bonus of 50%, put in proper context, will be considerable, forget 400+%

        • Let me correct myself. I hadn’t read that closely on the spending the points part of Andrew’s post, and he clearly says that the points awarded will alternate between the tabs.

          “Paragon level 1 gives you a point to spend in a core stat, Paragon 2 gives you a point in the offensive category, 3 is defensive, and 4 is utility, each level past that folows the same pattern.”

          While I personally think that’s a lame system and would like the freedom to spend my points freely, it is what it is. You’ve still got the freedom to put your first 50 Core points into Str, but you’d be P197 by the time you had 50 points for the Core.

    9. I wonder… Let’s say we max out all the tabs excluding core. Does that mean that we only get benefits once every 4 levels afterwards? Or does every level after this point simply just give towards core?

      • Then you’d be P600 and at P601 you’d get another paragon point and the only place you could spent it would be in the Core tab.

        • P800 and at P801. Take some rest Flux.

          • No, he said all tabs excluding Core. So he’d be at 600 then. Not that anyone would ever actually do that, given the quality of the varying bonuses.

            It occurs to me that the worst Paragon level bonuses will be 701-800, as you’ll spend those filing out your non-mainstats with your mainstat and Vit already maxed. Reaching 801 will be a relief, since then you can resume adding to mainstat.

            • I may be wrong but… according to the blue post Vit can’t be maxed?

            • He said there is no cap at core but still it’s 4 rounds. 4×200=800 -> then you’re maxing out core, cause you max out other tabs. To precise:
              “If you reach paragon 800 you will have maxed the number of points that can be allocated to the offense, defense, and utility categories and all future paragon levels will grant you a point in the core stat category.”
              🙂 core, offense, defense, adventure, core, offense… when you’d maxed out adventure you had put 200 into core already.

              “core stats (Str, Int, Dex, Vit)” according to blue

    10. I agree with saintMek here… he doesn’t specifically say there’s a hard cap on the paragaon level system, just that at level 800 you will have maxed all other tabs and options besides the attribute one, which I still believe can go on indefinitely.

      I aboslutely love the sytem, and I am sure that with time and through patches, it will only get better!

      Can’t wait for that loot 2.0 blog! 😀

    11. Blizzard really is control freaks 🙂
      Get skills in a predetermined order.
      Get points in a pre-determined order.

      If they just want people to split out the points, why not have tiers/breakpoints.
      Like: You cant have a difference of more than 10 (or whatever) points spent between the highest and lowest category

    12. Blizzard, the band-aid company. Why does everything they come up with feels so forced? I think they should all run for congress.

      The whole paragon system is another useless mechanic. It still has nothing to do with building a character since you can reset the point distribution as you please.

      • Not only that; characters will inevitably look the same again. 800 is the new goal, only the road to it will differ slightly between characters. This is still exactly the same like before, this is not character building and specialization. This is not Diablo. I’m not buying this crap.

        • Though to be fair, in D1 once you’d hit the cap for each stat, your characters were the same (gear notwithstanding).

          • One of the points why I’m saying that D3 is the new D1, but no real successor to D2. (Main point still is the driving philosophy behind the game, which is as “this would be cool to have” as it was with D1, while in D2 you can see at every corner that the driving question behind development was “how to reflect this particular rpg-principle gamewise?”)

    13. WTF you say? There in NO limit of Paragon level!

      After you hit Paragon 800 you still earn exp, but you can only spend Paragon points to Core stats after you hit Paragon 800.

    14. by the look of things, i see one important issue:

      The loss of gained stats from the day para 2.0 is implemented. A paragon 1.0 level 100 char have gained 300 mainstat, 200 vit and 100 other stats. Now, by the looks of things, these “gained” stats will be reset (because otherwise it wouldnt be accountwide and will penalize new characters). This comes as an actual loss, because, at the moment you get 7 statpoints per paragon level, in para 2.0 you get max 5 every 4th “round”. While mainstat can be replaced with other offensive stats and additional stats are not that important, the loss of vitality will hurt definetely. many people take vitality for granted and actually gear up so, that on higher paragon levels they sacrifice vitality for dps. 200 gained “vit” lost is a major downgrade.

    15. I’m not sure I consider “+max resource” and “+resource generation” defensive stats. They feel more offensive to me. Since pretty much all defensive abilities, except for the DH, has a big cool down and a pretty moderate costs, increasing resources pretty much always generate a higher dmg output, not defense. I rather see CD reduction as a defensive stat if anything but I guess that will be used primarily for offensive purposes, even if it boosts pretty much every defensive skill in the game.

      I think they should move “resource generation” to offensive. Remove “+max resource” and add “+% healing” to defensive which will increase healing from all sources (globes/pots/life on hit/skills etc).

      I think they removed “%block” because it doesn’t benefit all characters. It would be like adding “+ dmg with swords”. All other abilities are good for any character except for “CD reduction” maybe.

      It feels like only want the core of the core stats here. All the crazy stuff will come from runes and legendary affixes.

      • I would say all those are utility stats, they can benefit both offense and defense. It doesn’t really matter though. 🙂

      • Agree. My Diamond Skin and Frost Nova are purely for defensive purpose. But also agreed with HardRock it sounds more like utility and it does not really matter.

    16. I dont like the idea of shared points between characters. Presuming that PVP Arena will go live in the future and it will be an ultimate test for loot and skills player has, it means that I’d have to max out all characters instead of focusing on one I truly enjoy.

      • You’re end up with the same amount of exp either you play with one char or all 5/6 same period of time. So you can focus on one if you want to and not lose anything because of that.

    17. The most important thing will be maxing out everything in the “Adventure” Tab.
      That means you need P150? Or less?

    18. I’m a bit disappointed that they restrict the spending of points even more. I mean there will already be caps on the single stats you can improve, so I see no real reason why someone with e.g. paragon 20 can’t be allowed to spend 12-13 of those points in movement speed in order to get rid of lacunis or whatever…

    19. I doubt I’ll ever get to Paragon level 800 when there will be ladders and I will start playing fresh every reset.

    20. QUOTE

      It's a band-aid system, and they are afraid of losing control over the player and balance. Basically, they don't want you to have fun. I've said it before, and I say it again. They recognize some criticism about the game, but they can't change who they are, or what their goals are, with the game. What you get back at this stage is better than nothing, but cannot compare to if they had designed the game right from the beginning.
      i agree. which goes to show you how important it is to have the right people in place because there are no guarantees in game development. although, the marketing blitzkrieg for these AAA gamed would have you believe otherwise.  
      
      Blizzard really is control freaks. Get skills in a predetermined order.Get points in a pre-determined order.
      they're afraid baby might choke. i wonder if RoS CE comes with a bib?
       

      http://i.imgur.com/KlrurLA.jpg

    21. there should be a cap on every category, otherwise we’ll have every char pumped up and with all maxed out in the same manner. no-one should be able to max out everything. too many points to spend for each cat. and not enough points per plvl.

    22. QUOTE

      Testing new comment system

      From what I can tell, I doesn’t work. Cannot get to the comments from the main page. Cannot get to the comments from the main page even after logging in. Only got here by going to the Forums and finding this thread.

    23. “except for the cap at 800”
      It’s not really a cap, that’s just when the three capped tabs are all capped out. Paragon and Core Stats keep going.

      “Core tab: Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence, Vitality. (Each paragon point is worth 5 to each stat, up to 250 total bonus to each.)”
      Core Stats aren’t capped anymore. They keep going forever.

      “since you can spend your Paragon points all in the same or in a variety of different tabs. The only limit is the hardcap of 50 points per bonus field.”
      No, each point is unlocked for a specific tab. First Core, then Off, then Def, then Util, then round again. So you have to spend a quarter of your points in each tab (up to the point you max out the three non-Core tabs.)

      With all due respect, Flux, did you actually read Travis’ post? Clearly things have changed since the Gamescom demo.

    24. Reading all the comments makes me think that some ppl underestimates the amount of time it will take to become p800 in the new system.

      If it is anything like the old system, the exp for gaining 1 level doubles with every 20 levels you gain. If I’m not mistaken, this means that reaching p200 would take 5 times as much exp as reaching p100. This is where p500 accounts today will be once new system goes live. Further on, reaching p300 would take same time as 25 p100 characters and reaching p400 is equal to 125 p100 characters.

      Well, this is not really true since we will gain more exp in RoS. The new act will probably increase the exp gained quite a lot. So maybe we will gain exp twice as fast in RoS. Still, that’s 75 p100 characters to reach p400. That would take the most hardcore guys 7.5 years to reach.

      Maybe they will tune the current exp curve in some way or another. But the system have to work in a very similar fashion.

      • because para levels are shared between characters it probably makes more sense to have a more linear increase (or it could have some diminishing returns for the total para levels you have). Otherwise there will be some sweetspot where everyone runs 25 characters till plevel 20 (or so) since that is the theoretical best paragon / time.

    25. any word on what happens to paragon portraits? do we all get the 100 paragon portrait when we surpass 100?

    26. The new act will probably increase the exp gained quite a lot.
      Hopefully the level cap will take care of that. We don’t want a retread of only 1 act being giving any real amount of reward.

    27. This Restriction sucks!!
      It sucks big time!!
      Forcing to spend points in a Category/Skill is just plain stupid. In the End, every Class ist the same again(naked) and only the Corestats differs.
      Why don’t they use this System to give us the Freedom to create different Builds with Parasheet 2.0.
      Why don’t they use Caps like: U can spend only 50 Points in Categorie X instead of “in the end they are all maxed” :/
      Or another possibility would be: Spend 50 Points in + Critchance reduce the Cap of Attackspeed to 20-25.
      This System could be much deeper than: Congratiolations…you reached Paralvl 600…u can only spend 1 Point in Nosediggin’, becaues the other awesome Skills are full and we don’t like u to spend it on a good skill” 🙁

      Flux…do something….kick their ass, i think Blizz do something really stupid again!

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