Travis Day Returns with Clarifications and More Details


Travis Day returned this morning to follow up yesterday’s bombshell news about Reaper of Souls legendary items and drop rates. The main misconception about his remarks yesterday is that there’s some timer that controls how often you get legendary drops, and he takes an axe to that right at the start, before addressing exploiting, another big question from yesterday.

Hey folks I’m back with some clarifications and some news that should please everyone.

First the clarification, the timer system that works behind the scenes is meant to be exactly that, behind the scenes. No you can’t afk the system, there are a lot of moving pieces to it and we talked about it extensively before we implemented it to guarantee its not exploitable. At it’s heart Diablo is a game about slaughtering demons and getting random cool rewards. The system that is in place should never be experienced by 99% of the population, it’s there for the 1% who just get really bad random rolls for an excessively long period of time. If we want you to get a legendary every 2 hours, the system basically says “ok it’s been like double/triple that period of time, just help the guy out!”

Second and more importantly. I’m in the process of working up another hotfix for the beta that will do 2 things.

1. Reduce the chance for Kadala to give legendary items. We have a lot of solutions to the split farming problem but they are going to take a little time to be put in place and in the mean time we don’t want peoples feedback to be completely skewed based on her rewards. This reduction will be revisited once we fix all the split farming issues.

2. Double the legendary drop rate. Your feedback hasn’t been falling on deaf ears, and much discussion and deliberation has gone into it. We know that drop rates aren’t exactly where we want them right now and it’s very important to us to get as much feedback as possible during our beta. We are going to adjust the legendary drop rates via hotfix so that you guys have as much time as possible to test and give us feedback on how the changes feel, also more time for us to compile data and get RoS to be the best it can be.

And they doubled it!

Anecdotes from limited sample sizes are useless for larger statistical crunching, but just to give you guys who aren’t in the RoS beta some idea of recent events… I’ve played about 8 hours since the patch, mostly on Hard or Expert in multiplayer games (while testing/exploiting the new Infernal Machine) and have found 5 legendary items in that time. (And made 5 Hellfire Rings, which salvage into Forgotten Souls and thanks to the 100% key/organ drop rate that’s by far the fastest way to obtain that essential legendary material.)

Over the same time I’ve gambled about 600 Shards, 5 at a time all on 1H weapons, without scoring a single set or legendary item that way. (I didn’t find anywhere near 600 shards in that time; I had ~400 when the patch went live last week.)

The best strategy once the hotfix goes live will continue to be split farming (where multiple players in the same game split up to do different bounties which share their rewards to everyone in the game), though reducing the legendary rate from gambling will make that slightly less valuable. (Since doing Bounties is where you rack up Shards.)


Update: Players have been asking if the hotfixes are live yet. They are *not*, as of early Friday morning, Blizzard time, with “doubled legendary drop rate” still listed as an upcoming hotfix for RoS beta and the D3 PTR. The fixes should go in for testing sometime Friday, assuming technical difficulties can be avoided.

[UPCOMING HOTFIXES]

  • Legendary drop rates from monsters have been doubled.*
  • Legendary drop rates from Kadala have been decreased.*
  • [LIVE HOTFIXES]

  • Rift Guardians now drop Blood Shards and have a chance to drop Forgotten Souls for level 61+ players.*
  • Monster damage has been increased across all levels.*
  • Splash damage will no longer unintentionally proc certain powers.*
  • Hellfire plans no longer cost Blood Shards and should now cost gold.
  • Monster density in Act I has been adjusted.
  • An issue where crafting certain items caused the server to crashed has been resolved.
  • Resolved an issue where the proc from Odyn Son could proc from itself.
  • Lorath Nahr no longer has a vendor list.
  • An error will no longer occur when crafting Archon items.
  • The combat AI for NPCs has received an optimization pass.

  • Update #2: The increased legendary drop rates have been hotfixed in as of Friday afternoon. You’ll be entirely green and orange in no time, now.

    Tagged As: | Categories: Blizzard People, Legendary Items, Loot 2.0

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    1. I hope this legendary drop chance increase won’t fail 🙂

      If it does , then blizzard might trade mark “Doubled it” along side “Soon” 🙂

      • Yeah but i also hope people don’t expect to find a legendary every freaking 5 minutes, it suppouse to need some little grind/farm to get them, YES i agree, atm it sucks, but i hope we don’t get close to F&F drop rate.

        • I’m sorry. I played Diablo 2. With a proper character build and equipment load out I expect to be able to find a legendary/set items every 5 minutes. For that matter, when doing targeted runs I expect to find several legendary/set items every 3 minutes or less.

          • Diablo 2: LOD was/is one of the best games of all time, ever. Legendaries and sets dropped like rain. Why is it that Blizzard is trying to make this somehow less, different, moderated, resulting in a less fun game? It makes no sense. Why are they trying to big-brother the drop rates? Why? I don’t understand it. There is no reasoning behind it. If you want to sell more Diablo 3, make the game a loot pinata like Diablo 2 was. Make so many legendaries and set items, of all levels, and make them drop like in Diablo 2 when we pumped up our MF%. Instead of that, they moderate, regulate, control, enclose, and limit. None of which is fun.

          • Yeah, it worked on D2, but it doesn’t need to follow the same rule to succeed, I have no problem loggin to D3X, playing for 1-2 hours, leveling up a paragon level (since they are fixing up the exp in the next patch) and getting a couple of amazing legendaries…There are many things that you can do in d3/d3x that you cant do in D2, like crafting legedaries, just as an example, so yeah, similar game, same franchise, not the same thought.

            If you can’t let D2 go, either go back to it or try that PoE shit.

      • As fun as it may sound, after testing the PTR for a few hours, my exact impression is that they should at least double the drop rates.

        I mentioned it a month ago – proof: http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?850966-Reaper-of-Souls-Beta-Patch-Changes-Economy-and-Loot-2-1&p=8586217&viewfull=1#post8586217

        🙂

        It’s fun to tell them – take the drop rate and double it… – but it was the truth. Before the nerf, maybe 75% would be ok, but with the reduced chance of getting good items (goog torment stuff), 100% became the minimum.

        I’ll test the PTR again when hotfix goes live, but it should be fine now, imo.

        (But yeah, they should def. TM “doubled it”)

    2. God i truely HATE the idea of split farming, thank god they will try to fix it, hopefuly before the game goes live.

    3. Good change.
      And who said whining never does anything good? 😛

      No doubt that Split farming has stop be fixed.
      Presumably Rifts will give shards too.

      I think Rift bosses should have a greatly increased chance for legendary drops though. Letting Gambling currency be the reward for doing Rifts is still a screwed up reward concept.

    4. As a PTR only player I really hope this hotfix addresses the bad lvl 60 item rolls. Right now PTR players cant really play because all rares roll:

      No core stats
      -lvl req
      all res
      bonus to skill dmg
      socket

      The only way to get a core stat is to craft an item that forces it. I appreciate this doesn’t affect RoS players for some reason however that just makes it twice as painful for those of us who didn’t get in.

    5. ~1 legendary per hour seems a lot more reasonable. I wonder if the increased drop rate will affect the timer system, though.

    6. Poor HardRock. He’s going to be be crushed that us filthy ungrateful peons are corrupting the Devs’ glorious vision of what “fun” is.

      p.s. Captcha = “sun is shining”

      • Wow, my first fan. I expected better but I’ll take you in.

        Seriously though, I’m actually delighted about this change, since like many other I wasn’t happy about the Legendary drop rates. Just today I said that doubling it would be fine. Could it be that I really am Jay Wilson?

    7. Honestly, I’d be happy with one every 2 hours. I play self found, so my gear is all built around doing the most damage and staying alive, with very little room for magic find. Still, at paragon level 63, I have a decent amount naturally, especially once I get 5 NV stacks. Still, I’m excited if I get a leg/set every 4 or 5 hours. Usually it is more like one every 8-10 hours. So I’m excited for Loot 2.0 whatever they decide to do, because it will be an increase for me.

    8. QUOTE

      Good change. And who said whining never does anything good? :P

      lulz..yeah, that was awesome. wow, it didn’t take long for him to get beat down into pander mode after all the tough talk yesterday. when will these CM and devs learn to stop testing the salty mob. you cannot win against them. the mob is more broken than CE bison, ST akuma, MvC2 sentinel and all the SNK bosses put together. they are SSS+++ God Tier.
      http://thegamebakers.com/bossfights/godhand_azel/godhand_azel_03.gif

    9. “We looked for the easiest solution to this complex issue, and we doubled it. (literally)”

      • What would you have done?

        • He would continue to whine passive aggressively and deliberately miss the point of anything that doesn’t allow him to whine.

        • He would have kept posting useful, constructive feedback

        • I would have payed more attention to, and focused on what a fun item system truly is, and looked closer to why people are dissatisfied with the existing item system / item hunt, instead of continually bandaid-fixing a clearly broken system rather than actually fixing it from the ground up, and calling it an evolution.

          It is a system that is a re-dressed version of the same failed philosophies on itemization that Blizzard refuses to learn from.

          Not only is “Loot 2.0” not an improvement over 1.0, it is a lazy and un-thoughtful system that instead of being the centerpiece of RoS, has again taken a backseat and became an after-thought that is now starting to unravel after just a few weeks of testing. It is the exact same fallacy as D3 vanilla, and these devs continue to prove that they do not learn from their mistakes.

          Am I angry? Yes. I am angry because Blizzard are living on another planet, where they truly believe that its not their fault that people don’t like itemization in Diablo 3, but rather it is somehow the communities fault for “never being satisfied”. This is why they refuse to actually make any meaningful changes, because in their minds the item-system is “awesome! SMASHHHH!!11”. I’m sick of it, and it’s wrong. I just want them to take some god-damn responsibility for their failure to produce a fun and interesting item system, rather than pushing it back as “we can’t satisfy everyone.”

          • I dont think they are living on another planet, they are now very down earth, they looked upon Diablo 3 and realised that its a broken product beyond any repair. Hence why the band-aid fixes, its just a little bone to try to please the masses *Look folks! We doubled the drop rates!*.

            D3 is an amazing accident in gamming design, its the kind of thing that gets by because its such a huge brand by a huge company but its one of most misdesigned games ever made and the naive community thought things would be better with their post-launch fixes.

            When… it is not worse than vanilla but its a much more confused and schizofrenic creature now. What the hell does the dev wants to achieve? The game’s core wasnt built to create a diverse, complex and fun itemzation, the mechanics are way too barebones and limiting to do that, and there isnt content or character customization deep enough to allow more replayability yet the Dev team tries to ammend its gaping wounds with small hello-kitty bandaids.

            Itemzation will NEVER be interesting, it will always be this stat-stick boredom, no wonder they had to throw the towel and create something as Smart Drops. Yes Smart drops is the devs saying “I Give up on a solution to fix mainstat!” Also the new legendary affixes are mostly just extra talent perks for a specific skill, most of the legendaries are so specific that its a wonder they had the balls to make them all BoA, there will be lots of people finding an item they never wanted but the other person wanted, and vice-versa.

            Its out of the realm of reality to believe that they are clueless, they arent, its just that Diablo is the redhead stepchild of their franchises, and now there is no reason to rescue Diablo 3 from the abyss that they took 7 years to dig, its an arcade game now, If that was the idea all along why didnt they at least made it more fun? Its like Castle Crashers, Gauntlet Legends 64, without all the fun.

            And whoever is left playing approves it so it has found its niche, I believe I saw somewhere people saying that complex and interesting itemzation would detract from the monster slaying because poeple would have to think on which item to use, so whoever is left playing it likes this… thing… that is Diablo 3, an monster slaying simulator, thats all the matters, Travis Day even said it.

    10. “We looked for the easiest solution to this complex issue, and we doubled it. (literally)”

      Why not? The “we double it” moto worked for Vannilla inferno right?

    11. This is just….sad.

      Diablo 3’s itemization, and every other system for that matter, is so bad, so linear, that they basically have to guarantee a legendary drop every X amount of time. Why? Because the system is so boring, the mechanics are so one dimensional (primary stat + vit), that the hopes of getting anything interesting are pretty much nil. So they have to guarantee a legendary just to buoy our interest. Sad. No, pathetic. Just another example of Blizzard using 100 yards of dental floss to stop a bleeding wound, when a trip to the pharmacy to pick up some non stick gauze and some medical tape would do the job 1000X better. Blizzard just doesn’t want to get off their a$$es and fix the problem the right way. So what we get left with is garbage. If non primary stats had been buffed, this wouldn’t be necessary. If all spell power wasn’t tied to weapon damage, this wouldn’t be necessary. If gear gave +skill affixes, this wouldn’t be necessary. If character development wasn’t on rails, this wouldn’t be necessary.

    12. Diablo 3’s itemization, and every other system for that matter, is so bad, so linear, that they basically have to guarantee a legendary drop every X amount of time. Why? Because the system is so boring, the mechanics are so one dimensional (primary stat + vit), that the hopes of getting anything interesting are pretty much nil. So they have to guarantee a legendary just to buoy our interest. Sad. No, pathetic. Just another example of Blizzard using 100 yards of dental floss to stop a bleeding wound, when a trip to the pharmacy to pick up some non stick gauze and some medical tape would do the job 1000X better. Blizzard just doesn’t want to get off their a$$es and fix the problem the right way. So what we get left with is garbage. If non primary stats had been buffed, this wouldn’t be necessary. If all spell power wasn’t tied to weapon damage, this wouldn’t be necessary. If gear gave +skill affixes, this wouldn’t be necessary. If character development wasn’t on rails, this wouldn’t be necessary.

      You are 100% right SteveG, but this ship has sailed, those design choices cant be changed at this point. It would have to be a new game, maybe only on a Diablo 4, if Blizzard cares to do it (if the brand ever recovers from this).

    13. QUOTE

      Poor HardRock.  He's going to be be crushed that us filthy ungrateful peons are corrupting the Devs' glorious vision of what "fun" is.
      
      p.s. Captcha = "sun is shining"
      Praise the Sun!
      • True Diablo fans don’t like the bright object in the sky that should not be named. It’s not dark and gothic enough.

        • dark souls gothic enough for ya?

          as sadistic that game is, is holds 10x more appeal to me than d3 in its current state. here’s hoping that a miracle happens until release.

          • Making game apealing (difficult) because of poor controls is rather sad. Nonetheless the game’s fun and I’m surprised that it had so big succes. They were not so lucky with Armored Core, though.

            • it’s just that sometimes, less (monsters, loot, forgiveness) is more.

              now I’m not an advocate for dark souls over d3, just that I prefer ds or poe over d3 live.

    14. Please bring magic find back… I get to choose if I want gold find or bonus exp or killing speed or ehp but Magic find? – no way!

      Kiroptus said in part what I’m feeling. I don’t want it to tell me what to equip…. I want to choose and sort it out myself. I dislike the smart drops and the removal of magic find… Its all BoA anyway, let me turn off smart drops or choose what I want to equip.

    15. The timer has always been there…

      Here’s my comment about legendary drop rates after a patch, 1.5 years ago.

      htt p://diablo.incgamers.com/blog/comments/blizzard-on-random-drops-and-nasty-keywardens/comment-page-1#comment-93614

      —————– QUOTE ————–

      Permaximum
      October 21, 2012 at 10:09

      “Although I hate Blizzard and Diablo 3, I have to say this decreased drops are definetely related to RNG (I don’t play D3 but read your words on this issue).

      I also don’t know the patch notes but Blizzard probably increased the drop chance. When this happens, RNG (not random in fact) quickly tries to “normalize” the drops you got in your “total play time”.

      E.G: Before the patch you got 48 legendaries (probably a number between something like 40-60) in 500 hours. With the addition of the newest patch and increased drop rates, RNG concludes that you should have gotten at least 50-75 in your total play time. Then it quickly rewards you with 2 legendaries in a small amount of time. Think it like you got unlucky for a huge amount of time and then RNG smiles on you and gives a lot better loot. Then it normalizes again.

      If Blizzard increases drop rates in the future again, it’ll be the same (for people that played the game A LOT)”

      —————END QUOTE——————

      If devs didn’t read a 1.5-year old comment and suddenly decided to go with this approach, it has always been the case.

      I can smell post-WoW Blizzard’s approach on game design from a mile away.

    16. Blizzard just uses this tactic because if it’s anything less, players don’t really notice. You don’t really “feel” anything less than a drastic increase like this.

      If they increased it 33% or 50%, it might as well be zero. Or if they don’t double it, they get stuck in a cycle of increasing it by 10% every few days. Would be impossible to gather any meaningful feedback or data from that kind of constant tuning.

      • I’m fairly sure they gather drop data from every player. It’s one of the perks of running an online game. It would help with the development so it would be a wasted opportunity to not do it.

        You’re right though, more personal feedback would probably show that small increases would go almost entirely unnoticed.

        • To be honest, they could have just said they were doubling it and then just bumped it 33% and people would have *STILL* noticed it ‘doubling’.

      • Or, it might be that there are actual bugs in the drop-rate code and they should investigate them first.

    17. Fantastic news!

      Even though I am with manner cookie on this, in believing that the drop rather are pretty much where they should be, considering this is a really low-scale beta, and no farm routes / efficient builds / OP gear has been dicovered yet… I am happy about the doubling of the drop chances for legs and sets!

      Flux, would love an update LIVE as soon as the hotfix hits!
      Got a friend’s beta account ready, and I want to find some shinies! =)

    18. I forget who said it (I think it was on this board), that at its core, this game is a short, fun console game; a game you play, you beat, you put away. Embrace it. You’ve killed trading, you may as well make it a short single player game. Loot rains from the sky! Super legendaries for all! Be honest, Blizzard. You had a decent model for long term profitability and constant game updates, but you’re abandoning it. So forget about long-term health. Screw it. Just make it a short but sweet experience, then crank out another free to play tablet game.

      • “Loot rains from the sky! Super legendaries for all!”

        This change is based on player feedback, it isn’t exactly Blizzards idea. Blame the community instead.

    19. F*** legendary items 😀
      I don’t care about drop rates. I am more concerned that they look only towards legendary equipment. Too linear 🙁

    20. I never thought a game could completely exist of pure band-aid, but yet we are here. This game is like a mummy, long dead inside, and held together only by the wrappings around it.

    21. Maybe this has been discussed, and I’ve just not seen it – but to me the difference between D3 and D2 comes down to Pavlov and his dogs.

      D2 made brilliant use of a “Variable ratio schedule”, meaning that at some random point killing the next monster would give you a legendary. This is what Casinos use to make Slot Machines addictive. If you want to hook someone on a behavior, make them think the next time they do something they’ll “win.” Just one more click…

      D3 seems to prefer the idea of “Variable interval” drops. In other words, after some amount of time (now apparently an hour) you get something. That’s great if an hour is your threshold. But if you need a faster “fix” you’re going to be disappointed.

      I don’t see a lot of difference in game play between the two games, what I see is a completely different philosophy when it comes to using psychology to motivate gamers.

      • “after some amount of time (now apparently an hour) you get something. That’s great if an hour is your threshold. But if you need a faster “fix” you’re going to be disappointed.”

        That’s how this works. For example, let’s say that every enemy has a 0.1% chance of dropping a Legendary. If you don’t get one after a set amount of time has passed the game will increase this drop chance to 0.2%, then to 0.3% and so forth. You can still get a Legendary with every kill, but the chance of that happening will start to increase (not necessarily up to 100%) if you get unlucky.

        • Le sigh. I meant to say “That’s not how this works.” 🙂

        • People are blowing a tiny but interesting mechanic to guard against unwanted statistical extremes way out of proportion. It’s like criticizing a high wire circus act because you don’t like the safety net…

    22. The combat AI for NPCs has received an optimization pass.

      Great, Cain won’t die now?

    23. QUOTE

      Maybe this has been discussed, and I've just not seen it - but to me the difference between D3 and D2 comes down to Pavlov and his dogs.  
      
      D2 made brilliant use of a "Variable ratio schedule", meaning that at some random point killing the next monster would give you a legendary.  This is what Casinos use to make Slot Machines addictive.  If you want to hook someone on a behavior, make them think the next time they do something they'll "win."  Just one more click...
      
      D3 seems to prefer the idea of "Variable interval" drops.  In other words, after some amount of time (now apparently an hour) you get something.  That's great if an hour is your threshold.  But if you need a faster "fix" you're going to be disappointed.  
      
      I don't see a lot of difference in game play between the two games, what I see is a completely different philosophy when it comes to using psychology to motivate gamers.

      You’re misinterpreting what the “timer” really means.

    24. Just to clarify, since it seems that people are misunderstanding how the ‘timer’ system works, it does not invalidate the D2 drop method. The D2 method of ‘every kill has a chance at getting you the money drop’ is still firmly in place. What the ‘timer’ system does is give you an increased chance of getting the money drop after you’ve gone for a long period of time without one. The devs have set a time frame for when they want you to be getting leg/set drops; the ‘timer’ system functions by saying ‘if you’ve gone that long and still can’t get a drop, we’ll start helping you out.’ Obviously it won’t be that simply, because just a timer is easily exploitable: TD said in the post on main page that the system should not be exploitable just by waiting in-game for a while. Still, though, the point is not that the system enforces drops based on how much time it took you to get the last one, it’s that the game has an average length of time it expects you to go without a drop, and if it takes longer than that for you to get your drop, the drop rate will start ticking up to help you get that drop. Basically, from what I understand, it’s an anti-frustration feature.

      For a real-life example, this seems to me to be like how Japanese arcades work. I’ve been to Japan twice: once when I was 12, and once three years ago, both times for two months living in Kyoto. In a Japanese arcade, there are games like the Claw Game where you hook a prize, except that in Japan, you have to use the claw to push a box into a hole. If you can get the box in the hole, then the store manager comes, resets the game, and gives you the prize. However, if you keep failing and keep playing, the manager will often come and reposition the box to make it easier for you to get it. When I was there at 12, my little sister really wanted a blanket with a popular Anime figure on it, which was the prize, and dad said he’d get it for her no matter the cost. After he spent $10 on the game, the manager repositioned the box until dad won the prize.

      This seems to be how the new ‘timer’ system works. If you get a leg/set drop (win the prize) within a reasonable amount of time, then nothing changes. If, however, the RNG screws you over, the drop rate will start ticking up to help you get it, the same way the manager repositions the box when you keep trying and failing to win the game.

    25. QUOTE

      Making game apealing (difficult) because of poor controls is rather sad.
       lulz.. but the game's controls aren't designed to make the game difficult. OTOH, the best controls in the world can't compensate for a player's poor execution skills and YOLO playstyle.  
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_6gLD5DgJI
      Nonetheless the game's fun and I'm surprised that it had so big succes. They were not so lucky with Armored Core, though.
      i'm not surprised. DeS came out before DS and had very good sales as well. good things can happen when game companies aren't desperate to sell copies because they spent the equivalent GDP of a small island nation on game development and marketing. maybe it'll happen for blizz one day.
      
      http://abload.de/img/1384480422412bkdsa.gif
    26. QUOTE

      Am I angry? Yes. I am angry because Blizzard are living on another planet, where they truly believe that its not their fault that people don't like itemization in Diablo 3, but rather it is somehow the communities fault for "never being satisfied". This is why they refuse to actually make any meaningful changes, because in their minds the item-system is "awesome! SMASHHHH!!11". I'm sick of it, and it's wrong. I just want them to take some god-damn responsibility for their failure to produce a fun and interesting item system, rather than pushing it back as "we can't satisfy everyone."

      Why do you keep insisting they’re blaming the community when they have never, ever done this? And more than that, why are you ignoring the times they have repeatedly at this point said that, yes, they screwed up the items the first and are trying to fix it?

    27. Why do you keep insisting they’re blaming the community when they have never, ever done this? And more than that, why are you ignoring the times they have repeatedly at this point said that, yes, they screwed up the items the first tome around and are trying to fix it? That you don’t like their attempted solution is no reason to pretend they’re saying or doing things that they’re not.

      Why are you feeling so sorry for them?

    28. QUOTE

      Why are you feeling so sorry for them?

      I don’t, I just think if you’re gonna blame them for something, blame them for something they actually did, not made up stuff.

    29. Tuning something by 100% means you have no freaking idea what are you doing, which after a year, is sad.

      • Unless you are trying to find an acceptable range in a beta test, which is admittedly what the devs were doing.

        • Yup. It’s a common tuning technique – go one extreme, see how it feels, then go the other extreme, see how that feels, then start working towards the sweet spot in the middle.

    30. “I don’t see a lot of difference in game play between the two games”

      That is exactly the problem i think for the devs, too.
      Since the perception was that everyone in d2 does mf boss runs all the time and thus is showered with rare and unique items, now we all do boss runs in d3 with every elite group, all the time, and live in the world only a part of the players lived in, desensitized to all but legendary drops even if the item system would be ok, which it isnt.

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